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Armor pack worthless/refund

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Skittles McDuckett SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 19	Posted - 2013.05.09 14:13:00 - [1] - Quote They are planning on completely nerfing the stats of the tanks that were bought with the armor pack. The only reason any of us bought that pack was because of the insane amount of PG the creodron HAVs had(more than proto). Yes, they had a limited slot layout, but the PG made up for it. What I am getting at, I spent $9.99 for 40 tanks, that are now going to be worse than the AUR tanks. I could have gotten 66 AUR tanks for the same amount of money. They have reduced the base PG by at least 33%. Does anyone else see a problem here? There are some of us out there that spend actual money to have an edge in this game, I am not afraid to admit it. They are making these changes ex post facto, this is completely unacceptable and I feel that a refund is in order here. They have messed up so much stuff with vehicles. First, they had the wrong description for vehicle engineering, which has caused major issues and pretty much made all tanks glass. Then, they had the skill requirements for shields incorrect, I had to spec into the dropsuit skills to be able to use the shield extenders.... Now I have lost SP. There is a major issue either with hit detection or the large turrets randomly not doing any damage with a direct hit. The elevation and depression of the large turret is COMPLETELY kittened, making it impossible to shoot people on small hills. Now, they are changing the stats of the Creodron HAV to make it useless. The issue is not that tanks have been nerfed, the issue is that CCP has completely broken HAVs. With all of this going on, why would anyone want to spec into HAVs anymore? I don't mind giving you money, but at least have the decency to take me out to dinner before you kitten me in the kitten, CCP. Quote: CCP Blam! wrote: Hi all, thanks for your feedback. YouGÇÖre right to point out that the PG and CPU numbers needed some changes there, even after you compare their less robust slot layout and lower HP numbers to the Standard HAVs. On their own base fits, they fair decently against other HAVs but when players with enough skill points start swapping out these modules for more premium modules the fit starts to become a bit more imposing than what we had intended. As a result, IGÇÖve reduced the PG/CPU numbers so that each racial flavour of AUR HAV is a bit lower than their Standard tier equivalents, and swapped out modules in these fits to suit. The changes are as follows: Kaalakiota Tactical HAV PG: 1905 -> 1800 CPU: 320 -> 320 Creodron Breach HAV PG: 3880 -> 2584 CPU: 222 -> 214 Low slot module change: Militia Heavy Armor Repairer -> Militia Armor Repairer Gunnlogi (Gallente Standard HAV) PG: 1805 CPU: 330 Madrugar (Caldari Standard HAV) PG:2905 CPU: 210 After this passes our local QA, weGÇÖll be sure to pass the update to you very soon. To tack onto this, IGÇÖd like to assure you that weGÇÖll also be looking at increasing the vehiclesGÇÖ overall sustainability in combat so that you can start seeing longer, more engaging encounters on the battlefield. Best Regards, -CCP Blam!
Skittles McDuckett SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 20	Posted - 2013.05.09 17:24:00 - [2] - Quote I guess I should use up my Credron HAVs before they change the specs.... Oh wait, my skills are all messed up now, I cannot fit them properly.
Skittles McDuckett SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 22	Posted - 2013.05.09 17:46:00 - [3] - Quote NeoWraith Acedia wrote: eKona vinDar wrote: No refunds does not apply when you change the attributes of the product AFTER purchase. This falls into the categories of false advertising and bait and switch. Both of which are illegal They didn't sell you the attributes though , or did the armor pack give their exact stats? Also, the in-game items belong to CCP and they can adjust them as they see fit, all you bought was having those items credited to your account. If you payed extra for a car with a V8 in it only to wake up and find out that the manufacturer replaced it with a V6 while you were sleeping, wouldn't you be angry? I purchased an armor pack to test the tanks out... then I purchased a ton more once I saw the PG on the Credron HAV.
Skittles McDuckett SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 22	Posted - 2013.05.09 17:51:00 - [4] - Quote crazy space 1 wrote: I agree with op, that's not a tiny change... And how are u suppose to want to buy things fir aur when everything changes hardcore every other month ? So they have less slots , less pg and cpu than standard tanks, and less hp what ?????????? You can't sell something for cash and then be like, nope you actually bought this totally different thing! If op is smart he will remove all tanks are broken talk from the op, and focus on the refund bait and switch. Glad I don't spend money on this game yet that's for sure Thanks for the suggestion. I have changed the layout of the original post to better separate the two lines of thought.
Skittles McDuckett SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 22	Posted - 2013.05.09 17:59:00 - [5] - Quote NeoWraith Acedia wrote: Everything in this game is subject to change, how is that not clear? CCP would have a lawsuit on their hands everytime they changed any stats if that wasn't the case. You guys can try court though Game mechanics, things bought with free in game currency (i.e. ISK), sure.... but not something bought with actual money. They have actually been brought to small claims court and lost against a tanker during the last build... and he brought them to court before there were P2W tanks.
Skittles McDuckett SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 22	Posted - 2013.05.09 18:57:00 - [6] - Quote eKona vinDar wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Exactly right... if they do anything to existing tanks, I will probably never buy aurum again, period ever. Its not legality issues at stake, its ethics. They can take those tanks off the market and sell updated versions of the tanks, but they should never, ever, mess with the existing tanks that were already purchased. If the AA pack is still on the market, the best solution would be to take it down now. Redo the stats, and upload it back up. The existing tanks will remain, and just slow be removed from the market through attrition and vehicle destruction. They shouldn't implement refunds or anything like that... just leave the already purchased tanks the way they are. 1000% agreed. This is the most simple and most ethical option which will not lost CCP money or customers, and will not have any negative impact on the game. Trust me, they WILL be destroyed... I have already lost 20 or more Creodron HAVs. Also, they could turn this into an opportunity to make more money... If they change the pack by say lowering the PG (not as much as the Dev suggested tho, thats ridiculous) and adding one high power slot or something to make it sort of a weird fit... then I would buy it. If they just lower the PG and repost the same pack... I probably wont buy any more, but I would be happy with the Creodron I had... treating them like gold.... and be happy with CCP. I would also be on the look out for more cool packs, and trust the CCP will not change them. If they do not do this... well I just wont give them any more of my money.... The sad thing is that I have to buy a bunch of merc packs since they are going away(or at least changing) on the 14th.
Skittles McDuckett SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 22	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:04:00 - [7] - Quote eKona vinDar wrote: Skittles McDuckett wrote: The sad thing is that I have to buy a bunch of merc packs since they are going away(or at least changing) on the 14th. I am holding out on buying anymore merc packs until I find out weather CCP is going to start changing stats of items purchased with real money.... it's a trust issue now. Note: CCP could be really cool and send me a PM saying they will keep the current purchases the same and make a new pack tonight during maintenance... that way I could go spend a couple hundred bucks on the armor packs... I would too. Is CCP that smart?... LOL ... or will they do the opposite? CCP, feel free to send me that message too
Skittles McDuckett SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 22	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:16:00 - [8] - Quote eKona vinDar wrote: BUMP OP please change the title of the post to something shorter, more precise, and less rage sounding. Reformat your OP using paragraphs, remove negative tone and focus more on keeping the current creodron and updating ONLY future sales. Will remove this text afterwards. Done
Skittles McDuckett SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 22	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:28:00 - [9] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: 1. Did the terms of sale include the stats on the tanks? No. Your "false advertising" claim is invalid. 2. Did the terms of sale specify that the tanks are "Militia" vehicles? Yes. You should have been expecting Militia stats. 3. Is DUST advertised as specifically NOT being pay-to-win and has it had multiple weapons and modules with better-than-ISK-variant stats rebalanced to function identically to the ISK version? Yes. You should have, at worst, been expecting the same statlines as the Gunnlogi and Madrugar, but without the prerequisites. When a company changes the rules, grandfathering is the best option.... almost every cell phone company does it. People that put money on the line are getting screwed here. They are basically changing the specifications of something before delivery. Would you be made if you payed for surround sound speakers, but when they showed up, they were stereo speakers?... or a pack of 20 batteries and the UPS guy only shows up with 13 batteries?
Skittles McDuckett SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 22	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:02:00 - [10] - Quote Summer-Wolf wrote: I would suggest sending a ticket in. I agree with you that its not right, but because im expecting not a lot of people bought those packs, it might be dealt on a personal basis. But I do agree it should be on the forums so others are aware of what is going on. Thats the problem with micro-transaction games, we are at the mercy of the devs for item stats. Sent one in... We will see if I get a response.

Skittles McDuckett SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 22	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:45:00 - [11] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Skittles McDuckett wrote: I have found something quite disturbing on the forums. They(CCP) are planning on completely nerfing the stats of the tanks that were bought with the armor pack. The only reason any of us bought that pack was because of the insane amount of PG the creodron HAVs had(more than proto). Yes, they had a limited slot layout, but the PG made up for it. I bought at least 5 of the armor packs. What I am getting at, I spent $9.995packs=$49.95 for 200 tanks(100 which are kinda kitteny, sorry the Kaalakiota is a little weak), that are now going to be worse than the AUR tanks. I could have gotten 66 AUR tanks for the same amount of money. They have reduced the base PG by at least 33%. Does anyone else see a problem here? There are some of us out there that spend actual money to have an edge in this game(and to support CCP), I am not afraid to admit it. We are the people that fund this game, so, you're welcome. They are making these changes ex post facto, this is completely unacceptable and I feel that a refund is in order here. Now, they are changing the stats of the Creodron HAV to make it useless. The issue is not that tanks have been nerfed, the issue is false advertising, bait and switch, etc. I don't mind giving you money, but please keep your end of the bargain. I feel that the best option here would be to keep the stats the same for the existing Creodron HAVs and make a new version for the armor pack moving forward(they are gonna have to make them either cheaper or better to encourage sales over the AUR tanks). Tanking has been a mess since the Uprising release. First, they had the wrong description for vehicle engineering, which has caused major issues and pretty much made all tanks glass. Then, they had the skill requirements for shields incorrect, I had to spec into the dropsuit skills to be able to use the shield extenders.... Now I have lost SP and I cannot use my tanks. There is a major issue either with hit detection or the large turrets randomly not doing any damage with a direct hit. The elevation and depression of the large turret is COMPLETELY kittened, making it impossible to shoot people on small hills. With all of this going on, why would anyone want to spec into HAVs anymore? Please post in this thread if you bought an armor pack and you are interested in keeping the stats the same. Post to keep this on the first page, hopefully the DEVs will read this and respond. Quote:* CCP Blam! wrote: Hi all, thanks for your feedback. YouGÇÖre right to point out that the PG and CPU numbers needed some changes there, even after you compare their less robust slot layout and lower HP numbers to the Standard HAVs. On their own base fits, they fair decently against other HAVs but when players with enough skill points start swapping out these modules for more premium modules the fit starts to become a bit more imposing than what we had intended. As a result, IGÇÖve reduced the PG/CPU numbers so that each racial flavour of AUR HAV is a bit lower than their Standard tier equivalents, and swapped out modules in these fits to suit. The changes are as follows: Kaalakiota Tactical HAV PG: 1905 -> 1800 CPU: 320 -> 320 Creodron Breach HAV PG: 3880 -> 2584 CPU: 222 -> 214 Low slot module change: Militia Heavy Armor Repairer -> Militia Armor Repairer Gunnlogi (Gallente Standard HAV) PG: 1805 CPU: 330 Madrugar (Caldari Standard HAV) PG:2905 CPU: 210 After this passes our local QA, weGÇÖll be sure to pass the update to you very soon. To tack onto this, IGÇÖd like to assure you that weGÇÖll also be looking at increasing the vehiclesGÇÖ overall sustainability in combat so that you can start seeing longer, more engaging encounters on the battlefield. Best Regards, -CCP Blam! So you're bitching because the payed assets are being balanced with the new stats of the free assets? I mean, are you effectively arguing for P2W? That's what it seems like to me. Besides, if you want to whine about payed content being nerfed, go talk to SOE. I am bitching because I bought a product that was about on par with the proto tanks, more PG but less slots. It was more expensive than the AUR tanks, but that was because they were superior to the AUR tanks(yes, it has less slots, but the PG more than made up for it). Now, they are making the tanks essentially worthless. That is my issue.
Skittles McDuckett SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 22	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:46:00 - [12] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: eKona vinDar wrote: They are not being balanced evenly acording to the change. They are being nerfed below balance. Balance would mean if an ISK tank got nerfed 10% PG, and AUR tank would get nerfed 10% PG. Either way it doesn't matter because in the end that's not what I paid for. Just be happy people like us are willing to pay for things so people like you don't have to. I have 90,000 AURUM, most of which came from a Merc Pack I bought even after I got into the Closed Beta for free. Try again. Your math is flawed, try again.
Skittles McDuckett SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 22	Posted - 2013.05.09 21:37:00 - [13] - Quote eKona vinDar wrote: They are not being balanced evenly acording to the change. They are being nerfed below balance. Balance would mean if an ISK tank got nerfed 10% PG, and AUR tank would get nerfed 10% PG. Either way it doesn't matter because in the end that's not what I paid for. Just be happy people like us are willing to pay for things so people like you don't have to. ^^This.
Skittles McDuckett SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 22	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:04:00 - [14] - Quote Quote: I'll admit - as CCP already have - that this was a pretty major oversight on their part. But that doesn't negate the fact that the terms of the sale DON'T set out that you have any right to expect pay-to-win stats from your items after purchase. It may suck for you that you're losing your advantage, but that doesn't make it CCP's fault. You were exploiting an oversight by the devs to get an unfair advantage over other players. It's no different from any other exploit. They've patched it, and now you have to work for your kills on the same rules as everyone else. They refunded AUR items. Nerfs have been class wide. They are heavily nerfing one specific item that was only available with actual cash. It wasn't a simple oversite. If it was, they should have pulled the pack immediately. there is no validity to your argument of "well we feel we were wronged more, so you cannot possibly be right." I fall into the same category as you as far as the merc pack release day credit. I feel we should get that to. This thread is specifically about the armor pack, it is even in the title. k thx, bai.
Skittles McDuckett SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 22	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:49:00 - [15] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Skittles McDuckett wrote: Quote: I'll admit - as CCP already have - that this was a pretty major oversight on their part. But that doesn't negate the fact that the terms of the sale DON'T set out that you have any right to expect pay-to-win stats from your items after purchase. It may suck for you that you're losing your advantage, but that doesn't make it CCP's fault. You were exploiting an oversight by the devs to get an unfair advantage over other players. It's no different from any other exploit. They've patched it, and now you have to work for your kills on the same rules as everyone else. They refunded AUR items. Nerfs have been class wide. They are heavily nerfing one specific item that was only available with actual cash. It wasn't a simple oversite. If it was, they should have pulled the pack immediately. there is no validity to your argument of "well we feel we were wronged more, so you cannot possibly be right." I fall into the same category as you as far as the merc pack release day credit. I feel we should get that to. This thread is specifically about the armor pack, it is even in the title. k thx, bai. So because they're changing the stats on the armour pack, and announced publicly that they're going to, admitting that they didn't think the original stats through in terms of how they'd be affected by skills, you're assuming instead that they knew all along, and planned to try and get away with it until somene called them out? I feel compelled to repeat my appreciation for your splendiferous hat. It is not a matter of how it will be affected by skills. It is the base PG that is the issue at hand. The skill issue is something completely different. It was only mentioned at the end of the OP to convey my dissatisfaction with what they have done to tanking as a whole.
Skittles McDuckett SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 25	Posted - 2013.05.10 12:59:00 - [16] - Quote Has anyone checked to see if the stats are still the same today?
Skittles McDuckett SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 25	Posted - 2013.05.10 13:07:00 - [17] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: They are changed, Creadon has lost at least 1k PG it seems NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Worthless now.
Skittles McDuckett SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 25	Posted - 2013.05.10 13:41:00 - [18] - Quote Got a reply back... They said that the petition system was not the proper route for this complaint.... They said to post on the forums, that the game devs occasionally read the forums.... So, CCP, I'm waiting.
Skittles McDuckett SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 26	Posted - 2013.05.10 14:02:00 - [19] - Quote Taps watch... Is this thing working