DUST Search - CCP INTENDS TO FIX TANKS

Casius Hakoke wrote:

CaoticFox wrote:

Casius Hakoke wrote:

I have to say I agree with the more tank less gank approach to balancing HAV's. I have limited use with the missile turrets, but one thing I could see would be instead of just an across the board reduction to dps of HAV turrets, maybe change the efficiency of the turrets depending on what is being shot at. Say infantry would have a 50% efficiency dealing 50% less damage per shot to them, but you could still have 100% efficiency against other vehicles and installations.

Not sure how much of a difference it could be, those are just some numbers off the top of my head. I have been a big blaster user, so that is my primary experience with HAV turrets. Just my 0.02 isk.

Edit: The efficiency could actually vary depending on the frame size of the infantry you are shooting at, so it would be very difficult to kill a moving scout while a waddling heavy would have a higher efficiency rating.

i understand ur reasoning, but... seriously? my tank can destroy an installation, but not a scout??? where is the believability in that? FUTURISTIC... not just EVERY 1 is equal... its a TANK! any of you ever faced one in real life? obviously NOT. u RUN!!! u dont go get a missile launcher and 1v1 it... u call in air support... u call in a "special team" .... TANK!!!

I believe what I was talking about has more to do with tracking speed for the scouts and heavy variety. Just throwing stuff out there, we all need to do some serious thinking cap talking if we want our HAV's to be more like tanks than wet paper bags.

Edit: Combine tracking speed variety between turrets of different calibers and efficiency rating and there might be something there, but it would need to be tested a lot.


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BelleMorte MORTIMOR Betaguards 2	Posted - 2013.05.09 12:57:00 - [1] - Quote ccp blam has recently stated that ccp is looking into fixing tanks and making them more sustainable in tanking battle i.e less glass cannon more armor fortress. this is not a hate thread it is a thread for tankers to get together, people who have dedicated their time and effort into trying to work this complex that has been so broken, and discuss solutions. if you do not tank and you have not tanked if you do not specilize as av no one puts any value to what you say on this subject so dont be rude by mucking it up. now the general idea is more tank less gank in my opinion i know this is favored by more than just me this is a great idea imagine if tanking no longer became about one shotting every infantry before they gank you and more about taking damage and dealing damage. im not sure to what levels things would need to be adjusted atm adjust tanks hp to make them sustainable in battle would mean huge buff all across the module board. more hp means the need for better healing units, but personally i think the healing untis for havs should be upped with the extenders but fractionally lower to allow margin for external ally healing i.e shield transported remote repair units better to live and not kill everything in sight, but more so contribute to your teams win discuss
BelleMorte MORTIMOR Betaguards 2	Posted - 2013.05.09 13:13:00 - [2] - Quote lower the rail gun damage so it take more than a few shots but keep it at the point where it one shots infantry the rail gun is an av weapon its extreme hard to use vs infantry and takes a skilled tanker lower the blaser to where infantry can survive 4-7 hits in the equivalent tiered suit for example if your average proto suit has 800 hp then you proto blaster should do between 75-100 dmg raise the radius on the fragmented missiles by 50% (lower the damage ) raise the range on the accelerated missiles by 75% (makes them almost as good as rail) lower the radius . raise the damage lower the fire interval for cycled missiles keep damage scale same tier shield hardeners as such timers scaled 15 sec 25 sec 35 sec resistances remain same recharge time 15 secs on all tier armor hardeners as such timers scaled 30 sec 45 sec 60 sec the hp is the tricky part any ideas i have used every turrent in uprising as i unlock full proto large n small missile and hybrid i think these are good reductions and alterations to turrents assuming hp was buffed. i personally think double hp
BelleMorte MORTIMOR Betaguards 2	Posted - 2013.05.09 13:14:00 - [3] - Quote right and then they go and do it to heavies lolz
BelleMorte MORTIMOR Betaguards 2	Posted - 2013.05.09 13:14:00 - [4] - Quote BelleMorte MORTIMOR wrote: right and then they go and do it to heavies lolz this isa repreach from a year ago
BelleMorte MORTIMOR Betaguards 3	Posted - 2013.05.09 13:23:00 - [5] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: BelleMorte MORTIMOR wrote: ccp blam has recently stated that ccp is looking into fixing tanks and making them more sustainable in tanking battle i.e less glass cannon more armor fortress. this is not a hate thread it is a thread for tankers to get together, people who have dedicated their time and effort into trying to work this complex that has been so broken, and discuss solutions. if you do not tank and you have not tanked if you do not specilize as av no one puts any value to what you say on this subject so dont be rude by mucking it up. now the general idea is more tank less gank in my opinion i know this is favored by more than just me this is a great idea imagine if tanking no longer became about one shotting every infantry before they gank you and more about taking damage and dealing damage. im not sure to what levels things would need to be adjusted atm adjust tanks hp to make them sustainable in battle would mean huge buff all across the module board. more hp means the need for better healing units, but personally i think the healing untis for havs should be upped with the extenders but fractionally lower to allow margin for external ally healing i.e shield transported remote repair units better to live and not kill everything in sight, but more so contribute to your teams win discuss Yes but they aren't really fixing some of the skills just changing the text to mean what the skill really does post-Uprising. Which is a big F U to people who need what the skills did pre-Uprising. your referring to engineering going from +25% increase to pg to -5% cpu usage of powergrid modules yes if this is what they intend to do i could not agree more ccp has ruined tanks and i personally will be moving on to a new game sad since i love dust have for over a year. this is the only outcome for this have do not have enough pg to function they do not fuction even with this skill so replacing it with a skill even more worthless will drive us all away and i cant think anyone could be stupid enough to not see that and allow this to come to pass.CCP IF THIS IS WHAT YOU INTEND DUST WILL DIE OR BE FOOT ONLY GAME
BelleMorte MORTIMOR Betaguards 3	Posted - 2013.05.09 13:27:00 - [6] - Quote but since currently i am faced with afking until they fix this i would like to discuss HOW TO FIX HAVS with players who i play with who share my speciality including master av users. assuming CPP ACTUALLY INTENDED TO FIX THIS HOW WOULD WE FIX IT. blam has stated they are going to try and are discussing it well they have been trying for over a year and have failed repeatedly now the tanking community needs to get together and give ccp the solution they cannot find or leave a game we all used to love and enjoy. this game is the first game i have ever spent money on for in game items it had more potential than any game i have ever seen. lets fix this.
BelleMorte MORTIMOR Betaguards 5	Posted - 2013.05.09 14:52:00 - [7] - Quote i also feel that missile and rail guns should be able to aim to the upper extremes and blaster need at least 45% vertical enhancment
BelleMorte MORTIMOR Betaguards 6	Posted - 2013.05.09 15:51:00 - [8] - Quote Bloody Aimy wrote: Dunno what they fixed after i fited ion blaster there were no more resurses to fit heavy sb... u must be kidding ccp... they have not fixed anything as of yet not serious vehicle issues other than the logi lavs. known serious hav bugs would be pg and cpu skills and the turrent aiming isn't a modd or a nurf i believe so much as an overall issue that will clear up over the next few hot fixes before the 14th the same aiming issues with tanks everyone is experiencing with the exception of the veritcal aiming that is a tank exclusive error. which also i am sure will be fixed as missiles and rails are av and need to be able to shoot up.
BelleMorte MORTIMOR Betaguards 6	Posted - 2013.05.09 16:04:00 - [9] - Quote Casius Hakoke wrote: CaoticFox wrote: Casius Hakoke wrote: I have to say I agree with the more tank less gank approach to balancing HAV's. I have limited use with the missile turrets, but one thing I could see would be instead of just an across the board reduction to dps of HAV turrets, maybe change the efficiency of the turrets depending on what is being shot at. Say infantry would have a 50% efficiency dealing 50% less damage per shot to them, but you could still have 100% efficiency against other vehicles and installations. Not sure how much of a difference it could be, those are just some numbers off the top of my head. I have been a big blaster user, so that is my primary experience with HAV turrets. Just my 0.02 isk. Edit: The efficiency could actually vary depending on the frame size of the infantry you are shooting at, so it would be very difficult to kill a moving scout while a waddling heavy would have a higher efficiency rating. i understand ur reasoning, but... seriously? my tank can destroy an installation, but not a scout??? where is the believability in that? FUTURISTIC... not just EVERY 1 is equal... its a TANK! any of you ever faced one in real life? obviously NOT. u RUN!!! u dont go get a missile launcher and 1v1 it... u call in air support... u call in a "special team" .... TANK!!! I believe what I was talking about has more to do with tracking speed for the scouts and heavy variety. Just throwing stuff out there, we all need to do some serious thinking cap talking if we want our HAV's to be more like tanks than wet paper bags. Edit: Combine tracking speed variety between turrets of different calibers and efficiency rating and there might be something there, but it would need to be tested a lot. solution a balanced tank wouldnt have to sricfice nearly as much and should be able to fitt for example conscirpt tracking ehnacer number 2
BelleMorte MORTIMOR Betaguards 6	Posted - 2013.05.09 16:12:00 - [10] - Quote for example caldari havs should have low powered slots equal to their high in advanced tier so should gallente adv hav caldari 5 highowered slots 4 lowpowered 450 cpu (not sure about this stat didnt refernce anything just rough shod numbers) 2200 pg (like a skilled up gunlogi base) enough pg to deck it out in a shield fashion but not enough to ever put armor with armor reps on low powered the low owered on a caldari hav like this one's lowpowered slots would most likely be used for turrent enhancement maybe a cpu or pg bonus

BelleMorte MORTIMOR Betaguards 6	Posted - 2013.05.09 16:16:00 - [11] - Quote Vos Nuwem wrote: An issue that i have run into that i have not seen mentioned is the delayed activation of heavy armour reppers, it seems to have a 10-15sec delay after using the mod. i agree this is an issue armor reps have an incredibly slow repper delay
BelleMorte MORTIMOR Betaguards 6	Posted - 2013.05.09 16:26:00 - [12] - Quote the initial hp regen on havs is also to low. there should be a hav where it would be beneficial to speck regen tank on just like there should be an assault type caldari hav with higher resistances to stack resistance modules on ...for example assault caldari hav 5 high powered 2 lowpowered res stat ?? would prolly want efficancy vs infantry inefficancy vs vehicles 2000 pg gunlogi cpu 7000 shield 500 armor all blasters pg upgrade one high thuroughput field stabilizer number 2 heavy azeootropic heavy clarity double ward resistances 1 active res overall view 12k-14k hp big gun 75-90 dmg small 42 small thoughs on hav designed to go blaster on infantry to hold or defend a team or be the spearpoint on a push assuming the upped extenders and booster a bit and lowered the turrent damage accordingly
BelleMorte MORTIMOR Betaguards 6	Posted - 2013.05.09 16:36:00 - [13] - Quote A PROTO HAV 1. once we have a proto hav all our other havs will use their according tier turrents 2. this is a rough shot esimate based personal exp being hit with proto av does 2500-4500 dmg a proto hav should have 18k-25k hp depending on what it is designed for the havs need to be broken up ito more fitting caldari fittings that have lower hp a high base regen and lots of low slots for example adv rail sniping i think should be a regen stacked tank a big shield witha good hp regen. only enough pg and cpu to fitt turrents and hp modules maybe even enough to double heavy azeos assuming you use some low powered for pg and cpu enhancement after that youd be forced to build off the regen using ur remains for regen modules and turrent enhancment
BelleMorte MORTIMOR Betaguards 7	Posted - 2013.05.09 17:04:00 - [14] - Quote [/quote] I disagree. DMG does not need a buff or a nerf. It's fine as is. The change needs to be an increase of the CPU and PG of all vehicles by 50% as well as a 25% buff to all attributes of defensive modules. A tank's ability to kill grunts is adequate, but they kill other tanks way too quickly. Usually, it's between 3 and 15 seconds. It should be between 30 and 60 seconds.[/quote] explain specifically
BelleMorte MORTIMOR Betaguards 7	Posted - 2013.05.09 17:14:00 - [15] - Quote BelleMorte MORTIMOR wrote: I disagree. DMG does not need a buff or a nerf. It's fine as is. The change needs to be an increase of the CPU and PG of all vehicles by 50% as well as a 25% buff to all attributes of defensive modules. A tank's ability to kill grunts is adequate, but they kill other tanks way too quickly. Usually, it's between 3 and 15 seconds. It should be between 30 and 60 seconds.[/quote] yeah but do you really think we could get a buff to our hp without them nerfing something lolz common char that would put gunlogis at 8-9 k hp with solid res and decent damage which i mean tech is what i want em to be minus that damage nurf:) but what about durp ships that puts them in hell on earth ...i mean not that i care personally but i think they need to put in some side sciprt to alternate the damage dealt by heavy weapons like rail to durp ships ...but i dont care enough about arial vehicles to think further into it. i still think what i though of wwould be a beter adv hav i hope they respeck the saggy awesomly