DUST Search - The Amarr Medium suits.

Serah Phymne wrote:

Don Von Hulio wrote:

Serah Phymne wrote:

The fact that Amarr suits are now omni tanks is stupid. The reason you don't do an omni tank in eve is because you can't focus on making both tanks work. Also why the hell are Amarr suits now shield tankers? What the hell is that about? Amarr have always been armour tank. And now you people are like "Yeah that totally makes sense" instead of "No it's never been like that and it's stupid."

But this isnt EvE? And as of yet, the only way to effectively armor tank is when you are being backed by a logi.

We only have a set number of suits and each of them have to be noticeably different from each other.
Gallente = Armor
Caldari = Shield
Minmatar = Fast
Amarr = Mid shield/Armor

Amarr dosnt need to be changed, but some more suit variants could be added.

No this is Eve. It is an online persistent shooter set in the Eve universe. Coming out with "It's not Eve" is blatantly wrong. Amarr have always been the Armor tanking race of the Eve universe far more than the Gallente have been.
This is the equivalent of making the Caldari armor tankers.

Gallente - Armor repair/Damage with Blasters/Drones
Caldari - Shield buffer/Damage with Railguns/Missiles
Minmatar - Shield boosting/ Damage with Autoguns/Fast
Amarr - Armor buffer/Damage with Lasers/Drones

It's not difficult to differentiate between the four races. To me it just seems like they lamed out at Amarr suits instead of putting a bit of effort into differentiating between the two shield tank races and the two armor tank races. One extra problem with the current setup for Amarr suits is that like in Eve, you now need to max out your SP in both Armor AND shield tanking in order to make the suit work. Which is just ridiculous since you only need to bother maxing out Shields for Mini's and Caldari and Armor for Gallente. Yet for the Amarr suit you're putting in over double the SP just to keep up with what the Gallente suit can do with more armor and 2 extra low slots.


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Kirah Sommersord Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2013.05.07 18:40:00 - [1] - Quote Just to say that Uprising fixed a lot of stuff but broke a few things too. But everything in the current build is fixable if we give CCP our opinions on the game as is. One thing at the forefront of my mind is how vastly underpowered the Amarr medium range of suits is. I've been an Eve player for a number of years and a part of what makes the Amarr Amarrian is that they have amazing armor. Nevertheless I was quite worried to see that the Gallente series of medium suits not only had better armor but more low slots for tanking than the Amarr suits. Not to mention that the only bonus for this appeared to be an increased shield amount. I can't quite fathom why this would be the case. Gallente Suits appear to occupy the niche that Amarrian suits should have in that they are top tier armor tankers. Where as Gallente suits should really be more about speed and damage (And drones when those come about). Whilst a few things will eventually come to be balanced from the forum discussions I hope that the Amarr suits are not left out as at the moment they seem terribly lackluster in comparison to their counter parts. Especially considering that atleast in Eve, Amarrian armor is the best in the galaxy. If anyone has any good ideas to make Amarrian suits adhere to their Eve lore and background whilst remaining within their own niche please feel free to post here. That goes for all you logibros out there who are wrestling with less slots and equipment for an otherwise useless sidearm slot.
Kirah Sommersord Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2013.05.07 18:52:00 - [2] - Quote Delirium Inferno wrote: Amarr medium suit has more total hit points than the other three, so you could think of that as a pre-determined mod slot that doesn't take up any CPU/PG. Yet the other suits can use that mod slot to not only make up the difference but exceed it considerably and still have the same number of mod slots free as the Amarr suit has. For instance the Minmatar suit can place a shield extender in and have vastly more shield HP and still have the 3 slots the Amarr suit has. I still can't quite understand why the Amarr suits have equal shielding and armor when in Eve Amarr have utterly poor shielding. It seems like a bit of an illogical jump.
Kirah Sommersord Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2013.05.07 19:02:00 - [3] - Quote Delirium Inferno wrote: Kirah Sommersord wrote: Delirium Inferno wrote: Amarr medium suit has more total hit points than the other three, so you could think of that as a pre-determined mod slot that doesn't take up any CPU/PG. Yet the other suits can use that mod slot to not only make up the difference but exceed it considerably and still have the same number of mod slots free as the Amarr suit has. For instance the Minmatar suit can place a shield extender in and have vastly more shield HP and still have the 3 slots the Amarr suit has. I still can't quite understand why the Amarr suits have equal shielding and armor when in Eve Amarr have utterly poor shielding. It seems like a bit of an illogical jump. I'm talking total hp, not just shield or armor. If Minmatar medium puts a shield extender do they have more total HP? Also while others can use the slot for more customization, keep in mind these extra hit points don't take up any CPU/PG. And I'm with you, I'm not sure when Amarr became the race of balance. I understand it's a bonus for the suit for the EHP. However I'm not entirely convinced that the 30 or so HP in shielding is worth the value of a mod slot that all of the other medium class suits possess except the Amarrian version. But I do hope that there is atleast some change to it in the coming patches. It just doesn't sit right with having an Amarrian suit middle of the road for shields and armor.
Kirah Sommersord Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 6	Posted - 2013.05.08 12:01:00 - [4] - Quote Serah Phymne wrote: Don Von Hulio wrote: Serah Phymne wrote: The fact that Amarr suits are now omni tanks is stupid. The reason you don't do an omni tank in eve is because you can't focus on making both tanks work. Also why the hell are Amarr suits now shield tankers? What the hell is that about? Amarr have always been armour tank. And now you people are like "Yeah that totally makes sense" instead of "No it's never been like that and it's stupid." But this isnt EvE? And as of yet, the only way to effectively armor tank is when you are being backed by a logi. We only have a set number of suits and each of them have to be noticeably different from each other. Gallente = Armor Caldari = Shield Minmatar = Fast Amarr = Mid shield/Armor Amarr dosnt need to be changed, but some more suit variants could be added. No this is Eve. It is an online persistent shooter set in the Eve universe. Coming out with "It's not Eve" is blatantly wrong. Amarr have always been the Armor tanking race of the Eve universe far more than the Gallente have been. This is the equivalent of making the Caldari armor tankers. Gallente - Armor repair/Damage with Blasters/Drones Caldari - Shield buffer/Damage with Railguns/Missiles Minmatar - Shield boosting/ Damage with Autoguns/Fast Amarr - Armor buffer/Damage with Lasers/Drones It's not difficult to differentiate between the four races. To me it just seems like they lamed out at Amarr suits instead of putting a bit of effort into differentiating between the two shield tank races and the two armor tank races. One extra problem with the current setup for Amarr suits is that like in Eve, you now need to max out your SP in both Armor AND shield tanking in order to make the suit work. Which is just ridiculous since you only need to bother maxing out Shields for Mini's and Caldari and Armor for Gallente. Yet for the Amarr suit you're putting in over double the SP just to keep up with what the Gallente suit can do with more armor and 2 extra low slots. +1 really. It just doesn't make sense to me the current situation revolving around Amarrian medium dropsuits. Especially since they seem to have been potted into middle of the line jack of all trades which they have never been. I would love to see Amarrian suits as a premium buffer armor tank line with lasers and staying power where as Gallente suits as a fast and hard hitting suit with the ability to repair after the strike.
Kirah Sommersord Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2013.05.08 13:35:00 - [5] - Quote This needs a good bump.
Kirah Sommersord Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2013.05.08 15:10:00 - [6] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: And let's not forget about balance. Now we have three racial dropsuits with good shielding, but only one with good armor. Minmatar weapons are as useless as ever, and Amarr weapons will be as useful as ever. Honestly, who thought this was a good idea? +1 to this.
Kirah Sommersord Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2013.05.08 16:07:00 - [7] - Quote There reasonably needs to be some sort of balance. It seems strange that only one race has both good armor and good shielding where as the other three are reduced to either armor or shields. It also seems rather unbalanced to me. Talos notes that the system is good solely because armor tanking isn't viable at the moment. Well I have to agree with Serah in that just because the armor system needs balancing doesn't mean we should be giving shields to armor tanking races. In terms of the Eve universe however it seems rather unbelievable that the Amarr have worse armor than the Gallente. Balance wise it seems unreasonable that armor tanking is left only to the Gallente whilst shield tanking is split amongst three races. It would be more reasonable to make Amarrian suits Armor dependent to make the effectiveness of weapons like Ulysess points out, fair. At the moment it's not.
Kirah Sommersord Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2013.05.08 17:50:00 - [8] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: I agree that Amarr would have been the obvious choice for pure armor tanking, but what's the point debating it, swapping the art on amarr and gallente suits wouldn't change game play at all. It's as pointless as saying "The gallente suits don't look gallente to me, they need more green". This thread was about game balance after all, not lore. It's not that I'm arguing for a swap. What I'm arguing for is to make the Amarr suits a viable armor tanking alternative to the Gallente. As the Minmatar are for the Caldari at the moment. To make the Amarr an omni tank because it's easier to do so just doesn't seem right for me. In addition lore does play a role in this. Otherwise we wouldn't have any of the four races at all. It's not a terrible to look to lore as a guide line to designing not only the looks of the suits but their function as well since Eve has 10 years of background to fall on. We should be looking more toward Eve for balance equations with the suits and their bonuses/layouts.
Kirah Sommersord Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 10	Posted - 2013.05.09 08:45:00 - [9] - Quote Cruor Abominare wrote: ITT: people who haven't spent a second of their time theory crafting. Amarr medium suit is fine, hell it's got a 200 ehp lead when it comes to making worthwhile fits. Starts with higher base, has all the fitting stats of CPU,pg fill all it's slots. Other races start with less hp but get an extra slot, however with lower fitting resources they get to all spend 1 to 2 slots playing catch up on just pg andcpu to fit mods. Isn't the Gallente bonus to their suits fitting blasters anyway? So wouldn't that CPU/PG gap between them and Amarr be completely negated with their bonus?