DUST Search - [Request] Turn all AV weapons to Heavy weapons

Cosgar wrote:

Vaerana Myshtana wrote:

No.

Please study the circle of life before posting:

Vehicles > Infantry > AV > Vehicles

But at the same time specialization needs to be > than versatility. AV is a specialization. It should reward a player for going into that role to be the best person on that field to be the effective counter to another role, in this case vehicles. Having the ability to use better AV weapons should give that player an advantage over someone that only dabbles in that role vs specializing, in this case AV grenades. The grenade variant is versatile, but also just as effective if not more than the entire AV specialization. Again, if everyone can carry AV grenades that do the same job if not better than the whole AV role at the fraction of the investment, why have an AV role at all. Giving up a light weapon slot for AV capabilities should be more rewarding than someone that can continue to be on the field as infantry with a powerful AV of their own 100% of the time. This makes the AV role itself obsolete because they can't fulfill their role because the lesser investment for versatility exceeds the need for specialization.

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Xender17 Oblivion S.G.X 46	Posted - 2013.05.03 20:12:00 - [1] - Quote I think you should have to skill into the role in order use AV weapons. AV isn't very role specific other than forge gun...(The only AV heavy weapon.) Isn't the heavy class meant to be AV or at least Mega anti-infantry. Now any suit can skill into a Swarm or plasma cannon. Also anyone can carry AV grenades... Which don't require role specific specialization. Dust was originally meant to be a role-specific/specialization MMO. Also team based. It should take more than proto AV player to take out a tank. Also it should take a full tank to go on a rampage rather than 1 person in the tank. Tankers spend 500,000+ isk and a lot more SP than other players. However someone who skills into a AV of the same series/level of the enemy tank, can currently take out that tank for overall less SP/ISK.
Mary Sedillo XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S 13	Posted - 2013.05.03 20:17:00 - [2] - Quote Xender17 wrote: I think you should have to skill into the role in order use AV weapons. AV isn't very role specific other than forge gun...(The only AV heavy weapon.) Isn't the heavy class meant to be AV or at least Mega anti-infantry. Now any suit can skill into a Swarm or plasma cannon. Also anyone can carry AV grenades... Which don't require role specific specialization. Dust was originally meant to be a role-specific/specialization MMO. Also team based. It should take more than proto AV player to take out a tank. Also it should take a full tank to go on a rampage rather than 1 person in the tank. Tankers spend 500,000+ isk and a lot more SP than other players. However someone who skills into a AV of the same series/level of the enemy tank, can currently take out that tank for overall less SP/ISK. Its part of the balance. I run tanks and prototype dropships. I don't run my top-tier stuff unless I have a good squad at my back and the blueberries have half a sense of what they are doing. Without AV, tanks, ships, buggies, would rule ALL. The amount of AV they do have I think is appropriate to the threat we bring to the table. Ever see what happens to the opposing side when they have no adequate AV? Tanks overrun them! Anyways.
Ivan Avogadro Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 153	Posted - 2013.05.03 20:28:00 - [3] - Quote Do you know what happens to me when I spawn in with my Swarm Launcher to take out the tank? I end up hoofing around looking for a Supply Depot because my big honking gun is useless now. With only my trusty militia level pistol for protection, I've effectively turned myself into GEK food all for ~200 WP. AV already is a specialization, and using it has drawbacks.
DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 148	Posted - 2013.05.03 20:36:00 - [4] - Quote No!... If someone is that far spec'd into AV then they will have nothing but an SMG or scrambler pistol to deal with infantry. If your infantry can not take them out then your team is doing it wrong Vehicles>Infantry>AV>Vehicles See how it all comes full circle? Ivan hit the nail on the head +1
Goric Rumis Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 162	Posted - 2013.05.03 21:03:00 - [5] - Quote Agree with Ivan on this one. The best AV should always go to heavies, but everyone else shouldn't be left defenseless. And putting a swarm launcher on a heavy would be nothing short of insane. I'd rather have that sucker on a militia scout than on a proto heavy. I do think AV grenades are a problem for people who spec into AV, but the specs for the new suits look like they've divided grenades into light, medium, and heavy slots, so maybe we'll be getting toned-down AV grenades on the normal suits. They may also be requiring specialization into grenade types.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Orion Empire 40	Posted - 2013.05.03 22:40:00 - [6] - Quote The Dragon Anti-Tank missile fired from a FGM-148 Javelin is $80,000. The Abrams tank that it destroys is over $6,000,000. It is the curve of the battlefield; one war defense is easier than destroying (World War I trench combat), another destroying is much easier (World War II with accurate artillery, carpet bombing, and even nuclear weaponry). Real world aside, there is some specialization in regards to AV weaponry. I have seen countless Tanks sit there and laugh at Militia Swarms. They tend to sit there and take it and just shoot the Swarmers when they pop out of cover. Advanced and Higher Swarm Launchers will get their attention real, real quick and get them running for the hills. "Skilling into the Role" is exactly what they are doing. They are using a Suit and firing Swarm Launchers. If you are suggesting that shooting an Advanced Swarm Launcher from the suit you use anyway is not Skilling into the Role, then shooting an advanced Forge Gun from a Militia Heavy Suit or the Heavy Suit you use all the time anyway isn't Skilling into the Role either. Be well.
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 1060	Posted - 2013.05.03 23:36:00 - [7] - Quote Xender17 wrote: I think you should have to skill into the role in order use AV weapons. AV isn't very role specific other than forge gun...(The only AV heavy weapon.) Isn't the heavy class meant to be AV or at least Mega anti-infantry. Now any suit can skill into a Swarm or plasma cannon. Also anyone can carry AV grenades... Which don't require role specific specialization. Dust was originally meant to be a role-specific/specialization MMO. Also team based. It should take more than proto AV player to take out a tank. Also it should take a full tank to go on a rampage rather than 1 person in the tank. Tankers spend 500,000+ isk and a lot more SP than other players. However someone who skills into a AV of the same series/level of the enemy tank, can currently take out that tank for overall less SP/ISK. Two things: 1) A team is literally boned if they don't have a heavy on their side to deter an HAV. They will lose the match. Nothing they can do. 2) Get rid of HMGs and don't allow heavies to carry light weapons and sidearms while you're at it.
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 715	Posted - 2013.05.04 03:34:00 - [8] - Quote When will you people realize isk isn't a balancing point.
Coleman Gray GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 220	Posted - 2013.05.04 06:21:00 - [9] - Quote I actually agree with this, it'd make people wanna play other classes more if they limit the Assaults weaponary choice.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 213	Posted - 2013.05.04 08:44:00 - [10] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: When will you people realize isk isn't a balancing point. This^ All I can say is that AV grenades should be reviewed... that homing function is laughable. If it's going to simply home in on tanks, wtf is it a grenade?

Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 424	Posted - 2013.05.04 08:54:00 - [11] - Quote Honestly, it comes down to one thing: AV grenades are too versatile of a counter mechanic against vehicles. Every class is able to carry a different type of AV, but there's no balance for skill investment > versatility. Assaults (or any suit class) can carry an AV grenade with the ability to solo a tank, why switch to swarmers or a plasma cannon at all when you can get the job done for ~100SP and without having to change fittings? Grenades should deal less damage since anyone can carry them and anything requiring a high slot should be the real damage dealer depending on what kind of AV it is. Instead we have a situation where versatility > investment and everyone on the field can carry AV at all times. It's not fair anyone that uses vehicles when there's a potential 16 (and soon to be) 24 people have a highly damaging effective counter ready and available at all times.
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 816	Posted - 2013.05.04 17:56:00 - [12] - Quote No. Please study the circle of life before posting: Vehicles > Infantry > AV > Vehicles
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 477	Posted - 2013.05.05 22:49:00 - [13] - Quote Vaerana Myshtana wrote: No. Please study the circle of life before posting: Vehicles > Infantry > AV > Vehicles But at the same time specialization needs to be > than versatility. AV is a specialization. It should reward a player for going into that role to be the best person on that field to be the effective counter to another role, in this case vehicles. Having the ability to use better AV weapons should give that player an advantage over someone that only dabbles in that role vs specializing, in this case AV grenades. The grenade variant is versatile, but also just as effective if not more than the entire AV specialization. Again, if everyone can carry AV grenades that do the same job if not better than the whole AV role at the fraction of the investment, why have an AV role at all. Giving up a light weapon slot for AV capabilities should be more rewarding than someone that can continue to be on the field as infantry with a powerful AV of their own 100% of the time. This makes the AV role itself obsolete because they can't fulfill their role because the lesser investment for versatility exceeds the need for specialization.
WyrmHero1945 SyNergy Gaming EoN. 251	Posted - 2013.05.09 23:52:00 - [14] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: When will you people realize isk isn't a balancing point. Duuuuuude
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 604	Posted - 2013.05.10 00:10:00 - [15] - Quote Oh look, militia AV grenades... Lets see how many people are going to want to spec into AV grenades now. Plasma Cannon is probably going to be DOA too.
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organisation 0	Posted - 2013.05.10 00:29:00 - [16] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Vaerana Myshtana wrote: No. Please study the circle of life before posting: Vehicles > Infantry > AV > Vehicles But at the same time specialization needs to be > than versatility. AV is a specialization. It should reward a player for going into that role to be the best person on that field to be the effective counter to another role, in this case vehicles. Having the ability to use better AV weapons should give that player an advantage over someone that only dabbles in that role vs specializing, in this case AV grenades. The grenade variant is versatile, but also just as effective if not more than the entire AV specialization. Again, if everyone can carry AV grenades that do the same job if not better than the whole AV role at the fraction of the investment, why have an AV role at all. Giving up a light weapon slot for AV capabilities should be more rewarding than someone that can continue to be on the field as infantry with a powerful AV of their own 100% of the time. This makes the AV role itself obsolete because they can't fulfill their role because the lesser investment for versatility exceeds the need for specialization. swarm launchers to seem to be rare on the battle field. maybe because they r so easy to dodge when u see them coming from a distance. av grenades r used to much every time my lav blows up its because of an av grenade. but if I see a proto blaster/sniper tank u rnt going to see players trying to get close enough to use an av grenade. it would be more effective to have an anti tank artillery vehicle, this vehicle would specialize in killing tanks and would also be relatively weak in terms of armor and shields as it is meant to lob high explosive rounds from a safe distance. its the perfect av weapon. the only problem would be finding an effective way to implement this. maybe have infrantry mark the tanks for artillery to fire upon. since tanks can SURVIVE orbital strikes... y not use ground to ground artillery vehicles....


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