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Sete Clifton
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE
110
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
The aiming in Dust has admittedly always been an issue for me and something I've thought a lot about. With Uprising and the recent changes to the aiming, I decided to actually see if I could figure out what was going on and how it has been designed. I know aim acceleration isn't the only factor, but it's the one I decided to study.
First thing to note is that the specific inspiration and analysis that I did was based completely off of this blog:
http://drstrangevolt.blogspot.com/2012/12/aim-acceleration-in-console-shooters-part1.html
http://drstrangevolt.blogspot.com/2012/12/aim-acceleration-in-console-shooters-part2.html
The first link is an overview of what aim acceleration and aim smoothing is, and the second part is some data from specific games. I'd definitely recommend going through both, as they are pretty interesting (and no it is not mine that I'm secretly trying to advertise) and it gives a reference to what I'm presenting.
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Anyway, now for what I did. I basically took the approach from the blog and tried it with Dust. The Idea is to spin around at full tilt of the right analog stick and record the time it takes to go through a certain number of degrees. I did a full 360 degree spin at three sensitivity levels: 0, 50, and 100. This will be edited later, but I should point out I've only analyzed the sensitivity 0 data so far (it's pretty tedious and takes a while).
To get the data, I recorded a video of the mini map (at 60 fps and 1/130 shutter in 720p). The reason I used the mini map is so that I would later have a reference to which I could measure the angles. To do this, I stood at a point so that the little circle in the middle of the icon of a turret was exactly on the middle ring of the mini map. I'm not going to post the video, because it doesn't really show much.
Anyway, I exported still frames (one every 0.0333 seconds) and took angle measurements in GIMP using the measure tool. Finally, here's what I found (again, only sensitivity 0 so far):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqMshc-A6HVHdHRKbjM1NG5NQ081Ml9sMDR2RVl4N0E#gid=0
I know this is incomplete and it might not mean as much as it should because I've only analyzed the data for a pretty useless level of sensitivity. However, I thought I'd still just post this now, let people start talking about it (if there is anything to talk about), and edit it later. I'm actually curious if CCP has versions of these graphs that could be compared to mine. I suppose I could have messed up somewhere, but I think I did it right.
So, thoughts? Concerns? Is this all just useless? I let you all discuss that for now. |
Chilled Pill
Pro Hic Immortalis
RISE of LEGION
56
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Posted - 2013.05.08 07:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
+1 internets to you sir for taking the time to do this. Curious to see the data for max'd sensitivity. |
Sete Clifton
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE
113
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Posted - 2013.05.08 11:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm bumping this because I've collected more data. I added the data to for sensitivity 100 to the spreadsheet and graphs.
By looking at the second graph (speed vs time), we can see that the peak rotational speed appears to be about the same for all sensitivity levels. However, what seems to change is the aim smoothing. The lower the sensitivity, the longer and more noticeable the smoothing is. Whereas at sensitivity 100, the smoothing effect is very short, and you quickly reach the maximum angular velocity.
By comparison, games like COD do the opposite (as can been seen from the graphs in the second link I provided), where the peak rotation speed increases with sensitivity, but the time it takes to get to the maximum velocity is the same for all sensitivity levels.
This brings me to an interesting conclusion. I've tried playing Uprising at low sensitivity, and the aiming does indeed feel much smoother and responsive, but it's not viable because of the amount of time it takes to build up speed. I've also played at really high sensitivity, in which case I can look around much more quickly because access to the top speed is quicker, but it also is much harder to precisely aim because of the lack of smoothing. Anyone have thoughts on this? |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
3750
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Posted - 2013.05.08 11:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
I have done similar tests on this with the 360 degree spinning to see if I build up speed, though with just eyeballing, no graphs and stats. Most shooters on console have a clear acceleration, I Dust's acceleration is very low (or nonexistent) by comparison. I did these tests on Chromosome though, and not Uprising.
Anyway, based on your findings with Dust's acceleration in comparison to most console shooter, what needs to be done? |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
465
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Posted - 2013.05.08 11:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Good stuff, thanks for taking the time to do this.
I'm surprised to hear you can't increase your turning speed by settings, only the acceleration. It does make sense from balancing perspective, though. Good FPS players are better regardless of higher turning speed - and giving them that ability might widen the gap further.
CoD is different, since they only have KBM (PC) or controller (console), not both. Dust has to balance both, so mouse can't be faster than controller in turning. |
Sete Clifton
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE
115
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Posted - 2013.05.08 12:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
From what I've gathered, the smoothing effect takes about 0.8 seconds at sensitivity 0 and about maybe 0.1 seconds at sensitivity 100. I still have to get the sensitivity 50 data, and I'm now very interested to see if it fits between the other two.
I by no means really know how to actually develop a game or aiming system, so it's hard to say what I think should be done (and I'm hoping the more that see this the more this discussion can evolve), if anything at all. But just from my experience, I think I'd like to see an acceleration time somewhere between 0.2 and 0.4 seconds for pretty much all sensitivity levels, and then increase the range of maximum turning speed based on sensitivity.
Again, I could be wrong on all this, as I know I don't have the smallest margin of error. But even from just spinning in game and using a stopwatch, the overall times don't change much between sensitivity levels, which would make sense if the only thing changing was the acceleration time.
I'm curious as to if anyone from CCP has seen this though, and what they think about it if they have. |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
357
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 13:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Autoaim from controller settings affects mouse. Does this affect it, too? Can this be turned off? |
MarakPS3 Daga
Bojo's School of the Trades
39
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Posted - 2013.05.08 13:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
nice work here mate. more data for ccp is always useful, although they would be able to access data already... strike that more raw data for us is damn useful! |
Sete Clifton
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE
117
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Posted - 2013.05.08 21:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'm bumping this again because I now have all the data.
There is definitely a little error in there (I assume it's mostly from me an not CCP), but I think it still works so here's generally what I can conclude (added to OP):
-Maximum rotation speed doesn't change (at least not very much) based on sensitivity.
-Acceleration/Smoothing time decreases as sensitivity increases.
-There is an initial short and sharp increase in acceleration, then a period of slower acceleration, until finally it reaches maximum rotation speed (This one I'm not quite as sure about, as I think this could be from statistical error). |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2832
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Posted - 2013.05.09 05:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
Got any way to provide hard numbers on minimum rotation speeds based on how far you tilt the stick?
Because for me, that's a HUGE problem as well.
There's very little - if any - variation between a slight nudge to the right and a solid flick where you slam the stick against the controller casing. The game doesn't seem to match your turn speed to the distance the stick moves, only to how long you've had it tilted.
I think - THINK - there's a difference, but I'm not 100% sure and it would be nice for someone who can test properly to do so. |
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Sete Clifton
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE
118
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Posted - 2013.05.09 09:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Got any way to provide hard numbers on minimum rotation speeds based on how far you tilt the stick?
Because for me, that's a HUGE problem as well.
There's very little - if any - variation between a slight nudge to the right and a solid flick where you slam the stick against the controller casing. The game doesn't seem to match your turn speed to the distance the stick moves, only to how long you've had it tilted.
I think - THINK - there's a difference, but I'm not 100% sure and it would be nice for someone who can test properly to do so.
I don't have any numbers for that, and to be honest I don't think I'm going to collect any more. But just from playing around and sort of eyeballing it, I could tell that the rotation speed does depend on how far you tilt the stick. At least I think that's what you're asking about, though I might be misunderstanding your question. |
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