DUST Search - New Dust players should earn 3x points to catch up

Buster Friently wrote:

Maken Tosch wrote:

BOZ MR wrote:

3X sp will make me play my alt till I hit 3X cap. It benefits old dudes rather than newbs more. What we need is a working matchmaking system.

1. The 2-3x SP should not affect the cap in any way. You'll just hit the cap sooner during the first 1.5 million SP.

2. I agree. Matchmaking will help a lot as well. A combination of these two can go a long way.

3. I believe that if you throw in a training room or something similar, new players will be given a chance to test things out without the risk of losing them in battle.

Which is why there is no need to alter the SP in any way.

To retain new players you need to do two things:

1) funify the game - you do this with a good matchmaker. This way newberries are learning by fighting each other, not getting instakilled countless times by the vets. No amount of SP is going to change the inital ride here.

2) decomplexify the game - Add in a training area so newberries can learn how a dropship flies, or how to fire the forge gun without risking massive ISK in battle. No additional SP will help here either. In fact, extra SP makes this worse.


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Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organization 2138	Posted - 2013.04.29 05:47:00 - [1] - Quote I don't think this is a bad idea. Eve Online had a similar thing going for new players which featured increased training speed up to a certain amount of SP. After that, the player will be throttled back to the standard SP rate in Eve. A temporary 3x SP rate up to 1.5 (one point five) million SP should be ok. It's enough to give new players a chance but not enough to become a specialist in anything. Hell, it took me 2 million SP total just to train Gallente Scout Dropsuit to level 5 and that's not including the core skills needed to back it up which require maybe another 4 million SP.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organization 2140	Posted - 2013.04.29 05:53:00 - [2] - Quote InsidiousN wrote: I put in a certain amount of time and effort to earn as many Skill Points as I have, why should a new player be allowed to put in less time and get the same result? It's not like that at all if I understand the OP correctly. Remember, new players will lose the "2-3x" gain after a certain point which, as I stated before, is not enough to specialize into anything but just enough to keep them salivating. Again, Eve has a similar thing going for it I believe.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organization 2141	Posted - 2013.04.29 06:06:00 - [3] - Quote @Llan The context of that thread you referenced is different from this one. The other thread is comparable to upgrading the engines for new drivers as other (veteran) drivers upgrade to faster cars. This runs the risk of causing major traffic accidents which will cost the city too much money when you have noobs behind the wheels of powerful cars driving at 150 MPH. This thread is comparable to imposing a stricter speed limit after driving only one and a half miles. Even then, the starting speed limit is still no faster than 60 MPH during that time. The first one and half miles is to just give a feel for the car but not enough to be expert in it or cause any problems. Fake Edit: Not sure if this was a good analogy.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organization 2142	Posted - 2013.04.29 06:10:00 - [4] - Quote 0 Try Harder wrote: Llan Heindell wrote: Hopefully the arena modes and the PVE modes will bring some light for noob blueberries. Also, you guys that think this game might die, just check out EvE and rethink your theories. OK So like I said earlier, CCP is going to make a decision on who they would like to play the game. Since the devs went with all EVE people and apparently almost no one who exclusively played FPS console games, they indeed might actually be going after the same market that all the EVE players are in. Since I am a console FPS gamer, I hope that CCP will go after people like me, and keep new players coming in like me happy. I do not play EVE, and although it started to sound cool, there is no way in the world I would ever start a game where I'm forever stuck at a huge gear disadvantage, and where I would slowly accumulate passive SP to make it so I can actually compete at the top level. There are two groups here. But you have to realize that there has to be a limit on how much of a boost a new player can receive. We'll just have to leave it to CCP to decide on that. They have the raw data anyways. We don't.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organization 2144	Posted - 2013.04.29 19:07:00 - [5] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: @Llan The context of that thread you referenced is different from this one. The other thread is comparable to upgrading the engines for new drivers as other (veteran) drivers upgrade to faster cars. This runs the risk of causing major traffic accidents which will cost the city too much money when you have noobs behind the wheels of powerful cars driving at 150 MPH. This thread is comparable to imposing a stricter speed limit after driving only one and a half miles. Even then, the starting speed limit is still no faster than 60 MPH during that time. The first one and half miles is to just give a feel for the car but not enough to be expert in it or cause any problems. Fake Edit: Not sure if this was a good analogy. Just to reiterate what I was referring to. Giving a slight boost to new players is nothing new in New Eden. Again, Eve Online has a similar system in place where new players are given a slight boost in training speed but only up to about 2million SP (give or take 200k~) after which the rate of gaining SP is throttled back to normal. This has the following benefits: 1. Gives new players a chance to try some skills and wet their feet a little to get a feel for the game. 2. This in no way breaks the game because the amount of SP given is no where near enough to specialize into anything let alone train up skills that support that specialty. If you have followed up on my Ninja Knifing Diaries, you will notice that it took me 1.2 million SP just to upgrade Gallente Scout Dropsuit to Level 5 which brings the overall SP invested into that book alone to 2.4 million SP. It also took nearly my entire 300k~ starter SP to train up Dropsuit Command to level 4 or 5. This is not including the massive investment I had to make to cover the core skills. It's one thing to quickly go proto on a suit or weapon. But that proto item is useless without the skills needed to back it up. You might be able to get a proto gun real quick but you'll have to sacrifice defenses, speed, damage mods, and fitting flexibility to use that weapon on a militia suit that is weak and severely limited. In retrospect, the same can be said for players who invested starter SP on core skills first but are unable to use the powerful weapons yet. So maybe a 2x starter SP gain up to 1.2~ million SP is ok on my book. But you still have to grind matches to take advantage of the minor boost. Active boosters should have NO impact on this limit in any way other than to expedite the player's speed to 1.2 million SP.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organization 2145	Posted - 2013.04.30 00:35:00 - [6] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: I've been saying this from the first SP topic I saw: A rolling cap with diminishing returns. Simples. Wrong topic. You're talking about weekly caps. We're talking about just the first 1.2 million SP for new players.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organization 2146	Posted - 2013.04.30 00:55:00 - [7] - Quote BOZ MR wrote: 3X sp will make me play my alt till I hit 3X cap. It benefits old dudes rather than newbs more. What we need is a working matchmaking system. 1. The 2-3x SP should not affect the cap in any way. You'll just hit the cap sooner during the first 1.5 million SP. 2. I agree. Matchmaking will help a lot as well. A combination of these two can go a long way. 3. I believe that if you throw in a training room or something similar, new players will be given a chance to test things out without the risk of losing them in battle.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organization 2146	Posted - 2013.04.30 01:03:00 - [8] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: BOZ MR wrote: 3X sp will make me play my alt till I hit 3X cap. It benefits old dudes rather than newbs more. What we need is a working matchmaking system. 1. The 2-3x SP should not affect the cap in any way. You'll just hit the cap sooner during the first 1.5 million SP. 2. I agree. Matchmaking will help a lot as well. A combination of these two can go a long way. 3. I believe that if you throw in a training room or something similar, new players will be given a chance to test things out without the risk of losing them in battle. Which is why there is no need to alter the SP in any way. To retain new players you need to do two things: 1) funify the game - you do this with a good matchmaker. This way newberries are learning by fighting each other, not getting instakilled countless times by the vets. No amount of SP is going to change the inital ride here. 2) decomplexify the game - Add in a training area so newberries can learn how a dropship flies, or how to fire the forge gun without risking massive ISK in battle. No additional SP will help here either. In fact, extra SP makes this worse. That's a good alternative.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organization 2148	Posted - 2013.04.30 04:04:00 - [9] - Quote SIRAJKNIGHT wrote: No thanks, it took me months until i got the skillpoints i needed to skill up what i have currently. I don't want a newbie getting his 1 million sp in just a week Ten years from now you will look back and wonder why any of us thought 1 million SP was a lot while you and I look at our astonishing 200 million SP while some Eve players have 400 million SP. Again, Eve Online has a similar incentive for new players working for them. But of course, after thinking about it, the console player is different from the PC player. On top of that, Eve players already have a myriad of off-line tools made available to them by third party developers and from CCP. I agree that maybe a solid matchmaking system mixed with a big enough training room/firing range is enough to give new players an incentive to stay.