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HighTimesSW
TeamPlayers
EoN.
5
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Posted - 2013.05.09 16:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
One thing I have noticed from just about every gaming company is that they always fall back on a nerfs to balance there game.
I could never understand this thought process and it something I feel is a huge mistake and I know I am not alone.
For example, DCUO is an mmorpg that has fallen into this trap, in an effort to consistently cater to new players they seem to nerf the OP weapon of the month until nobody wants to use it anymore. Then they recalibrate until there is a new OP weapon and they repeat this scenario over and over, until the game play no longer feels smooth, is no longer fun and once loyal customers gravitate to new games that are fun.
It boils down to having fun. People use items that work because they are fun. We want to be good, the 'OP' weapons are working and people like them. When you nerf them you make them not fun and people find something else that works and is fun again.
The thing I don't understand is why all gaming companies do this. Why would you ever take a fun element out of game?
Instead I would recommend in an effort to balance your game that you make other weapons better.
Balance the other weapons so they can counter what is felt by the community to be "OP". Right now the system just baffles me, why slow it down? Why make things not fun to use? Is the game balanced if everyone weapon doesn't kill? Eventually, the game becomes a giant pillow fight.
This is a not in any way a petition to change anything in particular other than your strategy for balancing. I would to the game take steps forward and not backward.
I know I can't be alone in this. How long will it take for a gaming company to realise this? |
KatanaPT
Tech Guard
General Tso's Alliance
105
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 16:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
I share the same feeling, last night i played a couple of games, and all of a sudden i wasnt having fun at all, might be me just being tired from work, but alas i quited the game and went to see a movie. But i do have concerns for the future of this game, if a new player on may 14th tries this game just to be unimpressed by the control feelings and being pubstomped, they will leave. Multiply this by n. |
Charizard Zakalwe
Goonfeet
36
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
You realise that if something is OP (And OP means over powered, not 'good) that that warrants toning it down right? It means that it does do far more than it should. OP means something is out of balance. Stop being mad that your easy mode button got nerfed and you have to change up or adapt to new things. |
calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F
Orion Empire
113
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
I've had the privileged to watch 3 games fall into the nerf cycle they have all dwindled their player base into obscurity and been obsoleted.
every single one of those games had promising futures as well.
it's the exact same thing i'm seeing here sadly.
honestly if something is broken, fixing it later causes more trouble then leaving it alone 9 times out of ten.
player type A thinks his weapons should be better then players type B so he gets on the forums and calls for nerfes, they seem vocal enough and get play type B nerfed.
player type B is annoyed and 1% of player type B leaves the game, player type B is now weaker then player type A he gets type A nerf 1% leaves, player Type C is now stronger then both so they get him nerfed 3% leaves.
it's a cycle that never ends, and features just keep getting reduced, and the game ends up with almost no content, balance is never reached.
If this perfect dream of balance could ever be reached I'd say it was worth it, but it never is reachable and if it was it's thrown off at the first expansion and the cycle begins anew, you may as well be looking for the holy grail.
the problem IMO stems from the fact that no player can agree on how the game direction should go, and what balance really is, and because of that nobody will ever agree and nerf calls will always come. at some point the devs more or less just need to say tough, live with it till the next expansion and focus on releasing new content. |
HighTimesSW
TeamPlayers
EoN.
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 17:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Charizard Zakalwe wrote:You realise that if something is OP (And OP means over powered, not 'good) that that warrants toning it down right? It means that it does do far more than it should. OP means something is out of balance. Stop being mad that your easy mode button got nerfed and you have to change up or adapt to new things.
You missed what I was saying entirely. There will always be something someone considers 'OP'. This has nothing to do with "My I Win Button" / "Easy Mode" bla bla bla.
This has to do with the cycle of programming that I noticed in many games not just this one.
Socom, DCUO, DUST514... etc.. Gaming companies continue this method until just about every weapon feels clunky and not fun.
People will use what is fun every time, and what is fun is usually what works.
Everyone has switched to what is working? And when that gets nerfed, which it will, they move onto the next fun thing, am I not right?
The cycle continues. |
Aquinarius Zoltanus
The Tritan Industries
RISE of LEGION
14
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
I don't know, I think you're generalizing a bit here. All nerfs are not created equal. There is a difference between 'tastefully' nerfed and nerfed to oblivion. I think it's when they react by nerfing to oblivion the OP weapon of the month that's the real culprit here. When something is much stronger than its counterparts, something needs to happen. Either nerf it, or buff everything
else.
For example, the Heavy/HMG was nerfed to oblivion this build, which was really way too far. But I think that in this build the nanohives were tastefully nerfed. They still have a good effect and people will continue to use them, but they aren't as ridiculously powerful as they were before. With the new balance, I think that Tac ARs need a nerf (but to reiterate, not to a point of unplayability, but just to be brought in line with everything else).
So I think that over-nerfing is what causes the cycle you refer to. But if you do small nerfs, followed by small buffs if the nerf went too far, then eventually you should have a balanced weapon. |
Stands Alone
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 17:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP has a good way of balancing exploits. once released they will cycle and there will always be an OP weapon, and the second time around they will balance things really well
they use algebra. they dont just keep subtracting. what they take from one thing, they put somewhere else. i wouldnt be too worried about the anything being OP for that long, as CCP will counter it with something.
EVE pilots understand this cycle and that CCP loves players to exploit things. that way they purposely add a new dynamic to exploit, there is a huge rush of players to do it while they all become equals. there is always a counter player base specifically fitting up and preparing to directly counter it |
Charizard Zakalwe
Goonfeet
38
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 18:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
HighTimesSW wrote:Charizard Zakalwe wrote:You realise that if something is OP (And OP means over powered, not 'good) that that warrants toning it down right? It means that it does do far more than it should. OP means something is out of balance. Stop being mad that your easy mode button got nerfed and you have to change up or adapt to new things. You missed what I was saying entirely. There will always be something someone considers 'OP'. This has nothing to do with "My I Win Button" / "Easy Mode" bla bla bla. This has to do with the cycle of programming that I noticed in many games not just this one. Socom, DCUO, DUST514... etc.. Gaming companies continue this method until just about every weapon feels clunky and not fun. People will use what is fun every time, and what is fun is usually what works. Everyone has switched to what is working? And when that gets nerfed, which it will, they move onto the next fun thing, am I not right? The cycle continues.
restating a point doesn't make it right. 'nerfing' is how you unbreak something overpowered. By making it weaker. Alternatively you increase other things that counteract it (such as armor/shield stats but that would be way more of a hassle than making duvolles be less brokenly murdertstic. Since dust actually has shields, armor, and etc, there are many, many, more variables to balance than just 'make gun less shooty' but making it less shooty is a shortstop means of fixing it.
Like someone else said, CCP isn't just subtracting, they're actually balancing. But nice of you to include fairly unheard of example games. and games can be broken with minimal nerfing :see bf3 |
Deluxe Edition
TeamPlayers
EoN.
150
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 19:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Charizard Zakalwe wrote:
restating a point doesn't make it right. 'nerfing' is how you unbreak something overpowered. By making it weaker. Alternatively you increase other things that counteract it (such as armor/shield stats but that would be way more of a hassle than making duvolles be less brokenly murdertstic. Since dust actually has shields, armor, and etc, there are many, many, more variables to balance than just 'make gun less shooty' but making it less shooty is a shortstop means of fixing it.
Like someone else said, CCP isn't just subtracting, they're actually balancing. But nice of you to include fairly unheard of example games. and games can be broken with minimal nerfing :see bf3
^ this is what hightimes is talking about... you seem to belive that AR is OP when in all reality it isn't. The submachine gun rapes AR's at close range. The Scrambler pistol can 1 shot headshot you. The mass driver can suppress entire teams and 1 shots armor tanked dropsuits. Sniper rifles own range. Laser rifles eat through everyones shields (remember this is a team game, eating through shields almost instantly is an amazing ability for squad orientated players. Finally don't forget about grenades! They have a longer range than most weapons and can 1 shot most anyone.
Also some people say the TAC AR is op however while it mostly wins in medium-long range encounters and is only serviceable cqc when the opponent knows how to strafe. (However if a player is using a modded controller it does make the weapon OP however that in that case the player is breaking the terms of the EULA and will probably get banned for it). |
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