DUST Search - They say not p2w

Altina McAlterson wrote:

GeneralButtNaked wrote:

Altina McAlterson wrote:

I can't take it anymore. Can we stop using "pay to win"? Isn't there something else to call it? I mean it's just starting to sound so stupid with the "pay to win tanks" and the "pay to win neo suit". Because they're not winning. That P2W tank is on fire and I just killed the P2W dropsuit with a militia AR.

I believe the most accurate term is supremacy goods. That is why I use it.

Honestly even that seems a bit excessive. I get it that technically they are the "supreme" version but when you really get down to it the advantage is seriously not that great. To be perfectly honest people have no perspective at all and think anything stronger than them is completely unbeatable and isn't fair.

General, the rest of this is directed at everyone so it's not a personal attack.

So the other can use AUR items to fit a complex damage mod when you can only fit an advanced. He's doing 6% more damage than you. That's a winnable situation unless your only strategy is to stand there and shoot each other in the face until someone dies.

Yes there is an advantage with these items and no I don't think they belong in the game but everybody seriously needs to stop acting like everybody else IS OVER 9000!!!!!!!! because they have AUR gear. It's hurting you as a player. When you die you need to run over every mistake you made in your head and improve your game instead of raging about the other guy's gear. That's why everybody is still so damn scrubby.

I've listened to weeks and weeks of whining about broken damage mods when they weren't even broken. That means they got straight up outplayed and I bet they didn't learn jack from it.

I called it "AUR grade" gear in another thread and I'm going with that.

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DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 65	Posted - 2013.04.20 23:08:00 - [31] - Quote I like the idea of a paint bucket... Though cosmetics must go way more in depth. Im talking about Midnight Club 3: DUB Edition - Remix, in depth. It is a racing game. In that game you could customize A TON. For paint you got different 'types'; there was glossy, metallic, matte and my favorite, pearlescent (two colors show, depending from where the light is hitting it). You could change windshield color, bumpers, grills, neon lights, hoods, trunks, tails, wheelie bars, mufflers, decals... And so much other stuff that I can't remember. I want my dropsuit to be a work of art, I would pay money for that! :D
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1198	Posted - 2013.04.20 23:10:00 - [32] - Quote So once the game is released, buy the AUR versions from other players with ISK.
DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 65	Posted - 2013.04.20 23:17:00 - [33] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: So once the game is released, buy the AUR versions from other players with ISK. Yes.
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 2067	Posted - 2013.04.20 23:27:00 - [34] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am saying that if a player provides a base item that get modified by the 'virus' you bought to reduce its skills or fitting requirements it would leave the base item in the hands of the original manufacturer to still be involved in eve nomics while still letting ccp sell the 'viruses' to make money. I mean look at the possible paint bucket option. you still need to buy the base item paint it. Virus? Hmm. Sounds like it might work. But there is a difference between what looks good on paper and how it works in practicality.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 379	Posted - 2013.04.20 23:41:00 - [35] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: CCP has to get money somehow, giving players an advantage in exchange for money makes sense, at least from CCP's standpoint. It may drive away casual players but chances are that players that stick with the game will spend a lot more then any casual players would. I and many others will leave the game for good if these issues are not fixed, and Dust becomes P2W. And for the record I've bought two Merc packs already.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3591	Posted - 2013.04.20 23:56:00 - [36] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: So once the game is released, buy the AUR versions from other players with ISK. Just lets not make the mistake of making AUR itself is not buyable.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 1070	Posted - 2013.04.21 00:03:00 - [37] - Quote Geth Massredux wrote: So if its P2W so what... It is what it is... Made me chuckle out loud...nice
Illuminaughty-696 Omega Risk Control Services 254	Posted - 2013.04.21 16:58:00 - [38] - Quote Geth Massredux wrote: So if its P2W so what... It is what it is... I'd agree with you except they specifically stated it would not be. Unless we want it to be p2w, which I at least would prefer it not be, then we have to keep calling them on crap like this. CCP keeps 'accidentally' putting in AUR gear that is better than ISK gear, having it pointed out to them, and then promising to fix it (which they do -- after selling a crap ton of course). This is not the first time nor is it likely to be the last.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 385	Posted - 2013.04.21 18:19:00 - [39] - Quote WyrmHero1945 wrote: Having less CPU/PG is not significantly better and is not p2w. Now p2w would be if you could only buy complex mods with AUR. The fittings you can make thanks to the lower fitting requirements are significantly more powerful than isk-only counterparts. Extra complex armour plate anyone?
BlG MAMA Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 53	Posted - 2013.04.21 18:43:00 - [40] - Quote CCP lied Dust514 is a P2W model as long as there is AURUM gear and weapons on the MARKET that are NOT skins. The reason why Dust514 is not on Xbox360 is because M$ most likely wanted a share from those AURUM revenues because we all know M$ are greedy and CCP is the same. Sure we got the game for "FREE" but i would rather pay 60$ for the game and have everyone separated by skill not by real $$$. Dust514 has no future and i am pissed off about it , i was hyped like hell the first time they announced the game. When CCP said game was "FREE" i couldnt belive it because i know all "FREE" games are P2W on PC and CCP is a PC developer , they are used to getting milk every month from EVE cows. Now CCP tries to milk us. Well they wont milking me.

DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 73	Posted - 2013.04.21 18:56:00 - [41] - Quote BlG MAMA wrote: CCP lied Dust514 is a P2W model as long as there is AURUM gear and weapons on the MARKET that are NOT skins. The reason why Dust514 is not on Xbox360 is because M$ most likely wanted a share from those AURUM revenues because we all know M$ are greedy and CCP is the same. Sure we got the game for "FREE" but i would rather pay 60$ for the game and have everyone separated by skill not by real $$$. Dust514 has no future and i am pissed off about it , i was hyped like hell the first time they announced the game. When CCP said game was "FREE" i couldnt belive it because i know all "FREE" games are P2W on PC and CCP is a PC developer , they are used to getting milk every month from EVE cows. Now CCP tries to milk us. Well they wont milking me. No utter?
BlG MAMA Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 53	Posted - 2013.04.21 19:30:00 - [42] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: BlG MAMA wrote: CCP lied Dust514 is a P2W model as long as there is AURUM gear and weapons on the MARKET that are NOT skins. The reason why Dust514 is not on Xbox360 is because M$ most likely wanted a share from those AURUM revenues because we all know M$ are greedy and CCP is the same. Sure we got the game for "FREE" but i would rather pay 60$ for the game and have everyone separated by skill not by real $$$. Dust514 has no future and i am pissed off about it , i was hyped like hell the first time they announced the game. When CCP said game was "FREE" i couldnt belive it because i know all "FREE" games are P2W on PC and CCP is a PC developer , they are used to getting milk every month from EVE cows. Now CCP tries to milk us. Well they wont milking me. No utter? no cash cow for greedy "stars stars stars stars"... i give my milk only to those who deserves it
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2568	Posted - 2013.04.21 19:33:00 - [43] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: No udder? It's possible you mean "utter" as in "don't utter a word" or as in "total and utter insanity", but given the context, I'm going to assume you didn't. On that assumption, fixed. But going back on-topic, there have been items previously identified as being pay-to-win for various reasons - unique functions that make them directly superior, better fitting stats, etc. In most cases, such items have been removed from the market - though not always immediately.
DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 73	Posted - 2013.04.21 21:02:00 - [44] - Quote BlG MAMA wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: BlG MAMA wrote: CCP lied Dust514 is a P2W model as long as there is AURUM gear and weapons on the MARKET that are NOT skins. The reason why Dust514 is not on Xbox360 is because M$ most likely wanted a share from those AURUM revenues because we all know M$ are greedy and CCP is the same. Sure we got the game for "FREE" but i would rather pay 60$ for the game and have everyone separated by skill not by real $$$. Dust514 has no future and i am pissed off about it , i was hyped like hell the first time they announced the game. When CCP said game was "FREE" i couldnt belive it because i know all "FREE" games are P2W on PC and CCP is a PC developer , they are used to getting milk every month from EVE cows. Now CCP tries to milk us. Well they wont milking me. No utter? no cash cow for greedy "stars stars stars stars"... i give my milk only to those who deserves it +1 Made me laugh in real life... This is a difficult feat indeed. I usually only laught at pain
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 482	Posted - 2013.04.21 21:29:00 - [45] - Quote I can't take it anymore. Can we stop using "pay to win"? Isn't there something else to call it? I mean it's just starting to sound so stupid with the "pay to win tanks" and the "pay to win neo suit". Because they're not winning. That P2W tank is on fire and I just killed the P2W dropsuit with a militia AR.
Moonracer2000 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 431	Posted - 2013.04.21 21:30:00 - [46] - Quote If you are against such items on the market you can check out this request I made in the feedback section. This has been discussed a lot, but CCP has not given a response to the concerns many of us have with existing items on the market.
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD 369	Posted - 2013.04.21 21:43:00 - [47] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: I can't take it anymore. Can we stop using "pay to win"? Isn't there something else to call it? I mean it's just starting to sound so stupid with the "pay to win tanks" and the "pay to win neo suit". Because they're not winning. That P2W tank is on fire and I just killed the P2W dropsuit with a militia AR. I believe the most accurate term is supremacy goods. That is why I use it.
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 483	Posted - 2013.04.21 21:59:00 - [48] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Altina McAlterson wrote: I can't take it anymore. Can we stop using "pay to win"? Isn't there something else to call it? I mean it's just starting to sound so stupid with the "pay to win tanks" and the "pay to win neo suit". Because they're not winning. That P2W tank is on fire and I just killed the P2W dropsuit with a militia AR. I believe the most accurate term is supremacy goods. That is why I use it. Honestly even that seems a bit excessive. I get it that technically they are the "supreme" version but when you really get down to it the advantage is seriously not that great. To be perfectly honest people have no perspective at all and think anything stronger than them is completely unbeatable and isn't fair. General, the rest of this is directed at everyone so it's not a personal attack. So the other can use AUR items to fit a complex damage mod when you can only fit an advanced. He's doing 6% more damage than you. That's a winnable situation unless your only strategy is to stand there and shoot each other in the face until someone dies. Yes there is an advantage with these items and no I don't think they belong in the game but everybody seriously needs to stop acting like everybody else IS OVER 9000!!!!!!!! because they have AUR gear. It's hurting you as a player. When you die you need to run over every mistake you made in your head and improve your game instead of raging about the other guy's gear. That's why everybody is still so damn scrubby. I've listened to weeks and weeks of whining about broken damage mods when they weren't even broken. That means they got straight up outplayed and I bet they didn't learn jack from it. I called it "AUR grade" gear in another thread and I'm going with that.
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 2081	Posted - 2013.04.21 22:03:00 - [49] - Quote BlG MAMA wrote: Bad Bacon
Spacetits CDXX Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 212	Posted - 2013.04.21 22:14:00 - [50] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Altina McAlterson wrote: I can't take it anymore. Can we stop using "pay to win"? Isn't there something else to call it? I mean it's just starting to sound so stupid with the "pay to win tanks" and the "pay to win neo suit". Because they're not winning. That P2W tank is on fire and I just killed the P2W dropsuit with a militia AR. I believe the most accurate term is supremacy goods. That is why I use it. Honestly even that seems a bit excessive. I get it that technically they are the "supreme" version but when you really get down to it the advantage is seriously not that great. To be perfectly honest people have no perspective at all and think anything stronger than them is completely unbeatable and isn't fair. General, the rest of this is directed at everyone so it's not a personal attack. So the other can use AUR items to fit a complex damage mod when you can only fit an advanced. He's doing 6% more damage than you. That's a winnable situation unless your only strategy is to stand there and shoot each other in the face until someone dies. Yes there is an advantage with these items and no I don't think they belong in the game but everybody seriously needs to stop acting like everybody else IS OVER 9000!!!!!!!! because they have AUR gear. It's hurting you as a player. When you die you need to run over every mistake you made in your head and improve your game instead of raging about the other guy's gear. That's why everybody is still so damn scrubby. I've listened to weeks and weeks of whining about broken damage mods when they weren't even broken. That means they got straight up outplayed and I bet they didn't learn jack from it. I called it "AUR grade" gear in another thread and I'm going with that. This is a pretty good article on supremacy goods in general if you haven't read it. Actually, all of Ramin Shokrizade's papers on game economics are worth reading. He was also one of the people who helped with the initial launch of the EVE economy... Anyway, here's the pull quote: "A supremacy good is a good or service that reduces the value of all other linked goods and services in its space, including itself." (Read the article for his full reasoning on this.) Isn't this what you just argued that the current set of top-tier/proto-tier AUR goods were going to become? That is why I would argue that the term 'supremacy goods' is accurate for those items.

DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 76	Posted - 2013.04.22 10:08:00 - [51] - Quote As long as the AUR market expands out of skill based items, we should be alright.
Don Von Hulio Not Guilty EoN. 146	Posted - 2013.04.22 10:28:00 - [52] - Quote The proto level AUR weapons also perform better than their SP earned counterparts as well. You have to understand, DUST isnt there only game... they get money from PLEX and subscriptions on EvE side. I dont believe CCP is hurting for money, if they were they wouldnt be risking a chunk on DUST. They do it so the people who use their AU to buy these items can feel its justifiable purchase. Just having it be available at an earlier level isnt enough, the stats must be better, you are paying real money for something that doesnt exist... and the only way to not have this issue is to not offer those items in the first place.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 108	Posted - 2013.04.22 10:37:00 - [53] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Has anyone been playing around DFT and seeing how much CPU is left over on a maxi fit? With and without the AUR fit reduction items? It can make quite a bit of difference, but not huge. Looks like it will let you get an extra damage mod without losing anything other than one shield extender when using proto weapons on an advanced suit. Marginal advantage but this would honestly get most players killed even faster if they don't adjust their play for it. My main concern is the economic impact of these kinds of modules, but that's a conversation for another thread. If NPC corps buy materials from pilots and then manufacture aur items to sell to dust mercs would this fix the economy problem? I like the aur items, I don't use aur modules but I like them being there because they let other people pay for my game. If there is a mechanism in place to use resources produced by dust or eve then I don't care but if they are made from nothing then I do care.


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