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Aighun
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
810
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Posted - 2013.05.04 18:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
A request for true active skill progression to replace the current system.
A proposal for such a system:
Progressive SP earnings for warpoints with a fixed upper limit.
Ladder style SP earnings bonus.
Comments, questions, and any other replies encouraged. |
Aighun
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
811
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 03:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
I have read the dev-blog. Many times. Would be interested to hear how you think it relates to what I am proposing?
I am looking forward to all the new ways we will be able to spend our skill points.
It would be a big and I believe welcome change and really benefit the game if the way we earned skill points was also changed.
Basically in Dust 514 we have passive skill point accrual where we gain skill points over time whether we are logged in or not, playing the game, in battles, or just sitting in merc quarters shooting the breeze with our corp mates.
And we have so called active skilling. This active skilling system is the one I am proposing we get rid of. It is just another form of passive skilling, where you accrue skill points from choosing a battle from the battle menu, and starting that battle. You basically get skill points from the moment you join the battle until it is over. You also get a few extra skill points for earning war points.
If CCP are going to get rid of this base reward that is a measure of time spent in battle and nothing else then great. Would appreciate any links or relevant information.
But what would be better getting skill points for time spent in battle is if, for active skilling we received a certain amount of skill points for the war points that we earned. And only received "active" skill points for war points.
Not my idea. Not a new idea.
Here are links to a couple threads that got me thinking about the whole active skilling thing.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=72224&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=71694 |
Aighun
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
813
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Posted - 2013.05.05 13:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
What is true active skilling?
Simple. You have to earn war points to get skill points.
What is a progressive skill points per war point rewards system?
Everything in Dust has value. You get war points for interacting with those things. The higher the value of your target, the more SP you get for war points earned.
For example, if you blow up a militia tank, you don't get that many skill points. But if you blow up an advanced tank you get a a lot of skill points.
For all the gear in DUST, you might base the skill points earned for war points on the meta level of the target.
Since other players are also targets, they would have an additional value based on total skill points of the character. A player with a lot of skill points running all militia gear would still be a high value target.
This is why there would also need to be a set upper limit on the amour of skill points per warpoints. THe skill point per war point value of a player target would eventually hit the limit and wouldn't go up after that.
How would this work in practice?
If you kill a player in militia gear, you might get 1 skill point for every war point you earned with that kill.
If you kill a player in prototype gear you might get 5 skill points for every war point you earned for that kill.
If that same prototype player had 30,000,000 skill points you might get 7 war points per kill.
It would work the same for hacking. Reviving teammates. Using armor repair tools.
For nanohives, the higher the meta level of the weapon that received the ammo refill, the more skill points per war point you would get.
A progressive skill point per war point earnings system. Where the higher the value of your target, the more skill points you earn.
What about the ladder bonus?
Players with less SP would get bonus skill points for higher value targets.
Looking at our example above we have the payout per war point for prototype gear at 5 skill points per war point. If your character had 20,000 skill points and that prototype player had 5,000,000 skill points you might get a total of 7 skill points per war point for that kill. If the prototype player had 30,000,000 SP you might get 12 skill points per warping. If the prototype player had 3,000,000,000 skill points you might get a total of 15 skill points per war point for that kill.
The higher up the ladder the player you are fighting against, the more skill points you earn if you take them down. The ladder bonus would have no upper limit.
Boosters would work the same, they would just increase your end of match earnings after all your SP was tallied.
An armchair game designer solution to the current lack of active skilling. THis would be a vast improvement over the current system where you primarily earn SP based on time in battle. No matter what you do. It also sets up some risk v. reward dynamics that give players incentive to fight against players at their same level, or a higher level, and makes it less rewarding to fight lower level players. Also AFK SP farming? Gone. Done. All taken care of.
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Aighun
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
819
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Posted - 2013.05.05 15:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:I'm glad you're addressing this Aighun. I think that if more peeps understood how warpoints were created and dispensed there would be a larger constituency on the forums looking for change.
I just wanted to add that struggling players will have access to npc rogue drone missions at some point. This should help take a bit of the pressure off your ladder mechanic.
I like your idea. Amongst other things, it would incentivise new players to look for slightly harder fights/encounters to increase their sp/match. And they'd be thinking harder about how to win those encounters, since now they had a self-generated goal and a clear objective.
Thanks for the feedback.
PVE is really important for the game as a whole. Giving players something to shoot at besides other players will really benefit the game and help it to appeal to an even broader audience.
And it would be farily simple and straightforward to reward a set amount of SP for each of different types of drones you could destroy.
10 sp per "militia" drone.
100 sp for a "boss" drone that took teamwork and a few minutes to destroy.
Just to throw ot some numbers off the top of my head.
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Aighun
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
819
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 19:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:A progressive sp gain system sounds like a good idea but one downfall to it could be an unintended bounty on higher sp characters. This could lead to things like a whole team all just trying to kill the higher sp character and to hell with the rest of the enemies in pub matches. I like the idea of progressive sp gain though I think it may at some point put upper sp characters at a plateau where they have to kill way too many more people than the lower level players to progress in the game and be less rewarding for them long term.
Good points.
Part of the idea is that if you take your high SP character into a pub match you do become the biggest target in that battle. Low SP players teaming up to mob high SP players in pub matches is exactly the kind of thing that could happen.
But for the "ladder bonus" there would have to be some decisions about how to reveal or if you should reveal the total SP any particular character had. I think it should be hidden. Or a challenge to figure out, so if you did kill that player with 30,000,000 SP the bonus would be a pleasant surprise. It is not something you would know just by looking at the player on the field.
There is a definite plateau. Basically the idea is that higher level players will make the maximum possible SP fighting other high level players. But will not get much out of wading in the kiddie pool. Also, it would make it more viable for high SP players to dedicate time to game modes like planetary conquest. Corporation battles take a lot of time to organize, there is more sitting around waiting for the fight to start, and this way high level players will not feel like they are missing out on SP they could be earning just by spamming a lot of instant battles in a row.
A brand new player can jump right in to the deep end of the pool, and will get some a quick boost in SP for taking risks and fighting in high level battles (if they can find them) but the hope is that they will find their natural niche and the bonus will taper off. That way, your first few months can be kind of a rush, and then you start to get into the groove.
Even though the ladder bonus would not have an upper limit, the amount should taper off so that in 5 to 10 years you don't see players getting something like hundreds of SP per war point bonuses. Hopefully avoid a situation where players set up SP farms for low level players to shoot high level SP players just so they can SP boost.
Ladder bonus sounds more positive and is more upbeat than "ladder penalty" but it might have to be reversed so that high level players see diminished SP payouts for killing, or interacting with low value targets.
Thanks for your feedback. It is fun to take apart this system and see how, or if it would work. |
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