DUST Search - Crowdsourcing: A key to success?

Kiso Okami wrote:

Greetings, ladies and GÇ£ladiesGÇ¥ (wonder if youGÇÖll get this reference)...

Today, I wanted to bring a topic to you based on something that has come up in some of my conversations over at the IRC. I was talking to CCP LogicLoop about maps and wanted to know how they worked and why they were taking a bit too long to get them all corrected (sometimes even my patience runs out), changed or modified for differentiation. Then I asked him something along the lines of GÇ£is there even an GÇÿUnrealModGÇÖ type tool for DUST 514?GÇ¥ and he did answer to that affirmative. I was pretty sure the he was likely talking about the engine itself (Unreal Engine). So I asked him of a possibility that we could have an equivalent tool for this, to which he replied with a GÇ£maybeGÇ¥ type response (he wasnGÇÖt sure because either thatGÇÖs not on the roadmap or he was not aware of it). Further along, I think about the possible implications of having players help further the development of this game and I find myself typing this post for you to read.

What is your (the players) opinion on crowdsourcing? Is it something that could help DUST progress as a game? Would like to have a crack at the make-up of the world of New Eden, bet in the form of player-created or player-modified maps? How far would you like to get crowdsourcing, given the chance to have it? Personally, these questions IGÇÖd have an answer for myself (theyGÇÖre just opinions though). I have always been the kind that likes to create stuff, either for the sake of creation or for the mere representation of what the world looks like in my eyes.

Given the chance, I would personally like to create my own collection of drop-suits and vehicles, not because I think the current ones are not attractive to me (some of these do look quite interesting and do paint the world in the colors of their respective factions), but because I sometimes think that the extra input helps add another layer of perspective (the idea of what you personally would like to see found in this world, for one). The same I could say of maps, actually. Sometimes I think that I can do something in a completely different way, one that completely eschews the current concepts of what CCP think New Eden represents all the while representing what New Eden is (or is not, in the case of utopian concepts).

Obviously, there are so many ways that one can create a map or a drop-suit, or even a vehicle, but that does not mean that they have to follow a strict (GÇÿrigidGÇÖ might be a better word) set of design guides to get good results. This is where I think that crowd sourcing could help DUST 514, and, personally, I think crowd-sourcing, even if limited, could help bring that deeper feel of community that this game needs to achieve great success. I am certain that this would also help bring even more of a sense of story for the game, as well as add to the depth of character interaction (read: role-play). Obviously, creating an individual character, down to the equipment he carries, would help make these, generally no-name, bland individuals we know as clones far more unique as individuals even beyond the idea of being soldiers or mercs.

Of course, crowd-sourcing does not come without faults, and one would say that the biggest fault of a crowd sourcing system is usually the one reason that many a company often refuse to even support it. It has to be noted that crowd sourcing would also mean that the idea of the game, the one that the companies (in this case CCP), would be diluted under the scope. Maybe they want us to not have such a heavy input in their world and change it beyond what they think New Eden (rather than DUST or EVE) should be. Yes, they did host one contest in which ideas for new EVE ships were to be crowd sourced, but you can say they made the conservative picks for the winners, that is, those that won were chosen because their designs were the most relevant to EVE, and not one winning concept stood out for being unique (in the sense of not fitting in any known faction). But once again, CCP does look to crowd sourcing, if only in the forum of events.

Now, letGÇÖs go back to the questionsGÇª

What is your opinion on crowd sourcing?
Do you think CCP would benefit from having a more permanent (or recurring) crowdsourcing system?
How far would you like to see DUST let you crowd source (just modding or creating original content from scratch, or something in between)?

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Kiso Okami Militaires Sans Jeux 57	Posted - 2013.04.20 23:26:00 - [1] - Quote Greetings, ladies and GÇ£ladiesGÇ¥ (wonder if youGÇÖll get this reference)... Today, I wanted to bring a topic to you based on something that has come up in some of my conversations over at the IRC. I was talking to CCP LogicLoop about maps and wanted to know how they worked and why they were taking a bit too long to get them all corrected (sometimes even my patience runs out), changed or modified for differentiation. Then I asked him something along the lines of GÇ£is there even an GÇÿUnrealModGÇÖ type tool for DUST 514?GÇ¥ and he did answer to that affirmative. I was pretty sure the he was likely talking about the engine itself (Unreal Engine). So I asked him of a possibility that we could have an equivalent tool for this, to which he replied with a GÇ£maybeGÇ¥ type response (he wasnGÇÖt sure because either thatGÇÖs not on the roadmap or he was not aware of it). Further along, I think about the possible implications of having players help further the development of this game and I find myself typing this post for you to read. What is your (the players) opinion on crowdsourcing? Is it something that could help DUST progress as a game? Would like to have a crack at the make-up of the world of New Eden, bet in the form of player-created or player-modified maps? How far would you like to get crowdsourcing, given the chance to have it? Personally, these questions IGÇÖd have an answer for myself (theyGÇÖre just opinions though). I have always been the kind that likes to create stuff, either for the sake of creation or for the mere representation of what the world looks like in my eyes. Given the chance, I would personally like to create my own collection of drop-suits and vehicles, not because I think the current ones are not attractive to me (some of these do look quite interesting and do paint the world in the colors of their respective factions), but because I sometimes think that the extra input helps add another layer of perspective (the idea of what you personally would like to see found in this world, for one). The same I could say of maps, actually. Sometimes I think that I can do something in a completely different way, one that completely eschews the current concepts of what CCP think New Eden represents all the while representing what New Eden is (or is not, in the case of utopian concepts). Obviously, there are so many ways that one can create a map or a drop-suit, or even a vehicle, but that does not mean that they have to follow a strict (GÇÿrigidGÇÖ might be a better word) set of design guides to get good results. This is where I think that crowd sourcing could help DUST 514, and, personally, I think crowd-sourcing, even if limited, could help bring that deeper feel of community that this game needs to achieve great success. I am certain that this would also help bring even more of a sense of story for the game, as well as add to the depth of character interaction (read: role-play). Obviously, creating an individual character, down to the equipment he carries, would help make these, generally no-name, bland individuals we know as clones far more unique as individuals even beyond the idea of being soldiers or mercs. Of course, crowd-sourcing does not come without faults, and one would say that the biggest fault of a crowd sourcing system is usually the one reason that many a company often refuse to even support it. It has to be noted that crowd sourcing would also mean that the idea of the game, the one that the companies (in this case CCP), would be diluted under the scope. Maybe they want us to not have such a heavy input in their world and change it beyond what they think New Eden (rather than DUST or EVE) should be. Yes, they did host one contest in which ideas for new EVE ships were to be crowd sourced, but you can say they made the conservative picks for the winners, that is, those that won were chosen because their designs were the most relevant to EVE, and not one winning concept stood out for being unique (in the sense of not fitting in any known faction). But once again, CCP does look to crowd sourcing, if only in the forum of events. Now, letGÇÖs go back to the questionsGÇª What is your opinion on crowd sourcing? Do you think CCP would benefit from having a more permanent (or recurring) crowdsourcing system? How far would you like to see DUST let you crowd source (just modding or creating original content from scratch, or something in between)?
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 379	Posted - 2013.04.20 23:44:00 - [2] - Quote Crowdsourcing, aka getting people to work for you for free. If you want to do that, good for me. Gamers are already doing it. Witness various wikis, and how game companies don't bother to write manuals or guides anymore since gamers do it for them for free. Oh, and how gamers beta test games for free.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 517	Posted - 2013.04.20 23:50:00 - [3] - Quote It'd be interesting. The soul of a game, as the OP notes, can be diluted by outsourcing. See Skyrim, for example. Not all the mods created by the community revolve around an epic storyline, dragons and the simply majestic nature of the open world. Most do, but not all. You could say, then, when players browse those mods and try them out, what Bethesda's core intentions for Skyrim are shunted to the side for the fun of the mod. Here, though, crowdsourcing may have its place to an extent. In DUST, we're mercenaries. Typically, we fight for money. Why should our equipment not reflect that? If the cheapest dropsuit is a Frankenstein's monster of different bits and pieces of dozens of whole dropsuits, I'd use it. If I was a sniper, and that meant my helmet should be the smallest one, but I still needed equipment slots, hell, why can't I take a small frame dropsuit head and throw it on a medium frame dropsuit? Mercenaries aren't militia soldiers or part of armies. We don't conform, nor do we wear a single uniform. To the extent that we could express individuality which actually affects the gameplay, that would be worth outsourcing. It'd enhance the immersion instead of detract from it, I'd say. And this way, matches would be so much more fun if each person's gun is unique to them. It'd make more sense that you couldn't simply pick up a dead person's weapon and use it without confusion, even if you could detach it from the dropsuit. However, I suppose it should be mentioned that if everyone did have their own equipment, the ability for commanders to work their RTS game high above the battlefield will be severely impaired. Usually, "two fatties and logis" means exactly that. Two heavies who're supported by logibros. But with this, who's to know what the logis and heavies have equipped. Imagine a heavy suit wielding a heavy machine gun that has its bullets replaced by ammunition-resupplying nanites, spewing ammunition into the mass driving logibros, one of whose MDs is firing flux rounds, with the other heavy dual wielding prototype repair tools. To keep track of 16 unique mercenaries and create strategies to counter not only their movement, but also their equipment? Suddenly the position doesn't seem so appealing anymore.
Kiso Okami Militaires Sans Jeux 57	Posted - 2013.04.21 00:43:00 - [4] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: post I really wanted to avoid the whole economical aspects of crowd-sourcing because it's really not relevant to what it can propose in term of in-game prospects. So, yes, my original post assumes that CCP would still develop the game at the same pace that they have been doing as of current knowledge. Vyzion Eyri wrote: post Yes, this is what I was trying to look for. How deep can one go before one sees crowd sourcing or modding becoming a problem. In the case of one being able to create their own sets of drop-suits (be them from already created pieces or a completely original design), the general solution to diversity comes in the form of "doctrines". In EVE, fleet doctrines create a set composition for fleets that dictate what people can and cannot field for a given situation. That can already be applied here if you tell people what they are allowed to field for a given battle (though, in the end, there will be situation where you will have to break formation to actually achieve an objective). It'd be interesting to see Gallente drop-suit with Caldari parameters/bonuses and the Caldari with Minmatar, or even an Ammar Heavy with Gallente Assault bonuses, yes. This also applies to maps as well. It'd be interesting to see a map deep behind Gallente borders with a good set of non-industrial Ammar engineering (Ammar city in my Fed space? BLASPHEMY!), and of course, with even some Gallente structures oatched alongand also add to the identity of the place. One could also take the whole 'cosmetic only' approach. It won't be as deep as one would want, but at the very least it would allow you to have an identity past the whole "I'm a soldier and I look like everyone else" sense that sometimes comes up.
bumm baliste TTCorp 0	Posted - 2013.04.21 01:03:00 - [5] - Quote Dude this could be ******* cool. I mean it could be a lot of work for CCP but, we could see entire maps designed by players, some really cool new novel ideas, with CCP only having to polish the map to their standards. Granted I imagine most would be tossed out right but still could be amazing. And yes it is CCP getting free work out of its paying costumers but it also could mean paying customers getting more of what they want faster.
bumm baliste TTCorp 0	Posted - 2013.04.21 01:11:00 - [6] - Quote I should clarify I'm not backing mods I don't think they would work, but I am backing user submissions to CCP as CCP has seemed to love to have the input and they could add a lot to the game with a relatively (i assume) small amount of work from ccp. where I could see this being really big would be in esports arenas, actually there could be a lot of leeway there, but there could be a lot of other things.
Kiso Okami Militaires Sans Jeux 57	Posted - 2013.04.21 02:15:00 - [7] - Quote I wouldn't mind if CCP had the final say in what went through and what wouldn't make into a crowd-source program/service. I assume that they would choose the option that causes less friction with them, and I'd guess that would be it.
Vethosis Universal Allies Inc. 2	Posted - 2013.04.21 02:25:00 - [8] - Quote Kiso Okami wrote: Greetings, ladies and GÇ£ladiesGÇ¥ (wonder if youGÇÖll get this reference)... Today, I wanted to bring a topic to you based on something that has come up in some of my conversations over at the IRC. I was talking to CCP LogicLoop about maps and wanted to know how they worked and why they were taking a bit too long to get them all corrected (sometimes even my patience runs out), changed or modified for differentiation. Then I asked him something along the lines of GÇ£is there even an GÇÿUnrealModGÇÖ type tool for DUST 514?GÇ¥ and he did answer to that affirmative. I was pretty sure the he was likely talking about the engine itself (Unreal Engine). So I asked him of a possibility that we could have an equivalent tool for this, to which he replied with a GÇ£maybeGÇ¥ type response (he wasnGÇÖt sure because either thatGÇÖs not on the roadmap or he was not aware of it). Further along, I think about the possible implications of having players help further the development of this game and I find myself typing this post for you to read. What is your (the players) opinion on crowdsourcing? Is it something that could help DUST progress as a game? Would like to have a crack at the make-up of the world of New Eden, bet in the form of player-created or player-modified maps? How far would you like to get crowdsourcing, given the chance to have it? Personally, these questions IGÇÖd have an answer for myself (theyGÇÖre just opinions though). I have always been the kind that likes to create stuff, either for the sake of creation or for the mere representation of what the world looks like in my eyes. Given the chance, I would personally like to create my own collection of drop-suits and vehicles, not because I think the current ones are not attractive to me (some of these do look quite interesting and do paint the world in the colors of their respective factions), but because I sometimes think that the extra input helps add another layer of perspective (the idea of what you personally would like to see found in this world, for one). The same I could say of maps, actually. Sometimes I think that I can do something in a completely different way, one that completely eschews the current concepts of what CCP think New Eden represents all the while representing what New Eden is (or is not, in the case of utopian concepts). Obviously, there are so many ways that one can create a map or a drop-suit, or even a vehicle, but that does not mean that they have to follow a strict (GÇÿrigidGÇÖ might be a better word) set of design guides to get good results. This is where I think that crowd sourcing could help DUST 514, and, personally, I think crowd-sourcing, even if limited, could help bring that deeper feel of community that this game needs to achieve great success. I am certain that this would also help bring even more of a sense of story for the game, as well as add to the depth of character interaction (read: role-play). Obviously, creating an individual character, down to the equipment he carries, would help make these, generally no-name, bland individuals we know as clones far more unique as individuals even beyond the idea of being soldiers or mercs. Of course, crowd-sourcing does not come without faults, and one would say that the biggest fault of a crowd sourcing system is usually the one reason that many a company often refuse to even support it. It has to be noted that crowd sourcing would also mean that the idea of the game, the one that the companies (in this case CCP), would be diluted under the scope. Maybe they want us to not have such a heavy input in their world and change it beyond what they think New Eden (rather than DUST or EVE) should be. Yes, they did host one contest in which ideas for new EVE ships were to be crowd sourced, but you can say they made the conservative picks for the winners, that is, those that won were chosen because their designs were the most relevant to EVE, and not one winning concept stood out for being unique (in the sense of not fitting in any known faction). But once again, CCP does look to crowd sourcing, if only in the forum of events. Now, letGÇÖs go back to the questionsGÇª What is your opinion on crowd sourcing? Do you think CCP would benefit from having a more permanent (or recurring) crowdsourcing system? How far would you like to see DUST let you crowd source (just modding or creating original content from scratch, or something in between)? Do you mean ladies as in men who make girl characters?
Kiso Okami Militaires Sans Jeux 59	Posted - 2013.04.21 02:29:00 - [9] - Quote Vethosis wrote: Do you mean ladies as in men who make girl characters? It's actually a military reference. But that works too! lol
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3593	Posted - 2013.04.21 02:59:00 - [10] - Quote Mods are bad for most games I strongly disagree with UI assistance. As for ideas, we have Features and ideas and technical support for bug reporting. The most crowdsource thing I would love to see is arena mode having a map maker. The most popular arena maps get reviewed and added to high sec instant matches and default arena map list :D. As well as game modes if possible to set up.

5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4q Intara Direct Action Caldari State 16	Posted - 2013.04.21 03:15:00 - [11] - Quote Steve Jobs did not crowdsource iPod It takes a good designer to lead the masses, otherwise it is just some communist rollercoaster which does everything but nothing great.
Noraa Anderson Nox Aeterna Security 190	Posted - 2013.04.21 04:06:00 - [12] - Quote 5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4q wrote: Steve Jobs did not crowdsource iPod It takes a good designer to lead the masses, otherwise it is just some communist rollercoaster which does everything but nothing great. Steve Jobs died of cancer after successfully marketing overpriced kittens to simpletons.
Planetside2Bomberr Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.07.13 05:54:00 - [13] - Quote 5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4q wrote: Steve Jobs did not crowdsource iPod It takes a good designer to lead the masses, otherwise it is just some communist rollercoaster which does everything but nothing great. Be your own Judge. What game looks like more fun to you? Dust.........Or these other F2P games coming this year......... Planetside 2 (19 GOTY Awards) Coming to PS4 this year... 1080p Ultra settings at Night Intense Open Field Battle 100 Man Infantry Objective Push Desert Infantry Line Huge Desert Tank Battle Intense Uphill Battle Open Desert Firefight 100 Tank Convoy 150 man Air Raid 65/0 Kill streak in the air True Teamwork Galaxy Drops NC Montage Planetside 2 Machinima Factions Explained Why you should Play Planetside 2 From Vets ______________________________________________________________________________ Also F2P this year... BlackLight Retribution PS4 Announcement Trailer IGN Video Review 8.5 HD Gameplay _______________________________________________________________________________ Warframe PS4 Announcement Trailer E3 Live Demo on PS4 HD Gameplay


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