Fair doesn't mean feasible to implement.

Why is this such a big deal? I bought a Merc pack and dont really care.

@Ludvig Enraga, hmm. They didn't charge anyone for access to the Beta. Did someone scam you, Ludvig? Beta users were free to purchase the Merc Packs or not. I know many players that have never spent anything on the game as well as some that have spent a sizable amount. Near the end of the closed Beta Sony PS+ members were given Beta Keys for free. I got mine elsewhere many months before that and it was free as well. There wasn't even a Merc Pack available to buy when I started.

The terms of service from Sony PS Store are clear. As is the End User Agreement. The Legal claims are being made by persons that speak as if they have no experience with the law nor the legal system. IANAL should be the standard disclaimer on these topics.

The definition of the refund could have been clearer but first you have to realize that a character reset for everybody will cause many to leave. We have worked to get the SP and I don't want to give it back to just restart a cheap Merc Pack. I believe that this is a reasonable solution and indeed is the only solution that would satisfy all. Some will still be unhappy but they will have their chance to take the offer or not.

Nice to see they went with my suggested solution to the issue. ;)

For this to be done right there needs to be a reset at commercial release and all merc packs and aur refunded.

They should have just replaced the booster and Aur with a nunch of useless neo suits

Still a **** move, but that would have been funnier.

Buckets and buckets of tears~

Bought my merc packs and used them. I'm not greedy and really they are chump change for me. I will be earning more than what I will save if I just put the time I would use complaining into real life stuff.

So for all those illiterates, who are too slow to comprehend, those who just are too greedy for their own good and/or just plain stupid. SUCK IT!

CCP didn't pull one on you, you pulled one on your entitled self.

*IMPORTANT NOTICE: During beta periods, CCP may need to reset characters, skills and other items included in the DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack. DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release. CCP cannot guarantee all items will be identical and reserves the right to substitute items of similar value. No other form of refund is permitted.

Because I shouldn't have to choose between my sp and aur/merc parks that i bought during the beta. It clearly said I would get it ALL back at commercial release. The best way is to reset the game and refund everybody. And another reason is because the game was in beta and 98% of the time when beta's ends everything is reset. Simple

There should be wipe at commercial release because we have been testing in a beta. So to get my aur/merc packs back i have to be punished?

Fairness is something that doesn't exist in the real world and sure as **** doesn't exist in New Eden.

The deal is, the normal layman, if they were here from closed beta on, would understand that every refund was connected to a full SP reset of the character. It was not about KEEPING all gained SP and having those Merc Packs refunded. So that is fair if one were to take a moment, leave the bruised ego at the door, and be realizing of the trend that was set by our previous experiences with CCP.

On the other hand, all the QQ'ers want their cake and to eat it to, which as all of us knows is an impossibility.

SO, step away from the tablet of unreasonability and engage the brain for a moment.

THAT is ALL!

I know there are EULAs out there that will counter this especially since they did give an announcement during the last reset that it will be the last one and that includes the merc pack.

Besides, CCP already bent backwards giving you the option for an autumn reset. But also gave you the finger by resetting your SP :-p

I don't see the conundrum here. If they reset everyone at release who loses out? If they don't, who loses out there? All the ranting is just getting confusing now.

If I read the dev blog properly, if you bought merc packs or aurum, on May 6th you get to keep the items you bought which in short means you keep the SP. Why would anyone want a refund? If you go by what the terms of the agreement say, it says that you would be refunded upon respecs and commercial release. Taking this into account means you would lose the boosters that you used to gain SP, so refunding the packs would mean losing your extra Skill Points. So really, what is the fight over? Why would anyone want to lose their SP they grinded out?

In that case, I would say that IF anyone bought items, then Activated those items, then proceeded to Delete their character (no matter what the reason is) then they indeed forfeit said Items on that character. Infact, when you redeem items on your character, it says those Items cannot be switched between new characters anyway, so in this case you should be entitled to nothing being re-imbersed in this scenario.

SIDE NOTE: CCP makes EVE Online, so most of the same mothods will apply here. All EVE players know (or at the very least should) that character DELETION is a bad idea, you lose everything, time, ISK, Assets, and Skills aquired. What THIS scenario demonstrates is the equivilant to someone playing EVE Online for a year, then deciding they don't like the play or that they skilled up wrong, then deleting the character and asking for the game time back. So The character deletion scenario is completely moot as a basis of argument.


Now as for anything els, I'm open, just lost. I have 3 characters on Dust. 2 experimental and a main, I've bought a few merc packs just for the value vs. Aurum. But I keep all my SP upon respec on May6th. Is this correct or am I reading all these posts wrong? Is I'm correct, then I don't need or want a refund. If I'm not, then I'd like to know where my thinking is flawed.

Isn't that what they are doing? You can get either the refund or the skills, right?

Nonsense, anyone in their right mind would have assumed there would be a reset on commercial release in order to have a level playing field upon game launch.

Since then, CCP has found a way not to have to do this -- by changing the skills and SP requirements -- and now they have OFFERED you the option of not resetting. However, if you want to do the reset/refund they will let you.

Cry me a freaking river.

LOL. All of that off the word "and" huh? Keep trying and keep crying.

This thread makes me smile. I like how none of these entitled proles even mention that a refund hasn't happened so far without some form of reset. They argue the meaningless semantics of a EULA that is clearly against them in this case.

Well it obviously wasn't clear.............

Either way you slice this up, it looks like people are wanting to be reimbersed all items and keep all the SP.

Im sure there is some math whiz with an algorythm of some kind to compute what I'm about to say.

I agree with you on the Booster/SP equivilancy idea. However, perhaps CCP is trying to be fair in this "Optional Reset". I say this becasue it can be argued that the boosters have been used. Since you can't trade them right now, it would make no sense to have a stock pile of them anyway. But the boosters give you a 50% bonus to your SP both active and passive. This equates to a SP Gained*1.5=X. Now the argument can be made that the SP you gained is increased soley by the skills and equipment you can use during a battle and that being responsible for more SP gain, where as you wouldn't have achieved with out SP being boosted. So in reality you only took a fraction of time, over time, to get to your current state.

For those with aching brains, lets put this into a simple equation. Im going to just use this as an example, No, the numbers won't be exactly accruate.

Say it takes 30 seconds to solo hack an installation without the hacking skill. To hack 10 installations will take 300 seconds. The hacking skill gives you a bonus of 5%. Say (Just for easier math here guys) it takes 200,000SP to get to lvl 5 Hacking which gives you a bonus of 25%. So we have here:

0SP: 10 installations hacked in 300 seconds totalling 500 War Points
200,000SP: 25% bonus= 13 installations hacked in (Under) 300 seconds totalling 650 War points
200,000SP + Proto Hack Module: 50% Bonus= 20 installations hacked in 300 seconds totalling 1000 War Points

Now (in this equation) with out boosters, you would need the whole 200,000 SP to reach Hacking 5. However with Boosters, that 50% bonus means you really only need 133,334SP to reach your 200,000SP mark, so you actually earn more SP in battle on top of the 50%SP boost.


So, in doing all this math, I think CCP is being rather fair in offering the reset. Otherwise you wouldn't have nearly 1/4 the skills that you do, (since you wouldn't have gotten to where you are with out better skills and eqipment in the first placeand it's OPTIONAL. Either way you slice it up, I still think they're being fair.

LOL. I have seen this too.

Some of you are trying to draw a distinction between resets and the commercial release. However, once again for the mentally deficient, the use of "and" is not generally meant to exclude something but to include something. The commercial release is being lumped into the list as a similar item -- not as something different.

Obviously, during development there will be resets and similarly upon commercial release.

Only, it turns out, the new SP revamp means we don't have to be reset. So, you can still choose the reset if you wish to - and now you are crying because those of us who don't want to choose the reset will keep our SP.

Blah blah blah. Cry away... my cup runneth over.

The only thing that is clear in this is that CCP says it will credit your merc pack in full, but also says that some items can be changed. so maybe all this thread is for nothing, How many people will be upset if they give you everything but the booster?

LOL. You are reinterpreting the legalese based on a later comment. It doesn't work that way.

CCP has come up with a way to OFFER us not to require a reset on commercial. Most of us are more than happy to take that OFFER. However, for those that are not they have left the option to reset and refund.

Make your choice and quit crying.

It doesn't matter what they "stated" later in relation to the interpretation of the Merc Pack legalese. I suspect the non-answers were something that people should have considered a little more carefully.

About this time people with mommy's for lawyers chimed in stating that CCP had better refund them or go to court and so forth. Frankly, I'm just happy they found a way to not force everyone to be reset. There never was any way that people would be able to get a refund without a reset.

Anyone with a brain understood that all along.

I understand you think it isn't fair that you'd have to give up SP to get a refund. Too bad. It's a done deal and we are all just waiting for the tears to stop flowing.

greedy scumbags. People who buy the merc pack after official release are getting only 1 set of the items containing in it. So why should we be different? And yes ive bought the merc pack in the closed beta aswell. And im not demanding a second merc pack for free cause its silly, ignorant and selfish. And to be honest i wont need it cause all the BPO's that i bought for 30 AUR a piece are now worth a fortune and i will get enough AUR tomorrow to supply myself 5 months worth off active and passive boosters. Thats more value then the mercpacks itself where worth. To be precise i get AUR worth probs over 100Gé¼+. So i made profit. So do the people who where aswell smat enough to buy all militia BPO's

Maybe you should look up the definition of explicit. Then reread the Merc Pack terms.

Look, in reading the above it is very clear (to many) that there is certainly an implication present. The two events are clearly related in some way.

Yes, but again, you are assuming that a commercial release would not be expected to cause a reset. When there are resets without commercial releases it seems pretty likely that a commercial release would also require a reset. Who thought they'd get through beta and come out without some adjustment related to equalization?

I am not saying a commercial release IS a reset. The daftness is strong in you. I'm saying that you can't expect a commercial release without a reset. The fact that CCP found a way to offer a bonus to beta testers later on is simply a bonus.

Now, you don't have to go through a reset if you don't want to. You've been given a choice. Take it, leave it, or whine for eternity. The choice is yours.

Nonsense. You are missing the point. If you buy something from me and I offer X later I can make a different offer later, say Y, and you can choose between X and Y. That's always allowed.