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Meklor Gartel The Legendary Mercenaries 0	Posted - 2013.04.20 18:37:00 - [1] - Quote Yet actions show otherwise... The Aurumn damage modifiers take less CPU and pg than complex isk counterparts... The tether shield regulator takes less CPU pg than complex shield regulators... Why are they putting aurumn items in that are better than any isk item...
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 937	Posted - 2013.04.20 18:39:00 - [2] - Quote They intend to fix that, did this really require another thread? Use this next time https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=search
DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 65	Posted - 2013.04.20 18:39:00 - [3] - Quote So people will by them and not just work up to their free counterparts
Geth Massredux Defensores Doctrina 158	Posted - 2013.04.20 18:40:00 - [4] - Quote So if its P2W so what... It is what it is...
WyrmHero1945 Commando Perkone Caldari State 121	Posted - 2013.04.20 18:40:00 - [5] - Quote Having less CPU/PG is not significantly better and is not p2w. Now p2w would be if you could only buy complex mods with AUR.
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 2061	Posted - 2013.04.20 18:45:00 - [6] - Quote They will get fixed.
Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 61	Posted - 2013.04.20 19:00:00 - [7] - Quote Here http://www.reddit.com/r/dust514/comments/1ckz34/dust_514_developer_ama/c9him6w Now go in peace.
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD 350	Posted - 2013.04.20 19:03:00 - [8] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: So people will by them and not just work up to their free counterparts The worst of the supremacy goods require level 5 skills. That is why most people can't appreciate the impact these items can have.
Meklor Gartel The Legendary Mercenaries 0	Posted - 2013.04.20 19:08:00 - [9] - Quote WyrmHero1945 wrote: Having less CPU/PG is not significantly better and is not p2w. Now p2w would be if you could only buy complex mods with AUR. CPU and pg are big when fitting protocol builds and can be the difference in a lot
DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 65	Posted - 2013.04.20 19:19:00 - [10] - Quote CCP has to get money somehow, giving players an advantage in exchange for money makes sense, at least from CCP's standpoint. It may drive away casual players but chances are that players that stick with the game will spend a lot more then any casual players would.

SherIock Holmes Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.04.20 19:42:00 - [11] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: CCP has to get money somehow, giving players an advantage in exchange for money makes sense, at least from CCP's standpoint. It may drive away casual players but chances are that players that stick with the game will spend a lot more then any casual players would. P2W games are hated and any game is marked as p2w everyone avoids it. There are other ways to get money, cosmetics are the best example...
DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 65	Posted - 2013.04.20 20:42:00 - [12] - Quote SherIock Holmes wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: CCP has to get money somehow, giving players an advantage in exchange for money makes sense, at least from CCP's standpoint. It may drive away casual players but chances are that players that stick with the game will spend a lot more then any casual players would. P2W games are hated and any game is marked as p2w everyone avoids it. There are other ways to get money, cosmetics are the best example... Agreed. Personally, I do not want to buy things that improve my performance; I want to buy things that are cosmetic. Sad CCP did not go this route.
XxWarlordxX97 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1490	Posted - 2013.04.20 20:44:00 - [13] - Quote WyrmHero1945 wrote: Having less CPU/PG is not significantly better and is not p2w. Now p2w would be if you could only buy complex mods with AUR. do I know you?
Chances Ghost Inf4m0us 42	Posted - 2013.04.20 20:50:00 - [14] - Quote its been known for months, its been known its being fixed for months, but some idiot always brings it up every few days kicking and screaming about it. STOP
Knight SoIaire Better Hide R Die 193	Posted - 2013.04.20 21:02:00 - [15] - Quote Not really P2W, I haven't invested ANY money into Dust, thats right, nothing Waiting for full release, I dont do amazing in some games, but thats because I'm not actually amazing Nothing to do with the gear I carry. The only thing I dont agree with, are AUR Proto suits, and AUR tanks (Supposedly) having more PG and CPU than their ISK variants.
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 476	Posted - 2013.04.20 21:18:00 - [16] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: They intend to fix that, did this really require another thread? Use this next time https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=search Maken Tosch wrote: They will get fixed. Chances Ghost wrote: its been known for months, its been known its being fixed for months, but some idiot always brings it up every few days kicking and screaming about it. STOP This is pretty much what I've posted at least 50 times recently. And I felt completely correct in saying it until yesterday (maybe day before) when they added a new light damage modifier that's just like those two I said were "mistakes". I have no idea where CCP is going with this now.
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 2065	Posted - 2013.04.20 21:33:00 - [17] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: CCP has to get money somehow, giving players an advantage in exchange for money makes sense, at least from CCP's standpoint. It may drive away casual players but chances are that players that stick with the game will spend a lot more then any casual players would. 1. You are correct. CCP has to make money somehow. 2. P2W is not what CCP wants to see in Dust as P2W carries a certain stigma that many games want to avoid at all costs. 3. Cosmetics are a great alternative to P2W as there will always be players wanting to show off their suits to the enemy they are killing. It's just part of human nature to look as awesome and terrifying as possible. Native Americans use to wear war paint to intimidate their enemies. It didn't give them supernatural powers, but it created a level of fear on the enemy that they were hoping for. When King Xerxes of the Persian Empire mobilized his troops, he had an elite group of warriors called "The Immortals" who covered their faces with a thin veil and were trained to stay silent. Their purpose was to make the enemy think they are unstoppable. Unfortunately for the Persians, the Spartans called their bluff... the hard way. The Spartans wore armor that, in a way, made then look like one solid wall of metallic troops. My point is that it doesn't matter how weak a weapon really is. If the enemy can scare you, that weak weapon will look terrifying. Apparently, I'm seeing a similar effect in Dust with my Nova Knives.
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 2065	Posted - 2013.04.20 21:36:00 - [18] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: This is pretty much what I've posted at least 50 times recently. And I felt completely correct in saying it until yesterday (maybe day before) when they added a new light damage modifier that's just like those two I said were "mistakes". I have no idea where CCP is going with this now. [email protected] Also Feedback Section of the Forums The above will give you a chance to constantly report P2W items to CCP until the cows come home.
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 476	Posted - 2013.04.20 21:41:00 - [19] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Altina McAlterson wrote: This is pretty much what I've posted at least 50 times recently. And I felt completely correct in saying it until yesterday (maybe day before) when they added a new light damage modifier that's just like those two I said were "mistakes". I have no idea where CCP is going with this now. [email protected] Also Feedback Section of the Forums The above will give you a chance to constantly report P2W items to CCP until the cows come home. I remember when the suits use to be P2W until CCP fixed them. It's just a matter of what's priority at the moment. Not really sure you read the same words that I typed. I don't feel the need to report it since someone at CCP took the time to add it to the game yesterday so I'm sure they are already aware of it.
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 2065	Posted - 2013.04.20 21:45:00 - [20] - Quote @Altina It's better to just keep pushing the issue so that CCP can be reminded about their promise of no P2W. If you don't feel like reporting it, then that's ok.

Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3590	Posted - 2013.04.20 21:45:00 - [21] - Quote Has anyone been playing around DFT and seeing how much CPU is left over on a maxi fit? With and without the AUR fit reduction items?
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 476	Posted - 2013.04.20 21:53:00 - [22] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: @Altina It's better to just keep pushing the issue so that CCP can be reminded about their promise of no P2W. If you don't feel like reporting it, then that's ok. Oh, I see what you did there. Mouthing off like a jackass is sort of reflex reaction now for me and I often forget a few other intelligent people frequent the forums from time to time. Same page now.
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 476	Posted - 2013.04.20 21:56:00 - [23] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Has anyone been playing around DFT and seeing how much CPU is left over on a maxi fit? With and without the AUR fit reduction items? It can make quite a bit of difference, but not huge. Looks like it will let you get an extra damage mod without losing anything other than one shield extender when using proto weapons on an advanced suit. Marginal advantage but this would honestly get most players killed even faster if they don't adjust their play for it. My main concern is the economic impact of these kinds of modules, but that's a conversation for another thread.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3590	Posted - 2013.04.20 22:09:00 - [24] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Has anyone been playing around DFT and seeing how much CPU is left over on a maxi fit? With and without the AUR fit reduction items? It can make quite a bit of difference, but not huge. Looks like it will let you get an extra damage mod without losing anything other than one shield extender when using proto weapons on an advanced suit. Marginal advantage but this would honestly get most players killed even faster if they don't adjust their play for it. My main concern is the economic impact of these kinds of modules, but that's a conversation for another thread. If dust 514 shifts in the direction where i think it will for manufacturing these will continue to be treated as 'blueprints' where everything is truely built on demand thus majority of the research would be in creating copies (which could require materials to copy) and making copies cheaper to produce. Then on dust 514 we would have to bring mass into the battle to build the guns. It can also be shifted that in order to get an aurum based items you have ot buy the base item to manufacture it, there are various solutions that can prevent 'injection' of materials into dust 514 / eve online.
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 2065	Posted - 2013.04.20 22:13:00 - [25] - Quote Talking about the economic impact on these items is a very complex subject especially when you have to consider the dynamics that come with an economy that is based on the basic laws of supply and demand. Like you said, Altina, that is an entirely different thread. I think I might create one to continue that discussion.
Patoman Radiant ZionTCD 64	Posted - 2013.04.20 22:18:00 - [26] - Quote WyrmHero1945 wrote: Having less CPU/PG is not significantly better and is not p2w. Now p2w would be if you could only buy complex mods with AUR. That can make or break some suits, I use double complex damage mods on some of my fits, and I need a CPU mod in order to fit all of them and everything else
Draxus Prime BurgezzE.T.F Orion Empire 79	Posted - 2013.04.20 22:24:00 - [27] - Quote i havent spent a penny and ive been in the beta for a year yet i can kill every1 who walk into my crosshairs
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3590	Posted - 2013.04.20 22:30:00 - [28] - Quote Well lower fittings can be an issue. It could lead to a full -proto suit being possible vs impossible.
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 476	Posted - 2013.04.20 22:32:00 - [29] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: If dust 514 shifts in the direction where i think it will for manufacturing these will continue to be treated as 'blueprints' where everything is truely built on demand thus majority of the research would be in creating copies (which could require materials to copy) and making copies cheaper to produce. Then on dust 514 we would have to bring mass into the battle to build the guns. It can also be shifted that in order to get an aurum based items you have ot buy the base item to manufacture it, there are various solutions that can prevent 'injection' of materials into dust 514 / eve online. AUR prices will have to be set by CCP, so there's no way a system for players to manufacture them will work. They'll be created by the game at the time of purchase and that is my problem with them and why I think this would have a serious impact on the economy. But that's for Tosch's thread.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3590	Posted - 2013.04.20 22:53:00 - [30] - Quote I am saying that if a player provides a base item that get modified by the 'virus' you bought to reduce its skills or fitting requirements it would leave the base item in the hands of the original manufacturer to still be involved in eve nomics while still letting ccp sell the 'viruses' to make money. I mean look at the possible paint bucket option. you still need to buy the base item paint it.



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