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Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
153
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Posted - 2013.04.30 01:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
Now not everyone in this game has 10-12M SP and counting who can afford to fully go proto in a few weapons but its not about just the weapon its about the creating a smart and intelligent build without SP sink.
Lets assume operation and proficiency this next build remain 2x and 5x respectively that means it will take
621,840 to take operation in a weapon to 5 and
1,554,600 to take proficiency in a weapon to 5.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Anv4MqUic4uXdGNQdFZpVDRqbXkxMGM4aHpZVGZ0cUE#gid=0
No few if any are going to take their weapons that high to proficiency since it becomes a since past prof 1-3 and the SP can be better spent elsewhere. We dont know what the skill multipliers are going to be and also with reduction of secondary and tertiary prereqs it may be easier to get into certain weapons easier.
However with dropsuits coming on the 6th there are suits that directly augment the weapons in some respects or they reduce fitting cost in other respects. Not knowing fully the stats and fitting costs of these 4 weapons creates an uncertainty that if known could influence the choice of one racial ds over another and that is meaningful.
Remember many of us who have been planning for PC are the kind of logistical nerds that create fitting calculators and spreadsheets like the one above(not mine but one created by another awesome community member) and each piece of info is important we look at the market and look at each item in terms of stats and play with militia variants to get a sense of it before committing our SP to it.
With IWS reporting 255M SP as being the number of a supermax character 10-12 only represents <5% of total character SP and not something that can be just callously spent.
That said a counter argument to these number tbf is supposedly dropsuit multiplier is dropped from 8x to 6x which means the SP retained taking a proto suit to proto next build is enough to take 1 additional weapon to proto so there is that offset to counter the argument. Additionally the 3x SP event has the capacity to generate 1,142,400 SP without boosters if you can manage to hit the cap on that second reset before DT thursday(which is when i imagine the event ends).
But again not everyone has 10-12M SP like i do and other veteran players. They are closer to 4-6M and they will have to make the tough choice of get to a weapon to proto with whats available or sit out of PC for the first week because they will get crushed with anything less. Anyone who thinks a group of miltia/std or even advanced weapon players can keep up against an entire team decked out in proto/officer gear is out of their head. Sure you can take out 1-2 in a pub match you are not doing it against an entire team sorry not happening.
The other important point is this is our final chance to test and play before it fully goes live on the 14th. Give us that time to adjust. Keep in mind so much of this game has changed in the new build. Controls feel different, SS is gone and thus ranges have changed, the fittings and other equipment will change gameplay style and other factors that are difficult to gauge without feeling and playing the game itself. How can we be asked to fully wage war before we even get a chance to feel it out and take the build on a test run. After all this planning and playing please give us just this week to acclimate before the powers that be clash in what will be the most epic and spectacular series of conflicts gaming will have ever seen to date. I am foaming at the mouth to finally unleash the rage and fury that i know many of us have been waiting for with PC but lets us make sure we are comfortable with the tools that will get us there. Dont launch it half-cocked lets us have it all or at least be familiar with the changes so when we war it will be as if greeting an old friend that we are comfortable and familiar with, rather than an ackward teenager fumbling their way around with the opposite sex for the first time.
Before i get the HTFU and who cares and gaps will always exist and new gear will always comes out down the road that will make you regret not having SP saved up to max it out right away etc. And yes there will always be changes in gameplay that changes the feel of the game and there expansions that changes things. But this is a special circumstance this is the launch of the game and the launch of what will be all out war. I implore CCP to consider that they delay PC if at all possible(maybe you can just make it so Clone packs are not avaliable for purchase to prevent PC from going live but it still being able to view and everything else) If its too late and its going live, then consider extending the 3x SP event all the way to the 6th or heck even the 14th as the final bonus to the beta testers. This extra SP will let some of the smaller SP players really powergrind and put themselves in a comfortable position to commit SP to whatever is available on the 6th and still get the weapons they really want on the 14th. Im sure the flaylock and scarmbler are very high on everyones list. Though the flaylock would probably be a SP sink if it needs a nerf as Jenza suggests.
Sorry for the wall. |
Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
154
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Posted - 2013.04.30 01:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote:We dont know what the skill multipliers are going to be and also with reduction of secondary and tertiary prereqs it may be easier to get into certain weapons easier.
This is completely outside the point but, I really think that sidearms should be cheaper skills to unlock as opposed to other weapons. All weapons are 2x to unlock, pistols/SMGs included. Never saw reason behind that. (Yes I know Sidearm sharpshooter/upgrade/yadayada are 1x skills compared to the other upgradier skills). <-Like it should be
Yea i tend to agree. It should be interesting to see with the elimination of certain skills and the reduction in multipliers for others, the only thing left to determine if any skills got an increase if not then that means my SP is going to get a lot of mileage.
After 255M SP though a lot i doubt is whats needed for every skills thats included in the Uprising build but rather all future skills and weapons CCP plans to add.
After all 255MP SP assuming 30M SP generation/year=8.5years.
Considering i have over 10M in 4 months thats where i get 30M from.
High end 12 so lets lets 40M/yr as an real super level of grinding is 6.4 years. |
Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
155
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 04:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:So in the end, Aurum/Dedicated Life will be the demise of Dust 514's opening, as SP gaps will cause unbalance in the universe, throw off new players, and furthermore deter new players due to an extreme uphill battle not to mention learning curve.
I can feel the hatred resonating before I even write, but, what if SP gains were logarithmic? X being time, Y being total SP.
No no and hell no. If anything it should be easier to skill up. After all this game offers something other games that other games that implement prestige systems for leveling cannont.
PERSISTANCE.
Character progression should be quick and fluid mainly because getting to the higher levels of the game is where the real fun and challenge of this game is anyway.
It will be playing for sovereignty and waging war campaigns. That is far more engaging and desirable a reason to continually login than grinding for character progression.
I get that MMO and RPG grinding is part of the culture but ask yourself why this is? Does it serve any purpose other than to artificially extend the life of a game in which the content is limited by what the devs put into it.
This game is unlimited in its content because it is governed by economy, player ambition and imagination. Thats what will make this game thrive. The quicker you can get newer players into those aspects of the game the better it is. Now there is an argument to be made that grinding and facing the difficulty of tough player competition by way of XP gap teaches humility and reinforces the need to think and strategize which will be needed to successfully navigate through players at the higher end of the game.
But cmon man that approach to gaming made sense when the only thing to do was level up your character to give yourself a sense of achievement and more importantly its a operant conditioning program similar to pavlov's dog. Its the only purpose it serves and it gives the illusion of advancement.
This game doesnt need the illusion it has advanceement built in. You begin your days a novice soldier unschooled and untrained in the machinations of war. In time as your skills develop and sharpen you hone them to become fiercer and deadlier. But these aren't artificial skills like weapons or damage or the like. The skills you sharpen are your physical and mental skills.
Your hand/eye coordination, your problem solving, your situtational awareness, your aim, your management of a battlefield, and in time you progress to become a solider well versed in the art of virtual combat ready to navigate the politics and treachery of New EDEN. You are not restricted by mundane constraints like SP you are only restricted by your mind and your abilities, if you are the superior warrior it will translate in your actions as you begin to wage YOUR war on the universe.
There isnt a damn game on earth that can provide what i just described and it mean something or matter. It is also the reason why this game really need NO SP progression at all but if its going to have one make it a short one not a painstakingly long one. Let players begin to make their mark on this universe becuase the sooner they get tied into it the harder it is for them to leave it behind. |
Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
161
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Posted - 2013.04.30 15:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Trust me guys its a current hot topic inside the CPM right now and being discussed between the council and CCP.
What is?
The level of grind or pushing back PC since that was the OP.
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Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
161
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Posted - 2013.04.30 15:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Moved to a different topic since its a worthy side convo. |
Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
161
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 15:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Moved to a new topic since its a side convo, but worth discussing. |
Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
161
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 15:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Moved it to here since its a side convo.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=728800#post728800
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