DUST Search - Hey guys true thoughts on Tanks and Heavy here

Lurchasaurus wrote:

Zion Shad wrote:

Tanks: Ok looking through some post I see Railgun Scopes are not lining up with Shots and that the scope goes higher then the gun dose. How that happen?

CPU/PG Issues making Glass cannons

Heavys: HMG Range to low.

What about Forge Guns? Anything else?

Shad...here is the skinny on tanks.

#1 The tank turrets now have a max gun elevation and depression that is much slimmer than before. However, the maximum aiming on the turret is aligned with the turrets before the change, leading tankers who are uninformed or not used to the new aiming that they can aim where they are trying to shoot while the rounds they are firing are nowhere close. Basically, you can aim way up and down but your gun stops very close to 0 degrees straight forward so you never know where the gun will shoot on uneven terrain.

#2 Vehicle Engineering does not give its proper buff, while taking up more sp than before. grrr.

#3 Railgun range has been reduced, possibly leading tankers to wonder why they are shooting ghost rounds. Splash radius also seems to not be at 2.5 meters. It is closer to 1.5 meters ingame.

#4 Active vehicle scanners no longer have a visual animation.

#5 Due to the PG skill not working, tankers are unable to make a proper tank fit, while at the same time people are now full proto, leading to a very unbalanced match for tankers on day one, at least for me making these problems seem much bigger and unfair.

#6 didnt notice it myself, so cant say it is true, but i have seen people on the forums talking about CPU skill being broken as well.

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XxWarlordxX97 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1680	Posted - 2013.05.07 04:17:00 - [31] - Quote Big miku wrote: XxWarlordxX97 wrote: Heavy is trash But some people actually like trash. Heavy is now aids. They need to fix the HMG damage and give all the weapons more range
XxWarlordxX97 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1680	Posted - 2013.05.07 04:18:00 - [32] - Quote Big miku wrote: XxWarlordxX97 wrote: Heavy is trash But some people actually like trash. Heavy is now aids. Or the heavy has come to a end
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 845	Posted - 2013.05.07 04:21:00 - [33] - Quote XxWarlordxX97 wrote: Big miku wrote: XxWarlordxX97 wrote: Heavy is trash But some people actually like trash. Heavy is now aids. They need to fix the HMG damage and give all the weapons more range While I dont want to disagree, there is a new factor, and that is the fact that core skills no longer cross over between vehicle and infantry, so if you bring range buffs back to specced infantry, drivers/pilots/new players will be hopelessely outclassed. Especially considering the increased amount of sp needed to be relevant on foot. I dont disagree with any buffs nerfs to guns. Im actually diggin the changes to the gun elevation depression changes on my tank. It seems however that they ****** everyone up with the control handling changes. no one is happy there.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2730	Posted - 2013.05.07 04:22:00 - [34] - Quote Tanks: FIX THE PASSIVE SKILLS. Electronics and Engineering (+5% to CPU and PG respectively) are doing NOTHING. That alone should - almost - give us back our baseline tanks. Marauders are yet to return, and until they do, I doubt many Enforcers will show up. I may experiment with one, but I doubt it. There are other issues, but this is the main problem right now. Skilling into tanks, quite simply, does not work in the current state of Uprising. Heavies: FIX THE HMG. That's pretty much it. It's been over-nerfed to the point where a Militia Shotgun on a Dragonfly suit can stand in front of a Heavy and wear him down faster than the HMG can kill the Scout.
Zion Shad ZionTCD Unclaimed. 1721	Posted - 2013.05.07 04:26:00 - [35] - Quote Idea to run by you. What if they had diff ammo (like in eve) and had some that just shot longer range for less DMG. I know long ways away. So for now would you be happy with a skill like the old sharpshooter would be great with a 3% and not a 5%? This would give us more range and add to the CCP SP Sink to make both sides happy?
XxWarlordxX97 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1681	Posted - 2013.05.07 04:28:00 - [36] - Quote Zion Shad wrote: Idea to run by you. What if they had diff ammo (like in eve) and had some that just shot longer range for less DMG. I know long ways away. So for now would you be happy with a skill like the old sharpshooter would be great with a 3% and not a 5%? This would give us more range and add to the CCP SP Sink to make both sides happy? The Damage is what the HMG needs
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 845	Posted - 2013.05.07 04:31:00 - [37] - Quote Zion Shad wrote: Idea to run by you. What if they had diff ammo (like in eve) and had some that just shot longer range for less DMG. I know long ways away. So for now would you be happy with a skill like the old sharpshooter would be great with a 3% and not a 5%? This would give us more range and add to the CCP SP Sink to make both sides happy? No #1 Already different types of damage being energy, hybrid, projectile. missiles fall under projectile as far as armor damage is concerned. #2 With the new smaller maps and the removal of the fishbowl topography, redline sniping is at a minimum, taking away the need for ranged ammo. There are already ranged weapons. Unlike EVE, you can just go to a supply depot and get a sniper.
fred orpaul The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 257	Posted - 2013.05.07 04:35:00 - [38] - Quote non heavy user here but this is what I would like to see. I would like to see hmgs do 30ish damage a round out to 20-30m with a falloff that extends to 50-60m, that means at 40m you would be doing about 15-20 a round heavys lose .5 speed and sprint but gain 500 hp and heavy modules need to be implemented.
DS 10 G I A N T EoN. 256	Posted - 2013.05.07 04:35:00 - [39] - Quote Pre-Uprising HMGs were decent. You could do well with a basic fit. Now you pretty much HAVE to run either a Boundless or Freedom Assault HMG to do OKAY. This absolutely negates the price reduction. My MH82 Type 2 fit cost 76k. My Boundless Sentinel A/1 fit costs 71k and is far less effective. The bullet dispersion, lack of range, and damage reduction all at once was IMO too much. If there was an issue, nerf one at a time. Test it out. See what happens. I don't see why it's fair that Assault players can go 25-1 and be fine, but if a Heavy does it, we're OP and need a nerf. Someone else mentioned our movement vs strafe speed,so I won't go into that The lack of any true content for heavies is extremely disheartening and makes me wonder why CCP even has heavies in the game anymore. I chose to be a heavy because it's different than Assault. Now I feel like I'm being punished forgot following the hive mind The game is no longer fun. I shouldn't have to hide and hope someone comes up to 1v1 so I have a 50% chance of getting a kill. We went from a force to a laughingstock. Enemies just have to backpedal to stay alive. It's ridiculous I wanted Dust to last a while for me. Hell, I'm considering a partnership for my channel to make money for posting videos about the game. It just doesn't seem worth it if I'm just going to get screwed. I already have one job. I don't need another. Dust went from fun to a chore, literally overnight
Hawk Steel1 The Walking Targets 3	Posted - 2013.05.07 04:39:00 - [40] - Quote Sharpshooter for the Heavy Machine Gun needs to make a comeback. I figure i've got about 25m maximum effective range at the moment.

DS 10 G I A N T EoN. 258	Posted - 2013.05.07 04:40:00 - [41] - Quote Hawk Steel1 wrote: Sharpshooter for the Heavy Machine Gun needs to make a comeback. I figure i've got about 25m maximum effective range at the moment. That's generous.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 845	Posted - 2013.05.07 04:43:00 - [42] - Quote fred orpaul wrote: non heavy user here but this is what I would like to see. I would like to see hmgs do 30ish damage a round out to 20-30m with a falloff that extends to 50-60m, that means at 40m you would be doing about 15-20 a round heavys lose .5 speed and sprint but gain 500 hp and heavy modules need to be implemented. bet you would. id like to see my tank mounted railgun do more damage than a handheld gun. oh....
Eisen Sonnet S.e.V.e.N. Gentlemen's Agreement 5	Posted - 2013.05.07 04:46:00 - [43] - Quote Current feelings about Heavy/HMG build. The range on the HMG was lowered far more than I thought it would be. Right now it feels like shotgun range, as others have stated and I would place it's effective range at about 15ish meters. Any further out of that range the dps drops significantly. Also, the increase in HP that can be gained now =/= survivability. The increase in HP was too little compared to some of DPS weapons currently available, tanking is still not viable. With some of the larger open area maps we will have in the future a slow moving heavy with an extremely limited ranged weapon doesn't sound promising. In it's current state I think the HMG will be abandoned as defective and replaced by other weapons such as the forge gun.
Zion Shad ZionTCD Unclaimed. 1721	Posted - 2013.05.07 04:46:00 - [44] - Quote DS 10 wrote: Hawk Steel1 wrote: Sharpshooter for the Heavy Machine Gun needs to make a comeback. I figure i've got about 25m maximum effective range at the moment. That's generous. DS is Here! Now my Heavy Reps are almost complete.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 845	Posted - 2013.05.07 04:49:00 - [45] - Quote i do want to point out that while heavies probably cant tank like they used to while standing in enemy fire, the significantly higher pool of shields allows for a more dynamic health bar, giving more survivability than i ever thought you would get. hmg's aside, im jelly of that double 405.
DeathwindRising ROGUE SPADES EoN. 11	Posted - 2013.05.07 04:55:00 - [46] - Quote Lurchasaurus wrote: Zion Shad wrote: Tanks: Ok looking through some post I see Railgun Scopes are not lining up with Shots and that the scope goes higher then the gun dose. How that happen? CPU/PG Issues making Glass cannons Heavys: HMG Range to low. What about Forge Guns? Anything else? Shad...here is the skinny on tanks. #1 The tank turrets now have a max gun elevation and depression that is much slimmer than before. However, the maximum aiming on the turret is aligned with the turrets before the change, leading tankers who are uninformed or not used to the new aiming that they can aim where they are trying to shoot while the rounds they are firing are nowhere close. Basically, you can aim way up and down but your gun stops very close to 0 degrees straight forward so you never know where the gun will shoot on uneven terrain. #2 Vehicle Engineering does not give its proper buff, while taking up more sp than before. grrr. #3 Railgun range has been reduced, possibly leading tankers to wonder why they are shooting ghost rounds. Splash radius also seems to not be at 2.5 meters. It is closer to 1.5 meters ingame. #4 Active vehicle scanners no longer have a visual animation. #5 Due to the PG skill not working, tankers are unable to make a proper tank fit, while at the same time people are now full proto, leading to a very unbalanced match for tankers on day one, at least for me making these problems seem much bigger and unfair. #6 didnt notice it myself, so cant say it is true, but i have seen people on the forums talking about CPU skill being broken as well. vehicle armor skill doesnt work either
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 845	Posted - 2013.05.07 05:11:00 - [47] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: vehicle armor skill doesnt work either Not sure i'd believe that. My maddy has like 2900 armor or something like that, plus a 60mm plate giving it at most 800 extra armor. with just those two things, being the only things giving extra armor aside form you allegedly broken skill, i would max out at about 3700 armor. I have about 4500 armor i believe, not sure stopped playing an hour or two ago. it hurts too much... :(
KaoticKrusader D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire 5	Posted - 2013.05.07 05:14:00 - [48] - Quote As a heavy, I agree. The range on hmg is horrendous. I literally lol as soon as I realize how its maxed range. I was also taken back by the damage nerfed aswell. It wasn't like we the rpm of bullet spread was working before lol. Forge gun however is fine as is. Only change that was made is the charge reticle. It is no longer in the center. Just getting use to seeing it on your ammo hud
Zion Shad ZionTCD Unclaimed. 1721	Posted - 2013.05.07 05:46:00 - [49] - Quote I just turn around and run out of range and then turn back and shoot the heavy.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 1437	Posted - 2013.05.07 06:17:00 - [50] - Quote Hey my review got mentioned I hope CCP at least acknowledges there's a problem. There's ALLOT of people angry over this, and allot of people changing roles. Hell, I'm rocking an Amarr Medium suit now. My fully decked out Basic Proto suit, Proto HMG's... just sitting there collecting...yes you guessed it, DUST. The class is no longer fun to use.

Levi McDaniel The Phoenix Federation 9	Posted - 2013.05.07 07:09:00 - [51] - Quote I absolutely hate getting killed by heavies, their HMG's destroying my suit like it was paper thin. There weapons were so powerful. I would get killed in seconds AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHY I LOVE THEM. As a guy who primarily runs Logistics, it's nice having a Heavy there protecting you blasting away at the enemy, coming to the rescue, not to mention the points for repairing his extremely huge amount of armor. Please bring back the original specs for all the weapons, none of them needed to be nerfed, everyone had the option (MORE IMPORTANTLY A PURPOSE) of specing into any weapon.
Snagman 313 Carbon 7 62	Posted - 2013.05.07 07:50:00 - [52] - Quote Morning lads, I decided to sleep before writing up a review on the Heavy and HMG just so as I didn't end up on a rant. So I'll try and view this as objectively as I can even though I've been on the wrong end of the nerf hammer since replication. Ok first up the HMG, now we have had our damage cut but 2 points across the range on HMGs so a standard now does 14 adv does 15 and proto does 15.6 so a 12.5% damage reduction which is certainly not minor although it is possible to buff it back up to old damage levels but requires you to sink a lot of SP in HMG proficiency and get a damage mod onboard. Moving onto the range reduction, now with all weapons having sharpshooter removed I think all weapons are on a level playing field and was a good move by CCP so as to allow new players a chance in game who don't have the sharpshooter skill levelled up yet. However the range nerf that was applied to it has hindered the HMG quite a bit, now it's not completely dead as some may say but it now means that you need to be very close to use it effectively. I can't give you exact numbers on range but I did manage one kill with it at 33 meters but it took about 100 rounds and the target had less than a 1/4 armour (I believe this is more about the bullet spread at range but is compounded by the damage reduction) but most of my kills where inside 10 meters which is what I would say is now the optimal range as even firing over a standard width road at a target generally just draws more fire onto yourself. Death mode, currently this is really only good if the enemy isn't moving much since you need to get close in the first place and even a short movement can throw you off. Also the speed at which you can track a target seems to have been reduced, I couldn't even keep up with a target running normally at close range so don't know what's going on there as I didn't get a chance to discuss this with anyone last night. The new animation to get into view is longer so I really stopped using it in most situations that I found myself in. I used to use this mode a lot especially when I used to put up a beating zone for my squad (when we had sharpshooter you see) and it did work quite well in the last build as I could generally hold 2-3 redberries in cover if I did my bit. Ok now I found the heavy last night to be quite a different animal from before and not totally broken either but it took a lot of work on my part and a reassignment of some of my skill points. I did quite well by staying close to my squad and making sure they didn't leave an area without me I also found the new spawn system was quite good at allowing me to drop in on objectives that where about to be taken, now this was where I really did quite well last night up close with lot's of cover and only fleeting shots. The HP buff did seem to help as well and I did notice a bigger difference in damage received from different weapon types, certainly lasers ate my shields but choked on my armour and I found against the Gallente assault suits once through their lighter shields I took them apart with the HMG whereas Shield types caused me a lot of grief. So not too bad as I kept my KDR positive all last night somehow even against a full team of Betamax. Now here's how I see the current situation, with regards to the HMG I think it will have to be buffed in the short run as new players will have a very bad time with it in it's current form, I managed with it but I have been playing since last June. However I believe it was nerfed to make room for upcoming gear (convoluted but I'll get to that) which is all well and good but the heavy class has no new gear coming for a while and leaves it open to getting stomped into the ground. Now looking at the gear we have now 1 raicial type heavy suit and 2 heavy weapons, one which is a hybrid damage type AV and the other a conventional damage type AP. If we also had a hybrid weapon for anti personnel use with medium range (as the Assault guys have the AR kinda thing) then a heavy could put up a beating zone and allow the assault guys to move up and take out the enemy and then it would balance out with having the option to switch to the HMG for close up work and holding choke points. But we don't we only have one weapon to try and do both these roles which might not be what the grand plan for the heavy is but since we can't run and gun with the rest of the guys we should be able to provide some form of cover fire whether or not there's a long range support weapon coming up. I didn't get a chance to look at the Assault version of the HMG last night but I doubt it'll have anywhere near the damage or accuracy required to make people get into cover. The only route to go for such a thing right now is to spec into light weapons such as AR, LR, MD or the upcoming Scrambler rifle and Plasma cannon but you would do a lot better to use an assault suit with these weapons as you're more mobile and you can equip more damage mods (even with the penalty) and carry a nanohive for ammo neither of which a heavy can do as we now have a max of 2 high slots on the basic suit and only 1 on the sentinel type with no equipment slots. So unless the new weapons and suits are coming soon I'm afraid with this HMG nerf the HMG heavy will not die but become a one trick pony. Also the Sentinel suits bonus that reduces feedback damage is pretty pointless right now, as unless the damage from a laser rifle overheat (50 hp) has be increased hugely a possible reduction of I think it was 25% means sod all to a heavy with over 1k hitpoints. If they bring out a Scrambler/Laser/Arc cannon that does over 250 hp when it overheats then yeah but currently no. On a lighter note the FG heavy is alive and well quite capable of killing tanks which is most likely what I'll be using the heavy for from now on. Regards Snagman
Zion Shad ZionTCD Unclaimed. 1721	Posted - 2013.05.07 13:32:00 - [53] - Quote Thanks Snagman for the feedback bro. Keep running through the game and lets get the numbers CCP needs to make a correction. One thing here is try not to give up so soon
Tiberion Deci Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 110	Posted - 2013.05.07 13:49:00 - [54] - Quote Lurchasaurus wrote: i do want to point out that whilb heavies probably cant tank like they used to while standing in enemy fire, the significantly higher pool of shields allows for a more dynamic health bar, giving more survivability than i ever thought you would get. hmg's aside, im jelly of that double 405. 1) heavies couldn't really tank before 2) the redistribution of shields and armor is nice, but its FAR overshadowed by the fact that out class' s featured weapon has an effective range somewhere between throwing a rock and throwing a water balloon. 3) HMG is doo doo butter
NAV HIV The Generals EoN. 197	Posted - 2013.05.07 14:06:00 - [55] - Quote I thought they would make the heavies a bit stronger. I am not a heavy, but i always enjoyed a fight against heavies. They were weak as it is, why did they have to make them weaker. AR range (Sharpshooter) has been nerfed, so i cant shoot heavies from sniping distance anymore, but heavy range is even worse. They should atleast make it close to AR range. That would give them a fighting chance. don't like Heavies with anything other than a fully powered HMG
HowDidThatTaste Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2434	Posted - 2013.05.07 14:24:00 - [56] - Quote Quote: <[CCP]Wolfman>: when it comes to the HMG, we're just going to watch the numbers and see how it performs Quote: <[CCP]Wolfman>: we will be watching the HMG stats to see how things perform. Then we'll make a decision on whether or not to make any further tweaks. I have enjoyed playing as a heavy from the beginning of this game. I'm not sure what the numbers can tell you about enjoyment levels. Listen to the people who have given you detailed feedback. It is no longer enjoyable to use the hmg the range is way to low to be effective, spending most of the match stationary or running real slow to the next fight only to die before getting in optimal range. Lots of work = not fun. Changing the base damage means if I do get close enough to someone to shoot it takes dang near every shot in my gun with proficiency five to take someone down. I reload twice as much, and am gimped for the next fight. If I was somehow able to kill someone it is usually with help someone else's help and I only got an assist for my efforts. = more reloading less kills = not so much fun. Not sure what else has happened but my overall view of the LIne of View has decreased increasing my blind spots of people shooting me from outside of my spacial awareness. Which really doesn't matter cause they are out if my range to fire back anyway, can't run away because well im fat, can't turn and fire at them to hopefully scare them off cause well I cant see them. Besides they would giggle at my marsh mellow firing hmg and still put me down= not so much fun. Decreasing the staife ability of the heavy on top of the above mentioned means that what is supposed to be my optimal kill range which is now 15-29 m at best. We are back to the hopping Scott/assault and even logie. For what ever reason with my settings to a 100 I can get out straifed in my "close combat kill zone role". I thought we get rid of this a few builds ago. So now that my damage is gone I can't protect myself from bugs bunny logie! This is extremely no fun= can't run away from them can't turn fast enough to track them, can't shoot enough damage to kill them= no fun. I think that the numbers may not reflect the sum of all the changes made at once please forget the numbers and listen to the players! It is not fun or enjoyable to play the HMG. How will you track the numbers when there is less players using the hmg?
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER TeamPlayers EoN. 196	Posted - 2013.05.07 14:27:00 - [57] - Quote some very insightful views here, all of which are accurate. I"ll try to add to them, as repeating just makes reading more tedious. they buffed the HP on the suits, took away the option for armor or shields.. ALL suits are now shields. the kicker here is this: all suits are shield variants, with lower shield recharge than shield suits before, AND movement that was the same as the ARMOR suits from before. Heavies used shield suits as they liked the innate mobility over the more stationary armor variant. this adversely affects CQC battles, the ONLY thing the HMG is supposed to be proficient at now. Heavy is a sitting duck in all situations currently. HMG.. I think enough has been said to get the point across that its an oversized paper weight currently. I haven't even tried the cheaper guns, only the boundless, and while damage is decent in range.. the only ppl getting close enough to kill are shotgunners and nova knifers. I can get kills with nades at greater range than an HMG... sad sad truth. Forge: I spent most the night running around with a forge, cause it at LEAST has some range to it. I can actually kill the AR user across the street beating me up that I cant even touch with an HMG. Range has been decreased, as with everything, and while I think the range is a little too low, its at least viable. splash damage... junk. Don't know what happened, but the 2.5m splash damage for the ishukone is maybe effectively 1m. Moving the charge indicator to the ammo box on the right of the screen is just silly. you are aiming through the sight, and if you take your eye off that to see the charge you lose your aim. Killing with a forge is insanely difficult, but fun and vastly rewarding due to its difficulty. now you have to hit someone dead on to do damage. i'm a heavy, not changing that. My biggest gripe in the past were all the fools running around with a heavy suit and a non-heavy weapon. As it stands now, that is all you will be seeing if changes are not made very soon.
Polish Hammer Conspiratus Immortalis League of Infamy 351	Posted - 2013.05.07 14:32:00 - [58] - Quote My two cents (for what it's worth): After playing more matches this morning and last night, it seems as though: 1) You must have a logi at your back in every gun fight, even if it's against one person. The strafe running coupled with what is looking more like hit detection (or lack thereof) is making even close range engagement awful. 2) The prevalence of Prototype Scout suits that can greatly out maneuver heavies in CQC is making it less and less justifiable to pull out a heavy suit in any match. 3) As stated above, hit detection seems to be lacking and i'm not sure if it's due to the introduction of sprint strafing or not. I've spent half clips into people with nothing to show for it except a lost suit, even when they're standing still I can't quite think of any more, but that's what i've noticed and could think of thus far.
KaoticKrusader D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire 6	Posted - 2013.05.07 14:35:00 - [59] - Quote I made this post, but it got deleted. I believe CCP deliberately "over-nerfed" the heavies to test out the new and improve logi or to encourage more logi users. Who benefited the most from the build? I say logi, but they deserved and need it. Nothing against them. What is a good way to test them? I don't know, how bout a class with high armor. Whoa, an Amarr class that is armor based. I know and believed CCP could give us at least 2 class to choose from. Now we cannot do anything without a leash, literally. Before we could get away without a logi help. Why you hardly see any logi in corp battles. Well, that's my 2 cent
GoD-NoVa Imperfects Negative-Feedback 288	Posted - 2013.05.07 14:35:00 - [60] - Quote HMGs are fine they are now close quater weapons, AR are supposed to beat them at distance learn how to play heavies



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