when I saw this pic, I realised that it was time to put the foot down.

There is all this complaining about tanks being useless, redundant, and DUST 514 becoming "AR 514"/"Assault 514"/"CoD 514".

So you draw on statistics and prices from Uprising tanks. So you draw on new AV weapons. So you draw on every and any tidbit of information possible which points towards why tanks will become useless, or will be stuck as 'glass cannons' back in the redline.

What I want to know is this. If you DON'T want tanks to be glass cannons, if you DON'T want DUST to become CoD, then explain what you see tanks being able to do.

Explain the scores you think you should be getting.

Explain the ISK you should be spending.

EXPLAIN, in essence, WHAT YOU BELIEVE H.A.V.s should be capable of, EXPLAIN the ROLE OF THE HAV ON THE BATTLEFIELD IN YOUR OWN OPINION, and from that I can deduce a reason as to why they're apparently broken in the next build (which you haven't even tried yet), and tell me what isn't matching with your ideals for a true tank.

Because right now, despite the countless threads on them, I'm still a little lost.

when I saw this pic, I realised that it was time to put the foot down.

There is all this complaining about tanks being useless, redundant, and DUST 514 becoming "AR 514"/"Assault 514"/"CoD 514".

So you draw on statistics and prices from Uprising tanks. So you draw on new AV weapons. So you draw on every and any tidbit of information possible which points towards why tanks will become useless, or will be stuck as 'glass cannons' back in the redline.

What I want to know is this. If you DON'T want tanks to be glass cannons, if you DON'T want DUST to become CoD, then explain what you see tanks being able to do.

Explain the scores you think you should be getting.

Explain the ISK you should be spending.

EXPLAIN, in essence, WHAT YOU BELIEVE H.A.V.s should be capable of, EXPLAIN the ROLE OF THE HAV ON THE BATTLEFIELD IN YOUR OWN OPINION, and from that I can deduce a reason as to why they're apparently broken in the next build (which you haven't even tried yet), and tell me what isn't matching with your ideals for a true tank.

Because right now, despite the countless threads on them, I'm still a little lost.

I think its more a case of these new enforcer tanks cost the same as a maraurder but have the stats of a militia tank and are infact worse than gunnlogi/madrugar but more expensive, than it being a case of I want an HAV where I go 40-0.

THEY ******* NURF THE SAGARIS AND SURYA THEN THEY TAKE EM AWAY AND TRY N REPLACE EM WITH SICA'S AND SURYA'S OF EQUAL PRICE **** YOU CCP

so first off lets look at havs tactical use we have the missile tank (uselesss) the blaster tank (only usefull assuming your going against scrubs) and then we have the long range glass cannon rail sniper ( now this mine does over 5 k a shot and can shoot clear across manus peak. now hp capalilities vary depending on if your shield or armor but here general options between 5 k and 9 k shield gunlogi-sagaris ....possinly a few hardeners (shield hardeners last 10 sec while armor hardeners last 60 sex ) now my swarm 3200 dmg my friends forge 4 k dmg it takTHE es 4 of my swarms to kill my shield tank 2 forges if they are good a few grenades THE REASON PEOPLE SAY TANKS ARE OP 1. they suck 2. they have litterally zero av when push comes to shove and i call a hav on the field your looking at 800 k to 2.5 million isk that can be soloed and destroyed with 40 k tops ...my sentinel that rips havs to pieces price anges 20 k iskme - 180 k they nufed the sagarises regen they nurfed armors resistances as well as overall hp total it doesnt matter if you have 6000 armor if your being hit by grenade that do 1500-4 k dmg all vehicles are is then means through which dust 514 will drain eves economy (i have been playing this game for over a year i play with and against pro tanker every day all of them say the same they are either redline rail sniping next build or leaving tanking all together so thats why people are calling this game c.o.d 514 is because ccp has made 1 suit in uprising supreme over every other suit ...and then they destroyed what little hav potential existed here what it ultimatley comes down 2 atm a tank who wants 2 tank has the ability to achieve adv havs that cannot surrvive proto av there is no proto hav there never has been an the only time sagaris or surya ever even came sclose 2 proto lvl ccp nurfed em. SO TELL ME WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO SPECIALIZE IN SOMETHING LIKE THAT.. hey its like forcing every one to type 1 or 2 suits and then tossing em against proto havs ...you call a hav ...its not liekly that u have foot force really so your in ur have which can only get as good as adv gear and your facng proto av that has been dust 514 for the past year and now they are taking away the sagaris and surya the adv havs and replacing them with havs tht are weaker than them so now you face proto weapong meant to rip your hav to little pieces with militia tanks and standard WE DONT EVEN FUCKIN GET ADV HAVS ANYMORE WHY THE GO ******* TAKE AWAY YOUR FUCKIN PROTO AV SINCE THEY ARE ******* TAKING AWAY ADV HAVS AND REPLACING EM WITH MILITIA AND STANDARD

So first off lets look at HAVs tactical use, we have the missile tank useless, the blaster tank which is only useful assuming your going against scrubs and then we have the long range glass cannon rail sniper, mine does over 5 k a shot and can shoot clear across Manus Peak.

Now HP capabilities vary depending on if your shield or armor but here general options range between 5 k and 9 k shield Gunnlogi - Sagaris possibly a few hardeners, shield hardeners last 10 sec while armor hardeners last 60 seconds, my swarm does 3200 dmg while my friends forge does 4k dmg, it takes 4 of my swarms to kill my shield tank 2 forges if they are good or a few grenades.

The reason people say tanks are OP:

1. They suck

2. They have literally zero AV when push comes to shove and i call a HAV on the field your looking at 800 k to 2.5 million isk that can be soloed and destroyed with 40 k tops

My sentinel that rips HAVs to pieces costs me between 20k - 180k isk, they nerfed the Sagaris' regen they nerfed armors resistances as well as overall hp total it, doesn't matter if you have 6000 armor if your being hit by grenades that do 1500-4 k dmg.

All vehicles are is a means through which dust 514 will drain eves economy, I have been playing this game for over a year I play with and against pro tankers everyday all of them say the same they are either redline rail sniping next build or leaving tanking all together, so that is why people are calling this game c.o.d 514 is because ccp has made one suit in uprising supreme over every other suit.

Then they destroyed what little HAV potential existed here what it ultimately comes down to at the moment a tank who wants to tank has the ability to achieve advanced HAVs that cannot survive prototype AV there is no prototype HAV there never has been and the only time the Sagaris or Surya ever even came close to prototype level CCP nerfed them.

So tell me would you be willing to specialise in something like that? its like forcing every one into type 1 or 2 suits and then tossing them against prototype HAVs, you call a HAV its not likely that you have foot force really so you are in your HAV which can only get as good as advanced gear and your facing prototype AV.

That has been dust 514 for the past year and now they are taking away the Sagaris and Surya the advanced HAVs, and replacing them with HAVs that are weaker than them so now you face prototype weapons meant to rip your HAV into little pieces, with militia tanks and standard, we don't even get advanced HAVs anymore why don't they go take away your prototype AV since they are taking away advanced HAVs and replacing them with militia and standard

So my next question is, if tanks were to become more tanky, how much tanker should they be and how much damage should they lose to compensate for it? Or maybe not just damage. Perhaps speed, turret rotation, turret elevation, etc.

Because it seems that you guys want to be able to use tanks on the front line and not lose money, but there then needs to be a balance between what damage output and damage that can be taken. Right now I feel tanks aren't so bad. Lets use tanks now as a standard point. What should change to them, in terms of the aspects of a tank I've listed in the above paragraph.

The way I see it, it would be BS if they made the tank such a lone-wolf "I win" button.

Some one mentioned before, teamwork. As an LAV and DS operator, I literally can not do squat **** with them without teamwork. Same should apply to HAVs. So all this bickering on the strength of AV is really only coming for the most part from lone wolves, expressing their discontent that AV can stand up to tanks, and more so that they can not deal with it from their fitting alone.

I hav (haha) yet to see much discussion from people who've used HAVs in coordination with ground troops. Most people are referencing public matches and don't even try to deny. If they based their opinions of the HAV where they were coordinated (corp battles) they would know that their teammates would to their best ability, eliminate AV threats.

Because AV can't stand up to Infantry, Infantry can't stand up to vehicles, vehicles can't stand very long against AV.

It's the food chain baby.

However AV grenades are different because they are so powerful yet allow a ground troop to be equally and greatly effective against vehicles and infantry, which goes against the philosophy of specialization. AV nades promote Jack of All Trades because they're so effective you wouldn't need to break out different weapons or make a squad effort.

The way I see it, it would be BS if they made the tank such a lone-wolf "I win" button.

Some one mentioned before, teamwork. As an LAV and DS operator, I literally can not do squat **** with them without teamwork. Same should apply to HAVs. So all this bickering on the strength of AV is really only coming for the most part from lone wolves, expressing their discontent that AV can stand up to tanks, and more so that they can not deal with it from their fitting alone.

I hav (haha) yet to see much discussion from people who've used HAVs in coordination with ground troops. Most people are referencing public matches and don't even try to deny. If they based their opinions of the HAV where they were coordinated (corp battles) they would know that their teammates would to their best ability, eliminate AV threats.

Because AV can't stand up to Infantry, Infantry can't stand up to vehicles, vehicles can't stand very long against AV.

It's the food chain baby.

However AV grenades are different because they are so powerful yet allow a ground troop to be equally and greatly effective against vehicles and infantry, which goes against the philosophy of specialization. AV nades promote Jack of All Trades because they're so effective you wouldn't need to break out different weapons or make a squad effort.

.

1. Explain the scores you think you should be getting.

2. Explain the ISK you should be spending.

EXPLAIN, in essence, WHAT YOU BELIEVE H.A.V.s should be capable of, EXPLAIN the ROLE OF THE HAV ON THE BATTLEFIELD IN YOUR OWN OPINION, and from that I can deduce a reason as to why they're apparently broken in the next build (which you haven't even tried yet), and tell me what isn't matching with your ideals for a true tank.

Because right now, despite the countless threads on them, I'm still a little lost.

so first off lets look at havs tactical use we have the missile tank (uselesss) the blaster tank (only usefull assuming your going against scrubs) and then we have the long range glass cannon rail sniper ( now this mine does over 5 k a shot and can shoot clear across manus peak.

now hp capalilities vary depending on if your shield or armor but here general options between 5 k and 9 k shield gunlogi-sagaris ....possinly a few hardeners (shield hardeners last 10 sec while armor hardeners last 60 sex ) now my swarm 3200 dmg my friends forge 4 k dmg it takTHE es 4 of my swarms to kill my shield tank 2 forges if they are good a few grenades THE REASON PEOPLE SAY TANKS ARE OP
1. they suck
2. they have litterally zero av when push comes to shove and i call a hav on the field your looking at 800 k to 2.5 million isk that can be soloed and destroyed with 40 k tops

...my sentinel that rips havs to pieces price anges 20 k iskme - 180 k they nufed the sagarises regen they nurfed armors resistances as well as overall hp total it doesnt matter if you have 6000 armor if your being hit by grenade that do 1500-4 k dmg all vehicles are is then means through which dust 514 will drain eves economy

(i have been playing this game for over a year i play with and against pro tanker every day all of them say the same they are either redline rail sniping next build or leaving tanking all together so thats why people are calling this game c.o.d 514 is because ccp has made 1 suit in uprising supreme over every other suit

...and then they destroyed what little hav potential existed here what it ultimatley comes down 2 atm a tank who wants 2 tank has the ability to achieve adv havs that cannot surrvive proto av there is no proto hav there never has been an the only time sagaris or surya ever even came sclose 2 proto lvl ccp nurfed em.

SO TELL ME WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO SPECIALIZE IN SOMETHING LIKE THAT.. hey its like forcing every one to type 1 or 2 suits and then tossing em against proto havs ...you call a hav ...its not liekly that u have foot force really so your in ur have which can only get as good as adv gear and your facng proto av that has been dust 514 for the past year and now they are taking away the sagaris and surya the adv havs and replacing them with havs tht are weaker than them so now you face proto weapong meant to rip your hav to little pieces with militia tanks and standard

WE DONT EVEN FUCKIN GET ADV HAVS ANYMORE WHY THE GO ******* TAKE AWAY YOUR FUCKIN PROTO AV SINCE THEY ARE ******* TAKING AWAY ADV HAVS AND REPLACING EM WITH MILITIA AND STANDARD

I am open for discussing Tanking tactics. I was never easy to take down. Yes i lost many tanks, most of them were for training purposes and i did face some very good tankers and AVs. But i was never alone in my tank