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Yes or No. A question for experienced players.

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Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2086	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:16:00 - [1] - Quote Just an honest question, yes or no will be fine. If you had to start at 500k SP and play vs full proto squads of CRONOS, IMPs, PFBHz, RofL, EoN etc, would you bother, even once all the bugged skills etc are "fixed". No.
Rynoceros One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 49	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:18:00 - [2] - Quote Yes. 100x
Terram Nenokal BetaMax. CRONOS. 158	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:18:00 - [3] - Quote Yes, but I would be inclined to try to join one of them so I can be a part of the stomping. So... No?
Aisha Ctarl The Vanguardians Orion Empire 47	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:19:00 - [4] - Quote Terram Nenokal wrote: Yes, but I would be inclined to try to join one of them so I can be a part of the stomping. So... No? Pretty much this.
IamI3rian OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:19:00 - [5] - Quote Can't get better if you don't play people who're better than you are.
Sentient Archon Red Star. EoN. 1238	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:19:00 - [6] - Quote If I were experienced yes. The noobs don't stand a chance though.
DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 223	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:19:00 - [7] - Quote Yeah.. I don't ***** out of stuff,
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 272	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:23:00 - [8] - Quote I've been here since the E3 build so I've gotten used to rampant pub stomping and have taken part in it myself. I'll go through the grinder for sp/isk. But a new player who has never played (or heard of) Dust/Eve? I doubt they'll stick around for very long. IamI3rian wrote: Can't get better if you don't play people who're better than you are. Most new players I've brought to Dust don't mind a RL skill disparity, it's the huge gear disparity that pisses them off. No skill/sp reset is going to fix it, only matchmaking options and militia-only battles.
LeCuch Red Star. EoN. 68	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:24:00 - [9] - Quote I would. Not on this account because my K/D would plummit but if i had to make a new character sure, why not?
Mocha Biscotti Red Star. EoN. 16	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:25:00 - [10] - Quote Honestly I think they need to do an SP grouping divide for non corp matches. Y'know: Newbie tier: 500k-1mill exct... If you get a party with 1 newbie and the rest are high gear, you still get matched with high gear so pub stomp system can't be manipulated. I get the adapt or die mentality, but, how can we adapt if the game is dead from no new players?

Buster Friently Rosen Association 380	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:27:00 - [11] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Just an honest question, yes or no will be fine. If you had to start at 500k SP and play vs full proto squads of CRONOS, IMPs, PFBHz, RofL, EoN etc, would you bother, even once all the bugged skills etc are "fixed". No. Yes, but I would be on the forums complaining that there's no matchmaker and no pve. CCP, get to it - matchmaker ASAP, no really, ASAP! Pve in the next build, no excuses.
Ranger SnakeBlood OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 137	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:39:00 - [12] - Quote Probably not to be honest there is a massive gap today in gear which is amplified by the vets knowing the core game better and having back up 80% of the time, sure one could argue the vets has more skill while that is true the fact that they have better stats does not help the new player from feeling helpless against people who hit harder, take more punishment and know the ins and outs of the game. Then the few that come on here to give feed back get the answer "GET GOOD" and the likes and generally trolled out of it, i know welcome to new eden and all that implies, but at least in eve there are ways to develop you character with out going up against all the massive alliance fleets out in null that is currently how dust is
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 591	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:41:00 - [13] - Quote Matters more to me to have a good community to be a part of. All other things being equal it wouldn't impact me staying/going. Even if things did start off equal, there are always tons of people who will no-life a game. I played FFXI, I've seen people wait for days to get a ~3% chance at a meh item IF they can claim the mob. But they can't because a secret society of japanese people could magically predict spawn location and time and would take it instantly. Not an exaggeration. Yet people still sat and waited. You ever come in at level 1 on a game where no-lifers got no-lifed? An incredibly fun game despite that since it required a lot of skill to play, and as the community shrank it meant your name was better known and if you sucked you wouldn't get parties.
BMSTUBBY KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 195	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:46:00 - [14] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Just an honest question, yes or no will be fine. If you had to start at 500k SP and play vs full proto squads of CRONOS, IMPs, PFBHz, RofL, EoN etc, would you bother, even once all the bugged skills etc are "fixed". No. No, I do not think new players will be sticking around for very long. Although the way CCP has F-ed this game up I do not see Vets sticking around much longer either. It may give new players a chance.
The Goram Batman Forgotten Militia 24	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:48:00 - [15] - Quote I think introducing a PvE element would help to alleviate the gear disparity. If the newbies could hop in on some PvE, get some SP and learn the game mechanics/workings of setting up a fit before getting pub stomped by bitter DUST vets, then maybe more players would take an interest in DUST, and the gear disparity won't be as bad. Plus, if the newbie can manage to find a group to run with on some PvE, then they can learn even more, and before you know it they'll be part of the pub stompers. But I digress. To answer your question, yes. Personally, going against people that are much more higher geared than me in a low SP character helps improve my gun game. Plus I always enjoy a good challenge, even if I'm getting completely and horribly roflstomped.
Jin Robot Polar Gooks 414	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:49:00 - [16] - Quote Short answer yes, why not. But the real answer to this is a rookie matchmaking room. Once you hit 4 mill SP you cannot enter it anymore.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 267	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:52:00 - [17] - Quote The answer is no, but i like to win my matches. Also rookie training room is a great idea. Love to see it once we get numbers to support segregating the player pool. But you cant build a pool if everyone coming in see the large gap and then see they are restricted for months on end before they can even viably play against them. I know its a vicious cycle, if there was only things we can do and mindsets we need to avoid. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75137&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=74752&find=unread
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Unclaimed. 511	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:52:00 - [18] - Quote Bring it. Tbh, i usually make a new alt every couple of months just to see how things are in pub matches. What i'm typically focussing on with these alts is this: Using a basic assault/AR/nanohive build at what rate do I accumulate sp in skirmish matches? The follow up question to that is how long does it take to put oneself in a reasonable bread-and-butter build without using AUR? In chromo it was maybe 2-3 weeks to type II with enhanced extenders/armor repper/gauged nanohive and partially filled in core skills plus an uplink suicide scout loadout. Good enough to make a difference in matches and make ISK. Another week gets you a reasonable AV loadout. And i'm fairly scrubby so i figure it's a good measure of difficulty for fps players from other games. In Uprising I'd expect it to take maybe a week longer. With the passive in-match bonus it's not even very dependent on your performance - busting your ass and eating pink fluffy plasma charges all match will maybe net you a couple/three thousand more sp in a match over playing it safe and not contributing to a win or breaking a redline. So, as far as i'm concerned, it's not that hard so long as your ego can handle the beating. But....if we ever get rid of the in-match passive sp(which i personally advocate for), we will absolutely need to institute measures to protect the pub matches from proto-losers. A separate discussion but worth keeping in mind.
bonkersfox Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:55:00 - [19] - Quote so im not the only one to notice a large group just maxed out weapons, my k/d ratio flipped upside down this week, I just got jumped on when I suggested to reduce the damage of the tac at distance,
Zatara Rought Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 138	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:10:00 - [20] - Quote I had a cousin and a brother in law try the game this week, after 2 hours they quit..They played defiance together and wanted to get into something competitive, but they both found this game ridiculously biased towards those who have better **** (ie. the guys who played last build and ergo have tons of extra isk to proto every match)

mollerz s1ck3r Corp 227	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:15:00 - [21] - Quote yes. by the time you fought your way to proto you'd be so bad ass with less gear you'd be a monster. people don't realize it's the losing and getting wiped out that make you a better player. not winning all the time. why do you think so many vets are pissed now? They can't go back to their uber game. they have to fight again :) For example, I wonder how chicagocubsforever will do without an HMG with unlimited range?
Zatara Rought Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 138	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:16:00 - [22] - Quote Chicago will own ur ass regardless scrub, if you sucked in the last buiid, you'll still get trashed this build.
Kaylee Veloc Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:21:00 - [23] - Quote Coming from someone who kinda did do what you described and am still here yes. (My character is only 1 month 19 days old now.)
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 1459	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:24:00 - [24] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Just an honest question, yes or no will be fine. If you had to start at 500k SP and play vs full proto squads of CRONOS, IMPs, PFBHz, RofL, EoN etc, would you bother, even once all the bugged skills etc are "fixed". No. Absolutely.
Arcturis Vanguard Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 10	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:26:00 - [25] - Quote I will agree that this game is extremely ruff on new players. Regardless of skill, gear does play a huge roll. Your first 1k kills makes you want to quit, but I love a challenge. When I'm in the war barge and see the other team stacked with high end corps and I see nothing but NPC corps on my side, I think to myself, **** this is going to be ruff. The only way to grow as a player is to be challenged. Grind it out.
Schalac 17 Murderz for hire 91	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:28:00 - [26] - Quote IamI3rian wrote: Can't get better if you don't play people who're better than you are. Can't get better unless you have the skills to boost your damage, tank, speed and accuracy. Actual skill is still a very small factor in this game.
Deluxe Edition TeamPlayers EoN. 155	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:31:00 - [27] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Just an honest question, yes or no will be fine. If you had to start at 500k SP and play vs full proto squads of CRONOS, IMPs, PFBHz, RofL, EoN etc, would you bother, even once all the bugged skills etc are "fixed". No. The game is incomplete, once faciton warfare is active all those alliances and corps you mentions will be running que synced full teams in FW, and will have little to no interest in forming squads to go instant que.
Deluxe Edition TeamPlayers EoN. 155	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:33:00 - [28] - Quote Schalac 17 wrote: IamI3rian wrote: Can't get better if you don't play people who're better than you are. Can't get better unless you have the skills to boost your damage, tank, speed and accuracy. Actual skill is still a very small factor in this game. In my opinion the game is 25% SP and 75% Skill. If the game was only about skill points then PRO would have a formidable A team.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 1460	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:35:00 - [29] - Quote Deluxe Edition wrote: Schalac 17 wrote: IamI3rian wrote: Can't get better if you don't play people who're better than you are. Can't get better unless you have the skills to boost your damage, tank, speed and accuracy. Actual skill is still a very small factor in this game. In my opinion the game is 25% SP and 75% Skill. If the game was only about skill points then PRO would have a formidable A team. NICE.
ZDub 303 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 45	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:37:00 - [30] - Quote Chromosome... Yes Uprising... No. But then again, with 9 million SP im still not playing Uprising. So...

Orin the Freak Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 557	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:40:00 - [31] - Quote no. but then again, no one has to play without a corp. It's easy enough to get into a corp, get your skills up. then if you feel you can do better, and you have the skills, you can seek to join one of those better corps.
Deluxe Edition TeamPlayers EoN. 155	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:42:00 - [32] - Quote Orin the Freak wrote: no. but then again, no one has to play without a corp. It's easy enough to get into a corp, get your skills up. then if you feel you can do better, and you have the skills, you can seek to join one of those better corps. I recommend Dust University! Its a great corp for new players. They are willing to help you through the SP system and teach you in ropes of Dust 514.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 431	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:45:00 - [33] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Just an honest question, yes or no will be fine. If you had to start at 500k SP and play vs full proto squads of CRONOS, IMPs, PFBHz, RofL, EoN etc, would you bother, even once all the bugged skills etc are "fixed". No. Given how much harder it is to hit people in this build, boosting your hp & firepower is an absolute necessity to compete. A 1 on 1 fight rarely ends at a distance anymore, & the more health you have, the longer you have to retreat & recover. It used to be the case that if you got the drop on someone, they'd be as good as dead, regardless of how much health they had. The best you could hope for is to have your extra shields buy you an extra split second to react. In Uprising you can move as a squad and be all but untouchable, thanks to how long it takes to kill someone. Facing pros in protos just isn't an option.
mollerz s1ck3r Corp 230	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:48:00 - [34] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Chicago will own ur ass regardless scrub, if you sucked in the last buiid, you'll still get trashed this build. not me homey. I do just fine. I just picked whomever was #1 on the leaderboards as of last build. Don't worry, I am not personally attacking your hero.
Flor Valentine The Phoenix Federation 0	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:50:00 - [35] - Quote Yes, you have to accept the challenge and take accomplishements for what is worth. I always use goiing agains known good corps as a chance to change tactics and as a measuring stick how I fair against them. You have to also account who else is in the team, when you have 10 people snipping your most likely become cannon fodder.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2863	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:53:00 - [36] - Quote Nope
Zahle Undt The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 88	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:58:00 - [37] - Quote Heck no! I have 9 million SP and you all usually beat the crap out of me! Seriously though, my answer would be yes IF that ammount of SP could get me into a logi suit with a basic repper and needle where I can run around the battlefield, be of some little use, and get some SP. This has been my gripe about the SP sinks, we'll all be fine, so I could only get into advanced logi suit instead of proto, I'd still be able to get by I can still do my specialty, I can still help my corp out despite my medicore gun game, newbies aren't going to get that chance for like 2 months. I don't know how one codes for caps on SP for matches though with squading. Would it simply not allow members of a squad with X ammount of SP not load into the match?
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 160	Posted - 2013.05.09 21:12:00 - [38] - Quote Yes, though it would only be a matter of time before I decided to just let my Passive accumulation develop me into better gear while I played other games. IDK how much AUR I'd be willing to buy if I was just constantly getting shat on.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2886	Posted - 2013.05.09 21:22:00 - [39] - Quote One of my alts has less than a million SP. So yes I do.
howard sanchez Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 524	Posted - 2013.05.09 21:26:00 - [40] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Tony Calif wrote: Just an honest question, yes or no will be fine. If you had to start at 500k SP and play vs full proto squads of CRONOS, IMPs, PFBHz, RofL, EoN etc, would you bother, even once all the bugged skills etc are "fixed". No. Yes, but I would be on the forums complaining that there's no matchmaker and no pve. CCP, get to it - matchmaker ASAP, no really, ASAP! Pve in the next build, no excuses. I believe it is a commonly held misperception that DUST514 does not have a matchmaker Dust currently has a 'working' matchmaker that, according to CCP does a decent job. The problem that CCP doesn't want to talk about is that every matchmaker only works at its optimal level when there are enough p,ayers queuing up What dust needS is more players. We have a matchmaker in place. Good luck with that, CCP

Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 839	Posted - 2013.05.09 21:31:00 - [41] - Quote Yes. And have done on other characters. It is also fun to see those guys getting their footing in the very early moments of every build. Too bad it only took IMPS like, a day and a half to discover the Duvolle Tac AR...
CYRAX SERVIUS The Generals EoN. 78	Posted - 2013.05.09 21:49:00 - [42] - Quote Deluxe Edition wrote: Schalac 17 wrote: IamI3rian wrote: Can't get better if you don't play people who're better than you are. Can't get better unless you have the skills to boost your damage, tank, speed and accuracy. Actual skill is still a very small factor in this game. In my opinion the game is 25% SP and 75% Skill. If the game was only about skill points then PRO would have a formidable A team. You just hit the nail on the fng head my friend, well said.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Unclaimed. 512	Posted - 2013.05.11 01:23:00 - [43] - Quote howard sanchez wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Tony Calif wrote: Just an honest question, yes or no will be fine. If you had to start at 500k SP and play vs full proto squads of CRONOS, IMPs, PFBHz, RofL, EoN etc, would you bother, even once all the bugged skills etc are "fixed". No. Yes, but I would be on the forums complaining that there's no matchmaker and no pve. CCP, get to it - matchmaker ASAP, no really, ASAP! Pve in the next build, no excuses. I believe it is a commonly held misperception that DUST514 does not have a matchmaker Dust currently has a 'working' matchmaker that, according to CCP does a decent job. The problem that CCP doesn't want to talk about is that every matchmaker only works at its optimal level when there are enough p,ayers queuing up What dust needS is more players. We have a matchmaker in place. Good luck with that, CCP Worth high lighting this crucial fact. +1 Howard. This is why CCP is talking about a new player academy and why they're reworking controls and why the new skill system. They need peeps, and need them bad. With the kinks in Uprising worked out, and a New Player match system, the peeps will stay.
XxWarlordxX97 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1708	Posted - 2013.05.11 01:29:00 - [44] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Just an honest question, yes or no will be fine. If you had to start at 500k SP and play vs full proto squads of CRONOS, IMPs, PFBHz, RofL, EoN etc, would you bother, even once all the bugged skills etc are "fixed". No. If IMPs are on the other side yes
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 71	Posted - 2013.05.11 01:35:00 - [45] - Quote Most of the time no and just backout to play another match
Ordo Malachai Bragian Order Amarr Empire 25	Posted - 2013.05.11 01:40:00 - [46] - Quote Yes (probably) If I was a new player though, after a few proto-stomping bouts, likely no. Sitting in the MCC soaking up SP would suddenly look good
Andius Fidelitas The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 58	Posted - 2013.05.11 01:44:00 - [47] - Quote Terram Nenokal wrote: Yes, but I would be inclined to try to join one of them so I can be a part of the stomping. So... No? This, precisely the reason I left the lone ranger crap ages ago.


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