DUST Search - Hey CCP, You have about a week to add WP for pilots

Nguruthos IX wrote:

Sephirian Fair wrote:

Nguruthos IX wrote:

forge guns in general and the abundance(and OPness) of militia forge guns in particular make 'speed tanking' a non-option.

They're too powerful and easy to aim. No speed ever saved a DS from my fg and I suck at first person shooters.

In Battlefield, Choppers drop dead in two hits, Jets in a single one. But the best pilots can survive entire matches of Rush or Conquest purely because of their ability to speed tank. (EDIT: And a few proper countermeasure, when they weren't bugged.) The vehicles are fast and agile enough that they can dominate even against the most dedicated AV specialist.

But the dropships in Dust are slow as hell and have the acceleration of a god damn armor tank. Give an ace pilot an air vehicle that moves as fast as LAV with some decent acceleration and all he needs is the ability to tank a hit or two and he'll/she'll be good to go.

Also correct me if I'm wrong but in BF there are no forge guns with near instant tracking. Don't they have to use missiles or RPGs? And wouldn't even a heli have flares to throw off heat seeking things?


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Sephirian Fair Defensores Doctrina 54	Posted - 2013.04.28 17:31:00 - [1] - Quote gbghg wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: if dropships still don't have any WP system, there's no reason for them, unless you go Assault and beast out with the front turret. I plan to try this, I expect it to go horribly wrong. With a reduced flight ceiling for Assault Dropships and a mandatory three turrets, I've nearly lost all hope concerning the Assault Dropships being an effective means of Air Support. The only chance they have is if they have insane acceleration and the top speed of an LAV, but CCP's track record with dropships leaves me doubtful, unfortunately.
Sephirian Fair Defensores Doctrina 55	Posted - 2013.04.28 17:41:00 - [2] - Quote Ten-Sidhe wrote: Where did you get idea ceiling was lowered for assault dropships? The low level flavor text? That could just mean future aircraft(like fighters) have ceiling higher then dropships do now. In this thread by Shouper of BHD. LINK: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=70876&find=unread Stated that Assault Dropships will have a lower flight ceiling than other variants.
Sephirian Fair Defensores Doctrina 55	Posted - 2013.04.28 17:50:00 - [3] - Quote gbghg wrote: Sephirian Fair wrote: gbghg wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: if dropships still don't have any WP system, there's no reason for them, unless you go Assault and beast out with the front turret. I plan to try this, I expect it to go horribly wrong. With a reduced flight ceiling for Assault Dropships and a mandatory three turrets, I've nearly lost all hope concerning the Assault Dropships being an effective means of Air Support. The only chance they have is if they have insane acceleration and the top speed of an LAV, but CCP's track record with dropships leaves me doubtful, unfortunately. Yeah fitting that thing is going to be horrible, particularly the caldari one, I shudder to think about how little PG it will have to fit tank modules, specially with adv/proto turrets. On top of have lower base Shields/Armor, it's going to be a nightmare trying to find a good fitting. It's going to be as fragile as a vehicle out of Battlefield. It needs to be fast as hell. Speed tanking is going to be the only way to go. The ability to take a hit or two, get the hell out of dodge, and come back in for another run. I just don't think they're going to be fast enough. Just a really bad feeling. I don't think it is going to be fast and agile enough to be effective. But in all seriousness, the three mandatory turrets was possibly the worst possible design decision they could have made with the Assault Dropships. There isn't enough PG to go around and the Caldari one is especially screwed. Once you stick that Scattered Ion Blaster on the front and stick two basic missiles on the sides, you're out of half your PG right there. Unless base CPU and PG values have been increased, it's going to be another very long, very frustrating 3-6 months for pilots. I feel for you guys. I used to be a pilot in previous builds, but CCP took away my Southpaw control scheme this build and I've been grounded since. I was so freakin' excited when I heard of Assault Dropships, but CCP finds it necessary to handicap something that has already such a limited use.
Sephirian Fair Defensores Doctrina 55	Posted - 2013.04.28 17:55:00 - [4] - Quote Marston VC wrote: GUYS on may 6th there will be the option to fly "assault dropships" and that basically means you'll have a forward turret that the pilot can shoot himself. The passenger space for this ship is only 4, but I think the trade off is worth it. That's your chance to start making some points, just gotta get used to killing people with the forward guns. That and if you stick a mobile CRU onboard I think that would give you a bunch more points also. While the forward turret is a fantastic addition, the two passenger turrets are still on the Assault Dropship. Having three mandatory turrets is extremely restricting as of how PG starved Dropships are and how much PG even the most basic of turrets soak up. With how little PG dropships possess, there is no space for a Mobile CRU. That's going to have to be left for Standards and Logistical ships. There's not going to be a way to properly fit it. Assault Dropships have three things working against them. Lowered flight ceiling, mandatory three turrets, and lowered base health.
Sephirian Fair Defensores Doctrina 55	Posted - 2013.04.28 18:01:00 - [5] - Quote Nguruthos IX wrote: forge guns in general and the abundance(and OPness) of militia forge guns in particular make 'speed tanking' a non-option. They're too powerful and easy to aim. No speed ever saved a DS from my fg and I suck at first person shooters. In Battlefield, Choppers drop dead in two hits, Jets in a single one. But the best pilots can survive entire matches of Rush or Conquest purely because of their ability to speed tank. (EDIT: And a few proper countermeasure, when they weren't bugged.) The vehicles are fast and agile enough that they can dominate even against the most dedicated AV specialist. But the dropships in Dust are slow as hell and have the acceleration of a god damn armor tank. Give an ace pilot an air vehicle that moves as fast as LAV with some decent acceleration and all he needs is the ability to tank a hit or two and he'll/she'll be good to go.
Sephirian Fair Defensores Doctrina 55	Posted - 2013.04.28 18:29:00 - [6] - Quote Nguruthos IX wrote: Sephirian Fair wrote: Nguruthos IX wrote: forge guns in general and the abundance(and OPness) of militia forge guns in particular make 'speed tanking' a non-option. They're too powerful and easy to aim. No speed ever saved a DS from my fg and I suck at first person shooters. In Battlefield, Choppers drop dead in two hits, Jets in a single one. But the best pilots can survive entire matches of Rush or Conquest purely because of their ability to speed tank. (EDIT: And a few proper countermeasure, when they weren't bugged.) The vehicles are fast and agile enough that they can dominate even against the most dedicated AV specialist. But the dropships in Dust are slow as hell and have the acceleration of a god damn armor tank. Give an ace pilot an air vehicle that moves as fast as LAV with some decent acceleration and all he needs is the ability to tank a hit or two and he'll/she'll be good to go. Also correct me if I'm wrong but in BF there are no forge guns with near instant tracking. Don't they have to use missiles or RPGs? And wouldn't even a heli have flares to throw off heat seeking things? You technically still have to lead with a forge gun. It's fast, I'm not going to deny, but pilots deal with Stingers in Battlefield which move so fast that they cause numerous bugs with the countermeasures. In spite of that, the concept is still the same. Because of certain aspects, the speedy air vehicles need to be fast and tank a couple hits to ensure survival. My brother is a dedicated Forge Gunner, so I've had good experience seeing both sides of it. The Forge Guns are also getting their range cut back with the removal of all range increasing skills. The Forge has 300 base range which increase to over 400 once you get enough Sharpshooter. A fast and agile vehicle uses the speed to make to use terrain/buildings as cover as they make an escape. Right now, Dropships are so damn slow, my brother pops 3 hits into them before they get up to any kind of speed, certainly killing them. However, before the afterburner modules were nerfed, dropships that used the afterburners were seeing much greater survivability. One hit, activate module, and they're long gone, way out of Forge Gun range before the second shot is lined up and charged. Speed tanking would work in Dust purely because weapons have set ranges. They don't just keep going. It worked semi-well when the Missiles reign king, because Swarm missiles were slower/had a wonky chase path, and Dropships had the ability to kill Heavies with Forge Guns. When all ranges get cut down without Sharpshooter, being able to move faster becomes much more effective. All you have to do is get to some cover or get past 300 meters.
Sephirian Fair Defensores Doctrina 55	Posted - 2013.04.28 18:33:00 - [7] - Quote Shouper of BHD wrote: Sephirian Fair wrote: Nguruthos IX wrote: forge guns in general and the abundance(and OPness) of militia forge guns in particular make 'speed tanking' a non-option. They're too powerful and easy to aim. No speed ever saved a DS from my fg and I suck at first person shooters. In Battlefield, Choppers drop dead in two hits, Jets in a single one. But the best pilots can survive entire matches of Rush or Conquest purely because of their ability to speed tank. (EDIT: And a few proper countermeasure, when they weren't bugged.) The vehicles are fast and agile enough that they can dominate even against the most dedicated AV specialist. But the dropships in Dust are slow as hell and have the acceleration of a god damn armor tank. Give an ace pilot an air vehicle that moves as fast as LAV with some decent acceleration and all he needs is the ability to tank a hit or two and he'll/she'll be good to go. ...idk if this is a good time to mention but they buffed the acceloration on logi LAVs from what I saw of gameplay of Uprising. Hopefully that extends towards the Air vehicles. However the one video I saw had some footage of Dropships being used, but they seemed to move relatively the same speed. I also heard the controls where moving to R2 and L2 for acceleration and reverse, which is a great addition. Using the sticks for that kind of thing has been brutal, lol.
Sephirian Fair Defensores Doctrina 55	Posted - 2013.04.28 18:42:00 - [8] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Until you see the full specs on these vehicles you don't know how useless or op they're going to be. For all you know they could have a bonus applied from your skill level reducing the cpu or pg of a specific turret type, allowing you to get a decent tank on there after you've specialised into that vehicle or it's type. If I remember correctly and they haven't changed it, the passive skill for Assault Dropships is a %increase to Turret damage and a very small %increase to passive resistance of the vehicle type. I believe it was about 2% per level. The 10% passive resistance is fairly nice, but doesn't seem like it enough to compensate. Don't get me wrong... I want to be wrong. I would love for Dropships to be greatly used and effective equipment. However, with the information that CCP has given us, it does not feel this way. I am providing feedback in the hope that there will be someone at CCP who takes note of this for later balancing measures or perhaps to come here and state that my fears are unfounded, that there is an increase to base PG and CPU, that that decided against the reduced flight ceiling, or that the damn thing is an LAV with wings and a jet engine. I am not bashing CCP (With exception of the one remark that the Three Turrets was the worst possible design decision), but just stating my fears and concerns about the upcoming Assault Dropship.