DUST Search - How to exploit planetary conquest

Bendtner92 wrote:

Deadeyes Anterie wrote:

Still seems like a problem to me..

You own two districts that have to attack each other each day. They generate 100 clones each every day. You need to send 300 clones to the grinder each day to self-lock both districts.

This means you only have to buy 100 clones/day.

That's a cost of ~53mil isk a day to district lock.

Now you get 80,000 per kill as the winning team so that will net you 24mil.

Now we are looking at a 29mil isk loss.

You get paid for 64 matches if you bring full squads to both fights but just afk, that should be about ~15mil ISK

Now you are looking at a 14mil isk loss, if random loot*64 is worth more than that it might be profitable. Either way it's so cheap it's a great alternative if you are being targeted. For a few million isk (and maybe even a profit?) you will be safe from all enemy attack.

Not quite true.

The 300 clones you buy with Genolution packs cost 160 million ISK. The 200 clones you generate on your two districts each day are only worth 20 million ISK.

If 150 clones are lost in a battle the ISK payout is 12 million, so that would be 24 million in total. You will get no more ISK than this from the battles.

You will get no loot unless the clones have actually *died* in the battle. There are no loot if the 150 clones are lost only because of the 150 minimum clone loss rule. Thus, to get loot you will have to have players get killed/suicide in the match, but the loot is still dependant on what those players were using.

In total you're looking at a 116 million ISK loss per day you do this using Genolution packs.

Edit: Or 58 million ISK loss per day per district you do this for. The 116 million ISK loss is for two districts.

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hooc roht Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 42	Posted - 2013.04.30 05:46:00 - [1] - Quote Just thought i would get his out there so poeple know what is going on. First off get a district. Second have two corps one main corp and one dummy corp The main corp will own the district...have the second corp attack the district and lose. This way you can block the daily time slot from attack with your dummy corp. ... Not that there is anything wrong with that. You know "meta game" or whatever you call it.
Atticus Wolf ROGUE SPADES EoN. 10	Posted - 2013.04.30 05:58:00 - [2] - Quote And lose the minimum 150 clones that need to be sent or 160 million isk..... I am not sure that is the best option I guess you could fund the clones with other districts generated clones but it would leave those districts very vulnerable
Chances Ghost Inf4m0us 63	Posted - 2013.04.30 06:03:00 - [3] - Quote at a cost of 80mil per day its cheaper to let people attack it
Atticus Wolf ROGUE SPADES EoN. 10	Posted - 2013.04.30 06:06:00 - [4] - Quote Yeah, I got that wrong, 80 mil buys you 150 clones
Chances Ghost Inf4m0us 63	Posted - 2013.04.30 06:08:00 - [5] - Quote ide like to add that the whole reason the price jumped to 80mil was to prevent this exact tactic from working
Mithridates VI IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 1065	Posted - 2013.04.30 06:10:00 - [6] - Quote hooc roht wrote: Just thought i would get his out there so poeple know what is going on. First off get a district. Second have two corps one main corp and one dummy corp The main corp will own the district...have the second corp attack the district and lose. This way you can block the daily time slot from attack with your dummy corp. ... Not that there is anything wrong with that. You know "meta game" or whatever you call it. This was raised as one of many potential exploits when the concept was first announced. It has been widely dismissed as totally not worth the ISK it would cost to do this.
Chris F2112 187. 77	Posted - 2013.04.30 06:11:00 - [7] - Quote At 80m it's far too expensive to work for long. Maybe PRO could pull it off on one or two districts, but that's about it. Otherwise it's much cheaper just to defend your district well.
Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 136	Posted - 2013.04.30 10:00:00 - [8] - Quote hooc roht wrote: Just thought i would get his out there so poeple know what is going on. First off get a district. Second have two corps one main corp and one dummy corp The main corp will own the district...have the second corp attack the district and lose. This way you can block the daily time slot from attack with your dummy corp. ... Not that there is anything wrong with that. You know "meta game" or whatever you call it. That-¦s the spirit, keeo thinking outside the box and you-¦ll do great in New Eden.
Deadeyes Anterie Ill Omens EoN. 452	Posted - 2013.04.30 11:57:00 - [9] - Quote Still seems like a problem to me.. You own two districts that have to attack each other each day. They generate 100 clones each every day. You need to send 300 clones to the grinder each day to self-lock both districts. This means you only have to buy 100 clones/day. That's a cost of ~53mil isk a day to district lock. Now you get 80,000 per kill as the winning team so that will net you 24mil. Now we are looking at a 24mil isk loss. You get paid for 64 matches if you bring full squads to both fights but just afk, that should be about ~15mil ISK Now you are looking at a 9mil isk loss, if random loot*64 is worth more than that it might be profitable. Either way it's so cheap it's a great alternative if you are being targeted.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 497	Posted - 2013.04.30 12:10:00 - [10] - Quote Deadeyes Anterie wrote: Still seems like a problem to me.. You own two districts that have to attack each other each day. They generate 100 clones each every day. You need to send 300 clones to the grinder each day to self-lock both districts. This means you only have to buy 100 clones/day. That's a cost of ~53mil isk a day to district lock. Now you get 80,000 per kill as the winning team so that will net you 24mil. Now we are looking at a 29mil isk loss. You get paid for 64 matches if you bring full squads to both fights but just afk, that should be about ~15mil ISK Now you are looking at a 14mil isk loss, if random loot64 is worth more than that it might be profitable. Either way it's so cheap it's a great alternative if you are being targeted. For a few million isk (and maybe even a profit?) you will be safe from all enemy attack. Not quite true. The 300 clones you buy with Genolution packs cost 160 million ISK. The 200 clones you generate on your two districts each day are only worth 20 million ISK. If 150 clones are lost in a battle the ISK payout is 12 million, so that would be 24 million in total. You will get no more ISK than this from the battles. You will get no loot unless the clones have actually died* in the battle. There are no loot if the 150 clones are lost only because of the 150 minimum clone loss rule. Thus, to get loot you will have to have players get killed/suicide in the match, but the loot is still dependant on what those players were using. In total you're looking at a 116 million ISK loss per day you do this using Genolution packs.

Deadeyes Anterie Ill Omens EoN. 452	Posted - 2013.04.30 12:57:00 - [11] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Deadeyes Anterie wrote: Still seems like a problem to me.. You own two districts that have to attack each other each day. They generate 100 clones each every day. You need to send 300 clones to the grinder each day to self-lock both districts. This means you only have to buy 100 clones/day. That's a cost of ~53mil isk a day to district lock. Now you get 80,000 per kill as the winning team so that will net you 24mil. Now we are looking at a 29mil isk loss. You get paid for 64 matches if you bring full squads to both fights but just afk, that should be about ~15mil ISK Now you are looking at a 14mil isk loss, if random loot64 is worth more than that it might be profitable. Either way it's so cheap it's a great alternative if you are being targeted. For a few million isk (and maybe even a profit?) you will be safe from all enemy attack. Not quite true. The 300 clones you buy with Genolution packs cost 160 million ISK. The 200 clones you generate on your two districts each day are only worth 20 million ISK. If 150 clones are lost in a battle the ISK payout is 12 million, so that would be 24 million in total. You will get no more ISK than this from the battles. You will get no loot unless the clones have actually died* in the battle. There are no loot if the 150 clones are lost only because of the 150 minimum clone loss rule. Thus, to get loot you will have to have players get killed/suicide in the match, but the loot is still dependant on what those players were using. In total you're looking at a 116 million ISK loss per day you do this using Genolution packs. Edit: Or 58 million ISK loss per day per district you do this for. The 116 million ISK loss is for two districts. Why the **** would you sell clones then buy them back again for 8x the price? Just use the clones you generate to attack...
Jack Boost Zarena Family 236	Posted - 2013.04.30 13:06:00 - [12] - Quote One fight for district per day... is not only way to get ISK from districts. So maybe costly , but it will be only 'drop' from income/cost from districts. Search for drones and exploration sites. See also bonuses to eve/dust players to FW and sovergenity. (probably more)
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 497	Posted - 2013.04.30 13:09:00 - [13] - Quote Deadeyes Anterie wrote: Why the **** would you sell clones then buy them back again for 8x the price? Just use the clones you generate to attack... Where did I say you have to sell the clones you generate? I just said they're worth 100k. Also you can't attack your own district with Genolution packs, so you would need to have more than 1 corp to do this. I'm not saying that's hard to have, but I'm just stating you have to use more than 1 corp for this. If you do want to attack with the 100 clones your district generates you have to move them out before "your other corp" attacks your district, because you can't move clones out when under attack. This also means you have to wait until "your other corp" are done with the attack on your district to initiate another attack from your district. This means that there are a possibility you can be attacked by someone else before "your other corp" attacks you again.
Guinevere Bravo SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 157	Posted - 2013.04.30 13:16:00 - [14] - Quote 80M ISK is pocket change, jesus even 300M is. Dummy corp is a great idea to take the daily slot, kill one of their clones and let it run the coarse and you should end up with minimal losses and max profit from what ive read above, correct?
Deadeyes Anterie Ill Omens EoN. 452	Posted - 2013.04.30 13:23:00 - [15] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Deadeyes Anterie wrote: Why the **** would you sell clones then buy them back again for 8x the price? Just use the clones you generate to attack... Where did I say you have to sell the clones you generate? I just said they're worth 100k. Also you can't attack your own district with Genolution packs, so you would need to have more than 1 corp to do this. I'm not saying that's hard to have, but I'm just stating you have to use more than 1 corp for this. If you do want to attack with the 100 clones your district generates you have to move them out before "your other corp" attacks your district, because you can't move clones out when under attack. This also means you have to wait until "your other corp" are done with the attack on your district to initiate another attack from your district. This means that there are a possibility you can be attacked by someone else before "your other corp" attacks you again. In your calculations you sold your clones then bought more that's where I got that from. Strange that you can't move clones off a district when decked. That's a terrible terrible mechanic. You can tie up 400 clones for a day and take their less guarded assets.
Kaze Eyrou ROGUE SPADES EoN. 135	Posted - 2013.04.30 13:27:00 - [16] - Quote Guinevere Bravo wrote: 80M ISK is pocket change, jesus even 300M is. Dummy corp is a great idea to take the daily slot, kill one of their clones and let it run the coarse and you should end up with minimal losses and max profit from what ive read above, correct? lolwut? You're ISK dumping just to change districts between two corps? From my understanding you get ISK revenue when you HOLD those districts. Not when they switch hands.
Deadeyes Anterie Ill Omens EoN. 452	Posted - 2013.04.30 13:31:00 - [17] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: Guinevere Bravo wrote: 80M ISK is pocket change, jesus even 300M is. Dummy corp is a great idea to take the daily slot, kill one of their clones and let it run the coarse and you should end up with minimal losses and max profit from what ive read above, correct? lolwut? You're ISK dumping just to change districts between two corps? From my understanding you get ISK revenue when you HOLD those districts. Not when they switch hands. Were talking about war shielding. Let's say imps want to take you out. For 10-20mil a day you can shield yourself from all attacks. Basically PC mechanics are broken. Obviously its not profitable, but it is preferable to losing your only land. Especially if districts are needed for manufacturing/PvE farming.
Orin the Freak Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 466	Posted - 2013.04.30 13:32:00 - [18] - Quote What is the point of holding a district if it's not going to MAKE you money in the long run? Holding two districts this way would only drain your wallet. I don't care if you have trillions of ISK in EVE, untill dust to even ISK transfers come out, and they are unhinged (minimal tax) this method won't be feasible, nor sustainable. Even after EVE-DUST transfers are in, it's only worth it if your EVE contingent can make up for the losses on a daily basis. which means more work. It would be far more efficient to just hire quality mercs to fight to defend your district, or just fight for yourself. but hey, don't take my word for it, I'm sure CCP has come up with plenty of ways to tweak the system to make it even less profitable if this becomes an issue.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3738	Posted - 2013.04.30 13:32:00 - [19] - Quote So that's 16million risk a day doing this met hood of destruction and shielding. Good luck protecting the dummy corp at the same time.
Deadeyes Anterie Ill Omens EoN. 452	Posted - 2013.04.30 13:36:00 - [20] - Quote Orin the Freak wrote: What is the point of holding a district if it's not going to MAKE you money in the long run? Holding two districts this way would only drain your wallet. I don't care if you have trillions of ISK in EVE, untill dust to even ISK transfers come out, and they are unhinged (minimal tax) this method won't be feasible, nor sustainable. Even after EVE-DUST transfers are in, it's only worth it if your EVE contingent can make up for the losses on a daily basis. which means more work. It would be far more efficient to just hire quality mercs to fight to defend your district, or just fight for yourself. but hey, don't take my word for it, I'm sure CCP has come up with plenty of ways to tweak the system to make it even less profitable if this becomes an issue. Problem is manufacturing is tied to PC, if I could hire 16 elite mercs where they pay for gear for only 20mil if and only if they win let me know! Until then a Dec shield is preferable, which is a shame for a game about mercs.

Deadeyes Anterie Ill Omens EoN. 452	Posted - 2013.04.30 13:39:00 - [21] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So that's 16million risk a day doing this met hood of destruction and shielding. Good luck protecting the dummy corp at the same time. Cross deing now only 32 mil a day for complete absolute protection! Haha
Heathen Bastard Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 235	Posted - 2013.04.30 13:56:00 - [22] - Quote Deadeyes Anterie wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So that's 16million risk a day doing this met hood of destruction and shielding. Good luck protecting the dummy corp at the same time. Cross deing now only 32 mil a day for complete absolute protection! Haha Don't forget to factor in never generating a penny, and if the defenders start with the null cannons, on losing the deposit on that MCC you have use to attack(you plan to afk, that means the MCC blows up, 'nother what 80-120 mil down the drain?)
Patoman Radiant ZionTCD Unclaimed. 70	Posted - 2013.04.30 13:59:00 - [23] - Quote Deadeyes Anterie wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: Deadeyes Anterie wrote: Why the **** would you sell clones then buy them back again for 8x the price? Just use the clones you generate to attack... Where did I say you have to sell the clones you generate? I just said they're worth 100k. Also you can't attack your own district with Genolution packs, so you would need to have more than 1 corp to do this. I'm not saying that's hard to have, but I'm just stating you have to use more than 1 corp for this. If you do want to attack with the 100 clones your district generates you have to move them out before "your other corp" attacks your district, because you can't move clones out when under attack. This also means you have to wait until "your other corp" are done with the attack on your district to initiate another attack from your district. This means that there are a possibility you can be attacked by someone else before "your other corp" attacks you again. In your calculations you sold your clones then bought more that's where I got that from. Strange that you can't move clones off a district when decked. That's a terrible terrible mechanic. You can tie up 400 clones for a day and take their less guarded assets. That is what is called a siege, don't be under siege in a castle if you plan on going anywhere anytime soon.
Django Quik R.I.f.t Orion Empire 386	Posted - 2013.04.30 14:30:00 - [24] - Quote We covered this exact issue to absolute death in the PC mega-thread weeks ago. The real issue here is that it can be done but is absolutely pointless. You can't be attacking your fake corp and your real corp at the same time because you can't move clones from a district under attack. That's a good mechanic because otherwise you could just move all your clones to a safe district anytime you came under attack. That also means that one of your corps will be vulnerable to a real attack. The only foolproof method of ensuring you're never attacked is to use a fake corp with no district and only use genolution packs. This is ridiculously expensive and wouldn't be worth anyone's effort because it gets you nowhere. Sure your district is safe but you never get to play PC for real; you never get to have those cool corp battles; you never make money; your corp makes no progress; when you eventually decide it might be safe to stop self-locking your district(s), there will likely still be someone waiting to attack you.
Guinevere Bravo SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 158	Posted - 2013.04.30 14:46:00 - [25] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: Guinevere Bravo wrote: 80M ISK is pocket change, jesus even 300M is. Dummy corp is a great idea to take the daily slot, kill one of their clones and let it run the coarse and you should end up with minimal losses and max profit from what ive read above, correct? lolwut? You're ISK dumping just to change districts between two corps? From my understanding you get ISK revenue when you HOLD those districts. Not when they switch hands. Obviously not talking about switching the district, as everyone else managed to figure out. I was wondering if this was a way to PROTECT from impending attacks, if you have CBs set-up all day to make sure the attacking side is filled (with the alt corp) you will be safe from the bigger boys coming to steal your bikes. Seems as if the price to pay is about 20mil-30mil, again thats pocket change and broken to be perfectly honest.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2646	Posted - 2013.04.30 15:51:00 - [26] - Quote You have 2 Corps, 1 main, 1 dummy. Main Corp has district, dummy has none: This means you're spending 80 milliion ISK per day to attack, every day, and as soon as you miss your 1-hour repeat attack window once, someone's free to attack. At the absolute MOST, you're producing 100 clones a day from that district, with a "profit" of 10 million ISK. That means you're 70 million behind each day. If you have players willing to spawn and suicide to drain the Starter Pack of clones, then you can also collect another 12 million for the Biomass. It also costs you most of the gear they lose - but you get a percentage of the lost gear (if it's not a BPO) back in the form of loot. So using anything but Starter Fits in a farming mission results in a further net loss. You're still sitting at 58 million ISK lost per day to hold onto one district "safely". Both Corps have districts: You can choose which district to attack with, and which to defend with. Once it's under attack, a district can no longer declare an attack. If you don't have a Production Facility, you only produce 75 clones a day, and if you do, you have more losses if you're on different planets, or a lower total clone count in your attacking district (a liability if/when attacked). Even so, you have to send 150 clones to attack, and if you're producing 100, you have to buy clones to keep the district's numbers up. If someone attacks your district, they lock you from buying more clones to reinforce the district, breaking the cycle. You're vulnerable to attack unless you spend 80 million ISK on a clone pack to attack the district with each day, thus bringing back the insane excess cost. You're also spending at least 3 million ISK per attack (transport cost) on top of the clone pack and the sacrifice of a district's profits and the requirement to buy more a second clone pack every 3 days at absolute best. No matter how many districts you add to the pot, you either need a clone pack purchase every day to attack one of your districts, or you leave a district vulnerable with reduced clone count and open to be attacked.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 779	Posted - 2013.04.30 16:15:00 - [27] - Quote Guinevere Bravo wrote: Kaze Eyrou wrote: Guinevere Bravo wrote: 80M ISK is pocket change, jesus even 300M is. Dummy corp is a great idea to take the daily slot, kill one of their clones and let it run the coarse and you should end up with minimal losses and max profit from what ive read above, correct? lolwut? You're ISK dumping just to change districts between two corps? From my understanding you get ISK revenue when you HOLD those districts. Not when they switch hands. Obviously not talking about switching the district, as everyone else managed to figure out. I was wondering if this was a way to PROTECT from impending attacks, if you have CBs set-up all day to make sure the attacking side is filled (with the alt corp) you will be safe from the bigger boys coming to steal your bikes. Seems as if the price to pay is about 20mil-30mil, again thats pocket change and broken to be perfectly honest. Well, nothing is stopping anyone from trying this out. Yes, it is a way to protect 1, repeat 1 district from impending attack. But it is only 20 to 30 mill if you own an adjacent district. And has been pointed out often your alt corp can then be attacked while it is district locking. So then you have to form another alt corporation and get another adjacent district in order to lock you alt district. And then you have to get another district to lock that district. So what happens when someone steals your alt corp's tricycles? Try to do this with Genolution clone packs and you will need a corp with at least 60 active members grinding other game modes to contribute over a million ISK every single day to support your district that doesn't make any ISK. Just sort of sits there doing nothing. Has your corps name on it. At this point there is really no bicycle to steal. Or, it is more like crashing a new sports car into the side of the garage every day so that someone can't take your 10 speed from the back yard. Even 20 to 30 million is not pocket change. Not over time. In about a month and a half you will have thrown away over a billion ISK. It would be much easier to try to set up a planet wide alliances with other corporations. And hope they don't steal your bike.


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