DUST Search - [Feedback] heavies and percieved roles

Rynx Sinfar wrote:

The general opinion of Heavy seems to be that it should be able to kill better. The only difference you seem to want is more armor and less speed. You want to keep the big damage gun too.

The first part is taken care of by plates. The slowest assault could handle 2 complex plates and still be .3 m/s faster walk speed than heavy. You're shield will be low but your using the hi slots for complex damage mods you need to get the other thing you want.

I've said it before, you're describing an assault with heavier armor and a big gun (technically coming as Commando I believe).

Before update everyone complained heavies were being eaten by proto ARs. The problem I see is that the old heavy had just enough assault to be a gimped assault. Everyone was upset it was a gimped assault in disguise. Now they removed the rest of the assault and brought it into it's intended role.

I'm having 0 issues adapting and the other heavies in my corp have talked about the adjustment.

I can understand it no longer being fun if it isn't what you want, but I like it and there isn't another class that can do it. You described assault, so if you want assault play assault and don't take away a unique role from others.

That or wait for new heavy frames.


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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 831	Posted - 2013.05.08 23:01:00 - [1] - Quote This is not a rant thread, nor a "CCP hates heavies" thread. This is a plain explanation of what I see as the problems with heavies right now. This is a request for CCP to review the feelings of the players as i have found them, and the facts that I can confirm through experience or number crunching. The most important factor is most dedicated heavy players feel that running heavies right now is not fun. After reviewing a lot of people's opinions I'm finding I am not the only one who feels this way. I am also not in the minority. It's not a matter of not wanting to adapt to a new playstyle. It's a lot of us feel punished for finding ways to succeed at a brutally inefficient and SP intensive dropsuit set. Heavies being forced into a purely defensive niche is not fun to play, there is no fulfillment, and bluntly heavies do not have the firepower to fill the role except in an AV fashion. Removing options from people rather than allowing them the freedom to adapt their playstyles inevitably only creates anger among the playerbase, especially when you remove capabilities they have grown to depend on to remain competitive. I had a long conversation with someone who basically told me to HTFU even after admitting he abandoned heavies immediately upon learning the new slot layouts and nerfs to the HMG. This is fairly typical, and I'm having a hard time finding someone willing to say it's not an issue unless they're trying to be deliberately antagonistic and troll. Most of us joined DUST 514 because we LOVED the customization options. Now options are being taken away for gameplay styles. It begins with the heavy suits. Right now playing an HMG is not fun. Sitting on an objective waiting for the enemy to come to you is not fun. And the HMG doesn't have the effective range or damage output to deter anyone, much less the group blobs we've seen over the last two days, from assaulting an objective. I must respectfully submit that the new direction CCP is pushing for heavies is failing because it's not fun for anyone but the assaults attacking them. Disclaimer: I'm glad you pulled sharpshooter. it created an artificial disparity in weapon ranges that punished new players for not being able to cope with vets lobbing shots outside their max range while still being optimal. Loss of 2 damage module slots: -20% damage bonus Loss of Weaponry 5: -10% damage bonus Reduction of damage by more than 20% after the above heavy reductions have occurred. reduction of range. All of the above things were absolutely required to maintain any pretense of parity with prototype assault suits running duvolle Assault Rifles and even so Duels between duvolles and Boundless HMGs resulted in dead HMGs as often as not. CCP frame has stated that the projections show 30 meters to be firmly within the optimal range of a heavy machinegun. I absolutely believe this statement, because it fits what I have seen. But what is not being taken into account is a technical term called cone of fire. the more a target fits within the reticle of the HMG, the more bullets hit, the more damage is done. At 0-20 meters after spool up you can put it on someone's torso and slam in excess of 75% of bullets hit easily. At 20-30 meters this phenomenon drops sharply as the silhouette of the target fills less of the reticle, and because the silhouette filling is smaller it means the amount of hits are proportionately lower. this can result in anywhere between 40-60% hit loss between 20 and 30 meters depending on the hitbox of the target. machinegunners call this "cone of fire" in real life as the vibrations of the gun cause the bullets to scatter in a cone as you move further out. The HMG bullet animation also follows the pattern. But the further away you get, the more likely you are fully within the cone, but the percentage of bullets that will hit drop sharply. You introduced the mechanic into DUST 514 whether intentional or not, CCP. And we have to take it into account when discussing any changes to the heavy machinegun. I only spotted it because I was a Heavy Machinegunner for a few years of my life, and I thought it was an awesome thing to add to the game. I still think it is awesome. I believe upping the base damage is the solution. I believe tightening the cone of fire would be a catastrophically bad idea because surviving heavies depends on that dispersion at range. The dispersion is what gives the HMG suppression, the damage gives heavies killing power up close where the dispersion is minimal. I think CCP Devs went the opposite direction and constricted the fights to close quarters by reducing ranges except for snipers. I'll let someone else chew on that problem. Finally I will address the movement reductions that bring the new shield tanked heavy suits in line with the old armor tanked heavy suits. i'm cool with it. i know a lot of people are not, but with a bit of patience and cunning you can be a viable door-kicker even at slow fatsuit speeds. it's how I ran Chromosome from start to finish because I prefer the armored buffer tank over the more speedy shield tank. I found it more survivable. Bluntly i feel that the heavies need to maintain the mobility problems to maintain some sort of parity should CCP decide to rebuff the HMG. After all the Sentinel is supposed to be a defensive platform by CCP vision. But i believe that you should be able to adapt it to other roles. I also believe you should be prepared for accepting the downsides of doing so. Thank you for your time, and I hope you find this thread useful.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 831	Posted - 2013.05.08 23:08:00 - [2] - Quote Dexter Peabody wrote: heavies are the worst, remove them from the game. SORRY BREAKIN NO CORP SUPPORT FOR YOU DIAF Dex. No one loves you, hehehehe
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 833	Posted - 2013.05.09 01:10:00 - [3] - Quote Update: stacking penalties on Damage mods has not been fixed. Assault/logi can stack 4-5 complex mods on proto suits. HMG cannot compete at any level with this.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 840	Posted - 2013.05.09 02:29:00 - [4] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: The general opinion of Heavy seems to be that it should be able to kill better. The only difference you seem to want is more armor and less speed. You want to keep the big damage gun too. The first part is taken care of by plates. The slowest assault could handle 2 complex plates and still be .3 m/s faster walk speed than heavy. You're shield will be low but your using the hi slots for complex damage mods you need to get the other thing you want. I've said it before, you're describing an assault with heavier armor and a big gun (technically coming as Commando I believe). Before update everyone complained heavies were being eaten by proto ARs. The problem I see is that the old heavy had just enough assault to be a gimped assault. Everyone was upset it was a gimped assault in disguise. Now they removed the rest of the assault and brought it into it's intended role. I'm having 0 issues adapting and the other heavies in my corp have talked about the adjustment. I can understand it no longer being fun if it isn't what you want, but I like it and there isn't another class that can do it. You described assault, so if you want assault play assault and don't take away a unique role from others. That or wait for new heavy frames. the suit's fine. the gun sucks. it is worthless. and the commando suit is now going to be lighter, faster and carry two light weapons, no heavy weapons according to teh Devs. I'll stick to slow, can't dodge, takes a beating and people are reluctant to engage me in my front arc.