DUST Search - [Suggestion] Corporation shares and stock market

slypie11 wrote:

Cat Merc wrote:

slypie11 wrote:

Cat Merc wrote:

slypie11 wrote:

No. The CEO will continue to be the CEO until a certain number of shareholders vote otherwise. There would have to be 25 votes to kick the CEO out. 1% of the company would equal one vote.

And why is that way better?
They're both valid.

The way you stated it, it sounded as if one person could just vote the CEO out. As if someone who bought 0.1% of the company could now do whatever he wanted with the leadership.

If the shareholders want their investment to die they can pick a nobody.
They own you if you go to the stock market, they can do whatever.

On the contrary, a shareholder does not own the corp, only a small percentage, unless they buy many, many shares. Depending on how many shares there are on the market, and how much the corp is giving in terms of company ownership, one share could equal as little as 0.001% of the company. This means that someone with one share would have a very small in how the company is run, almost nothing. So some newberry who decides to buy one stock shouldn't be able to wreck an entire corp

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Cat Merc BetaMax. CRONOS. 520	Posted - 2013.04.20 14:31:00 - [1] - Quote A few notes: 1.The share system exists in EVE, though underdeveloped, there isn't even a stock market. 2.This thread was made to make a more detailed counterpart to the thread here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=703798#post703798 Lets start then A corp for sale: After you have created a corp, you can put your corp on the stock market. (More on that later) You will need to specify how much money you need, and how many shares will be available. Then the game calculates the price of each share by simply doing (Money needed) / (Shares amount) = [ndividual share prices] So lets say I set the amount of money needed to 150,000,000,000, and I make 150,000 shares, each share will cost 1,000,000 ISK. (These are only initial prices, after it goes on the market stuff can go wild) After you click accept, your corp will be put on the stock market, and your corp name will be shown along with the price of a single share (calculated by the average, more on that later). You may also become a privately held corp, where only a select few people are allowed to buy and sell shares between each other. The stock market: This is where all the trading happens. It will have three tabs: 1.Is where new shares that are still owned by the company will be bought. 2.Is where shares that are sold by players will be sold. 3.Is where shares that people want to buy from a specific company will be. This is very much like the EVE market, where prices are set by the players and other players have to buy it. Or players say they want to buy "X" thing at "Y" price and then another player sells them that item for that price. etc' You will also be able to filter by price, corporation and alliance. (The alliance option will show all corporations within that alliance) Instead of showing every share on sale individually, the market will show corporation names, to the left there will be how many shares are on sale and to the left of that will be the average current price of a share. The differences between a corp on the stock market and one that isn't: When you go on the stock market, a few things change. First of all, the founder of the corp is no longer the CEO/can't pick a CEO. He also can't pick directors. What will happen is this: The investors will monthly pick a CEO and 4-12 directors. The people who they pick can be both from the corporation and out of it. The directors can even be from a different corporation, as well as the CEO. The voting screen will allow you to search for a name and vote for that name, and the people who are currently leading the votes will be shown on another tab. That means if you are not careful, an enemy corp can buy 51%+ of your shares and practically own you. The directors and CEO's will NOT be able to disband the corp, but they can still do everything else. Also, the weight of each vote is different. If a person owns 50% of the shares, his vote will have the same weight as 50 people that each have 1% of the share. How will shareholders profit from it? A corp may either pay monthly dividends and each shareholder will get an amount corresponding to the percentage of shares he owns (If you decide to pay 1,000,000, the one who owns 50% of the shares will get 500,00 ISK, etc'), or shareholders may buy low and sell high like people are already doing with items in EVE Online. How will the corp investors know how much the corp is worth? Each month, corp statistics will be updated and in those statistics will be shown: Current CEO The directors of the corp Total ISK in all of wallets. (Each wallet is shown separately, and at the top of all the wallets is where you will find the total) Income sources (Tax, Planetary Interaction, Donations etc') Percentage of increase in the amount of money earned/spent from last month And finally notes that the CEO writes, and then smaller notes that each director writes. THIS INFORMATION WILL BE PUBLIC, EVERYONE WILL BE ABLE TO SEE IT Also, shareholders who have 10% of the corp shares can view statistics each week instead of each month. Can my corp go out of the stock market? The option will only be available once 100% of all the shares are owned by the founder of the corp. Once he has all of the shares, he can change the corp back to a normal corp. P.S If I didn't mention something you want to know, you are more than welcome to ask, I will add it to the post.
Cat Merc BetaMax. CRONOS. 520	Posted - 2013.04.20 14:33:00 - [2] - Quote Reserved in case I need more space.
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 409	Posted - 2013.04.20 14:39:00 - [3] - Quote EVE Devs take note! I've long wanted a Share Market for EVE... don't let DUST beat you to it! +1
Cat Merc BetaMax. CRONOS. 521	Posted - 2013.04.20 15:10:00 - [4] - Quote The Black Jackal wrote: EVE Devs take note! I've long wanted a Share Market for EVE... don't let DUST beat you to it! +1 If Dust will get it EVE will get it. They're connected, so it will need to have both.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 165	Posted - 2013.04.20 18:33:00 - [5] - Quote No. The CEO will continue to be the CEO until a certain number of shareholders vote otherwise. There would have to be 25 votes to kick the CEO out. 1% of the company would equal one vote.
Cat Merc BetaMax. CRONOS. 523	Posted - 2013.04.20 19:15:00 - [6] - Quote slypie11 wrote: No. The CEO will continue to be the CEO until a certain number of shareholders vote otherwise. There would have to be 25 votes to kick the CEO out. 1% of the company would equal one vote. And why is that way better? They're both valid.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 165	Posted - 2013.04.20 19:17:00 - [7] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: slypie11 wrote: No. The CEO will continue to be the CEO until a certain number of shareholders vote otherwise. There would have to be 25 votes to kick the CEO out. 1% of the company would equal one vote. And why is that way better? They're both valid. The way you stated it, it sounded as if one person could just vote the CEO out. As if someone who bought 0.1% of the company could now do whatever he wanted with the leadership.
Cat Merc BetaMax. CRONOS. 528	Posted - 2013.04.20 19:34:00 - [8] - Quote slypie11 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: slypie11 wrote: No. The CEO will continue to be the CEO until a certain number of shareholders vote otherwise. There would have to be 25 votes to kick the CEO out. 1% of the company would equal one vote. And why is that way better? They're both valid. The way you stated it, it sounded as if one person could just vote the CEO out. As if someone who bought 0.1% of the company could now do whatever he wanted with the leadership. If the shareholders want their investment to die they can pick a nobody. They own you if you go to the stock market, they can do whatever.
Jedah McClintock McClintock's Mercs 12	Posted - 2013.04.20 19:55:00 - [9] - Quote A stock market would give smaller corps and freelancers to participate more in the economy by investing in corporations with the manpower and presumably resources to get into the bigger money making opportunities. Further, a corporation is about investors, creating share holder equity, and stock manipulation... it only seems appropriate in this Dust/EVE universe to have a functional stock market.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 165	Posted - 2013.04.20 20:16:00 - [10] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: slypie11 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: slypie11 wrote: No. The CEO will continue to be the CEO until a certain number of shareholders vote otherwise. There would have to be 25 votes to kick the CEO out. 1% of the company would equal one vote. And why is that way better? They're both valid. The way you stated it, it sounded as if one person could just vote the CEO out. As if someone who bought 0.1% of the company could now do whatever he wanted with the leadership. If the shareholders want their investment to die they can pick a nobody. They own you if you go to the stock market, they can do whatever. On the contrary, a shareholder does not own the corp, only a small percentage, unless they buy many, many shares. Depending on how many shares there are on the market, and how much the corp is giving in terms of company ownership, one share could equal as little as 0.001% of the company. This means that someone with one share would have a very small in how the company is run, almost nothing. So some newberry who decides to buy one stock shouldn't be able to wreck an entire corp

Cat Merc BetaMax. CRONOS. 536	Posted - 2013.04.20 21:44:00 - [11] - Quote slypie11 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: slypie11 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: slypie11 wrote: No. The CEO will continue to be the CEO until a certain number of shareholders vote otherwise. There would have to be 25 votes to kick the CEO out. 1% of the company would equal one vote. And why is that way better? They're both valid. The way you stated it, it sounded as if one person could just vote the CEO out. As if someone who bought 0.1% of the company could now do whatever he wanted with the leadership. If the shareholders want their investment to die they can pick a nobody. They own you if you go to the stock market, they can do whatever. On the contrary, a shareholder does not own the corp, only a small percentage, unless they buy many, many shares. Depending on how many shares there are on the market, and how much the corp is giving in terms of company ownership, one share could equal as little as 0.001% of the company. This means that someone with one share would have a very small in how the company is run, almost nothing. So some newberry who decides to buy one stock shouldn't be able to wreck an entire corp If you have 0.001% and the CEO is demoted, the CEO is doing it wrong. Really, really, wrong.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 166	Posted - 2013.04.20 22:03:00 - [12] - Quote slypie11 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: slypie11 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: slypie11 wrote: No. The CEO will continue to be the CEO until a certain number of shareholders vote otherwise. There would have to be 25 votes to kick the CEO out. 1% of the company would equal one vote. And why is that way better? They're both valid. The way you stated it, it sounded as if one person could just vote the CEO out. As if someone who bought 0.1% of the company could now do whatever he wanted with the leadership. If the shareholders want their investment to die they can pick a nobody. They own you if you go to the stock market, they can do whatever. On the contrary, a shareholder does not own the corp, only a small percentage, unless they buy many, many shares. Depending on how many shares there are on the market, and how much the corp is giving in terms of company ownership, one share could equal as little as 0.001% of the company. This means that someone with one share would have a very small in how the company is run, almost nothing. So some newberry who decides to buy one stock shouldn't be able to wreck an entire corp exactly. The CEO should be doing something very wrong in order for him to be demoted, unless another corp is issuing a hostile takeover.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 24	Posted - 2013.04.21 00:00:00 - [13] - Quote Thank you for having mentioned my post, my idea was simplistic. I was thinking on a investment fund on a NPC corporation, but i like your post, it sounds like a game in game. The only thing i don't agree is the part on the CEO and directors, too much power in the hand of unknown people, they can decide to kick out a lot of gamers out of a corp or steal the Isk of the corporation.
Cat Merc BetaMax. CRONOS. 540	Posted - 2013.04.21 03:44:00 - [14] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Thank you for having mentioned my post, my idea was simplistic. I was thinking on a investment fund on a NPC corporation, but i like your post, it sounds like a game in game. The only thing i don't agree is the part on the CEO and directors, too much power in the hand of unknown people, they can decide to kick out a lot of gamers out of a corp or steal the Isk of the corporation. That's the risk of raising funds. If you do it wrong, your corp is screwed.
Cat Merc BetaMax. CRONOS. 540	Posted - 2013.04.21 10:43:00 - [15] - Quote Updated thread.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2567	Posted - 2013.04.21 12:48:00 - [16] - Quote This would require careful designing to avoid breaking the systems already in place, and it would probably collapse under the weight of its own complexity in DUST. Any competent and intelligent CEO would ensure that they retain at least a 50% share in the Corp between their character and any alts. Also, you'd need to have some way of establishing rules for voting - what percentage is needed to make/overturn a decision? Who does the CEO answer to? Will Corp members be automatically issued with shares? If so, how many?
Tarken Genetic BetaMax. CRONOS. 1	Posted - 2013.04.21 18:37:00 - [17] - Quote of course there should be rules for voting, haven't given much thought to those things, but they need to be there of course. The CEO Answers to the directors. And corporation members will not automatically issued with shares. But I do see a scenario of giving the corporation members the option to buy shares at fixed price no matter how the corporation fares in stock market value or new value of issued shares. This option should only be available to long term employed members of the corporation though, and it is always up to the discretion of the CEO if such a thing should be issued as payment. You can't have a stock market that is actually worth something without having complexity, which is why the shares in EVE as they are now, might as well not exist. They have no real use in EVE as it stands right now, which is kind of a shame. I think they had grand ideas, but didn't implement them for a multitude of reasons, and now they are afraid it will break their systems, which is why a second system, such as this, complementing the old system by building new rules could be done. The old system is still there, but build another system, that has nothing to do with the old one. It could be seen as a transistion away from the old systems, and once it is sound and working and have been thoroughly tested by the players, you could do away with the old system all together, and just have open stock market corporations and privately held ones. I see this as a must in the future of EVE/Dust, it has long been missed by me. It would give being a CEO value as well as a director, and if you do good, you might be headhunted to another corp with better payment for your services.


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