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fred orpaul
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
222
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Posted - 2013.04.15 11:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm sorry all this has been discussed to death I know, but I would like clarification from CCP on how to formally and legally acknowledge that the decision to buy merc/aurum packs was made with the understanding that. 1) I was helping to fund a game in development and 2) I don't hold CCP responsible to any refund unless CCP removes the items and/or benefits gained from those items in the merc/aurum packs from my account.
While I welcome any one who would like to receive this information to post here as well, I ask those who disagree to please not turn this into another pointless flame war. |
JL3Eleven
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
314
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 12:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
fred orpaul wrote:I'm sorry all this has been discussed to death I know, but I would like clarification from CCP on how to formally and legally acknowledge that the decision to buy merc/aurum packs was made with the understanding that. 1) I was helping to fund a game in development and 2) I don't hold CCP responsible to any refund unless CCP removes the items and/or benefits gained from those items in the merc/aurum packs from my account.
While I welcome any one who would like to receive this information to post here as well, I ask those who disagree to please not turn this into another pointless flame war.
Not trolling. Just serious questions.
1) Are you stating you are OK with not getting everything you paid for?
2) Would you feel the same if a dust trading corp carried themselves this same way?
3) Would you repeat business with said dust trading corp? |
fred orpaul
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
223
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 12:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
heh as to the last two remind me never to trade with you with out checking the fine print. and to the last one IMO I HAVE gotten every thing I paid for from my purchases, I have reaped the benefits of the items I have bought and unless as stated above those benefits are removed I consider CCPs obligations to me in those regards complete. To get those items back with out a server reset would be double dipping on money I spent and equally unfair to new players as to CCP.
I refuse to do business with companies that do not live up to my standards for business practices and customer service, but I will not fight a company for the sake of preserving some extreme sense of customer rights. If you feel mislead by all means go for it, but I understood that what I bought would not be taken away from me, and understand the wording to be an artifact of a rapidly changing development process, and as such do not hold them to the letter of the contract but to its spirit. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
216
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Posted - 2013.04.15 12:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
I have everything i paid for
I have over 8.5mil of SP from the items i paid for
I am happy
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Yagihige
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
208
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Posted - 2013.04.15 12:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
JL3Eleven wrote: 1) Are you stating you are OK with not getting everything you paid for?
This is the most bull **** argument in this stupid thing.
As long as there is no SP, ISK and stock reset, you DEFINITELY got what you paid for.
CCP, get these people what they want. A FULL reset. Start from 0. **** these whining kittens. |
fred orpaul
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
224
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 12:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yagihige wrote:JL3Eleven wrote: 1) Are you stating you are OK with not getting everything you paid for?
This is the most bull **** argument in this stupid thing. As long as there is no SP, ISK and stock reset, you DEFINITELY got what you paid for. CCP, get these people what they want. A FULL reset. Start from 0. **** these whining kittens.
Please try to keep this civil says the forum troll, not that I disagree. |
Yagihige
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
208
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 12:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
I would keep it civil but these people have annoyed me past my limit. |
JL3Eleven
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
314
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 12:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
fred orpaul wrote:Yagihige wrote:JL3Eleven wrote: 1) Are you stating you are OK with not getting everything you paid for?
This is the most bull **** argument in this stupid thing. As long as there is no SP, ISK and stock reset, you DEFINITELY got what you paid for. CCP, get these people what they want. A FULL reset. Start from 0. **** these whining kittens. Please try to keep this civil says the forum troll, not that I disagree.
Yes please do keep it civil.
@Fred thanks for your responses. I understand your position. My views differ clearly but that's cool. I'm just wondering if this was for example a dust trading corp. would everyone raise holy hell or say meh. I guess it's about the principle for me not the ISK/Aurum/$. All a person has is their word and once that's gone you got nadda. Continue with your thread I will disappear. Later. |
fred orpaul
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
224
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 12:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
I guess it a bit like the legends of getting wishes from mischievous creatures, the devil is in the details. I leave it up to you to determine who is the wisher and who is the granter, as I found my wish fulfilled I assume you can figure my point of view on the mater. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
54
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Posted - 2013.04.15 12:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
I feel that I have received everything I paid for as well. And yes, I did buy a merc pack whilst that accursed piece of text was still there. |
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BASSMEANT
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
194
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Posted - 2013.04.15 13:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
"any of the music labels in the RIAA"
boy you nerds never stop trying to make excuses for that one.
hey, man:
i'm gonna come to your dads car dealership. i'm gonna buy a car from him.
but i'm not gonna pay for it. but i still get it, cuz i want it.
the reason i'm not paying is because... i dunno gas prices. or the car companies charge too much. whatever. i'm not paying. but i'm keeping the car.
good luck with christmas this year. all of us who bought cars from your dad never paid for em.
oh wait, dad is outta business and you're getting evicted.
see how that works?
you claim you don't support the RIAA labels.
so you have NEVER downloaded a single song illegally? you're the only one on the web?
Peace B |
fred orpaul
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
224
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Posted - 2013.04.15 14:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
why thank you for wasting every ones time trolling, and thanks you for giving me a reason to bump my post. That said my issues are with the RIAAs businesses practices, I'm not squbleing over to file share or not and no I don't download music that I haven't paid for, and no none of that music comes from the RIAA labels, because they put out **** all worth while, and what little they do put out thats worth while I simply have no interest in getting at the cost of supporting them, and yes file sharing is supporting them, as it gets their music out to other people, who might just like it enough to buy it. Hell even HBO has said that they look at the rampant piracy of Game of Thrones as a good thing as the discussion of their show only feeds into more people watching it and therefore more people paying for HBO in general. also I should note a company I support AND pay for.
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Ivan Avogadro
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
68
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Posted - 2013.04.15 14:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Here is my 2 cents, for what it's worth.
I paid $20 for: a 30 day Active Booster, 40k AUR, a pile of vanity shotguns, and a Dragonfly Scout BPO.
I received: a 30 day Active Booster, 40k AUR, a pile of vanity shotguns, and a Dragonfly Scout BPO.
I used the AUR to buy Passive Boosters. I used the Active and Passive boosters to generate SP.
When May 6th comes, as long as CCP doesn't remove the SP that my boosters provided, we are square. Any sort of refund, in addition to keeping the SP that I essentially bought, would be a free gift to which I am not entitled. I got my $20 worth, and it was already a good deal to start out. |
Maken Tosch
OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT
1988
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 14:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
@fred orpaul
If you don't want your refund, that's ok. It's up to you. Honestly I don't mind not receiving any refund at all either just like you. However, one consumer has no right to deprive others of what they paid for just because they don't want a refund. That said, CCP still technically has an obligation to meet for those who bought merc packs from the PSN prior to open beta and for those still buying merc pack from Gamestop which for some reason still has the "commercial release" clause on the description.
I sent an email to [email protected] letting them know about Gamestop not updating their description and CCP told me they are trying to address it. Since I'm not allowed to post a copy of the email as per forum rules, you only have my word on this. |
fred orpaul
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
224
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 14:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
@Maken
As I said above if they really feel cheated by CCP by all mean pursue it, but you have to admit this by and large feels like people abusing a technicality for their own ends, or to stick it to the man, and it frustrated me enough to want to show CCP support and provide them a way to allow those of us who don't want the refund to say we don't want it if there is any grounds for the complaints.
hopefully CCP can get that rectified quickly, good looking out. |
Maken Tosch
OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT
1991
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 14:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
fred orpaul wrote:@Maken
As I said above if they really feel cheated by CCP by all mean pursue it, but you have to admit this by and large feels like people abusing a technicality for their own ends, and it frustrated me enough to want to show CCP support and provide them a way to allow those of us who don't want the refund to say we don't want it IF there is any grounds for the complaints.
hopefully CCP can get that rectified quickly, good looking out.
It doesn't matter what I feel about this. Technically those people have a right as paying customers to get what they paid for. At least for the purchases that had the "commercial release" clause at the time of purchase.
Rumors are circulating that CCP is already developing a system to determine which players get the refund based on when the purchases were made on the PSN. But like I said that is just rumor and the only evidence to that rumor is some player's blog on a petition he filed with CCP.
At this point, this whole discussion about it is pointless and so this means that all we have to do (as if we haven't done so already) is wait for CCP to post an official statement on this issue. |
Tiel Syysch
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
692
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 14:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
fred orpaul wrote: I refuse to do business with companies that do not live up to my standards for business practices and customer service
So is CCP's refusal/inability to give the customers asking for clarification on this matter (3 months now) living up to your standards for business practices and customer service? That's the aspect many of us are pursuing this for, not the items, but rather to have the company treat us with respect as paying customers. |
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
16
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Posted - 2013.04.15 14:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
fred orpaul wrote:I'm sorry all this has been discussed to death I know, but I would like clarification from CCP on how to formally and legally acknowledge that the decision to buy merc/aurum packs was made with the understanding that. 1) I was helping to fund a game in development and 2) I don't hold CCP responsible to any refund unless CCP removes the items and/or benefits gained from those items in the merc/aurum packs from my account.
While I welcome any one who would like to receive this information to post here as well, I ask those who disagree to please not turn this into another pointless flame war.
i'm not sure anybody read that last statement. |
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
16
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 14:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
JL3Eleven wrote:fred orpaul wrote:I'm sorry all this has been discussed to death I know, but I would like clarification from CCP on how to formally and legally acknowledge that the decision to buy merc/aurum packs was made with the understanding that. 1) I was helping to fund a game in development and 2) I don't hold CCP responsible to any refund unless CCP removes the items and/or benefits gained from those items in the merc/aurum packs from my account.
While I welcome any one who would like to receive this information to post here as well, I ask those who disagree to please not turn this into another pointless flame war. Not trolling. Just serious questions. 1) Are you stating you are OK with not getting everything you paid for? 2) Would you feel the same if a dust trading corp carried themselves this same way? 3) Would you repeat business with said dust trading corp? Edit: I know we cannot trade now I'm talking about in the future.
QQ |
JL3Eleven
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
314
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 15:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
fred orpaul wrote:@Maken
As I said above if they really feel cheated by CCP by all mean pursue it, but you have to admit this by and large feels like people abusing a technicality for their own ends, or to stick it to the man, and it frustrated me enough to want to show CCP support and provide them a way to allow those of us who don't want the refund to say we don't want it if there is any grounds for the complaints.
hopefully CCP can get that rectified quickly, good looking out.
How are you abusing a technicality that CCP knew would happen? The only problem that happened is that the game didn't go to full release because they realized it was not ready and needed more time. But once it goes full commercial like they intended in Jan. we are to receive a refund if you like it or not. That's according to what CCP told people who bought it. It's the principal of it all, if you made a mistake admit it, take it on the chin, it will pay off ten fold in the end. Just my thoughts though. Carry onn. |
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Sylvana Nightwind
Expert Intervention Caldari State
245
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 15:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ivan Avogadro wrote:When May 6th comes, as long as CCP doesn't remove the SP that my boosters provided, we are square. Any sort of refund, in addition to keeping the SP that I essentially bought, would be a free gift to which I am not entitled. I got my $20 worth, and it was already a good deal to start out. +1. /thread
Please stop making these kind of threads and bring them to customer support and sony. Bye. |
JL3Eleven
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
314
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 15:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
low genius wrote:JL3Eleven wrote:fred orpaul wrote:I'm sorry all this has been discussed to death I know, but I would like clarification from CCP on how to formally and legally acknowledge that the decision to buy merc/aurum packs was made with the understanding that. 1) I was helping to fund a game in development and 2) I don't hold CCP responsible to any refund unless CCP removes the items and/or benefits gained from those items in the merc/aurum packs from my account.
While I welcome any one who would like to receive this information to post here as well, I ask those who disagree to please not turn this into another pointless flame war. Not trolling. Just serious questions. 1) Are you stating you are OK with not getting everything you paid for? 2) Would you feel the same if a dust trading corp carried themselves this same way? 3) Would you repeat business with said dust trading corp? Edit: I know we cannot trade now I'm talking about in the future. QQ
Best you could come up with? |
Illuminaughty-696
Omega Risk Control Services
240
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 15:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
To all the people saying we got what we paid for, if you feel you have, great! However, CCP included in the purchase agreement that the items and AUR would be refunded every reset AND on commercial release. I have benefited from much of the value of the packs I purchased, but I spent a lot of it frivolously because CCP said it would be refunded on commercial release as well.
All the QQ'ers who didn't want to have to earn their SP again got what they wanted and now there won't be a SP reset on commercial release (my preference by far - it resolves everything). Still, I'm fine without a SP reset. But money has changed hands, under a very specifically and clearly worded agreement. and there will be a refund of AURUM or CCP is no better than EA, who I , as the OP, have boycotted long ago.
This would be like buying something where you were told you could use it 5 times, then having it break on the fourth time but deciding you got enough out of it that you didn't feel you were owed that fifth time. Not a perfect analogy, I realize, but meh. |
Plastic-Jesus
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 15:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
To me it sounded like they meant for there to be a reset at release and you would get a refund. But since there will be no reset on commercial release now, you are not entitled to a refund. I don't care either way, I got what I payed for. |
Maken Tosch
OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT
1992
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 15:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
Plastic-Jesus wrote:To me it sounded like they meant for there to be a reset at release and you would get a refund. But since there will be no reset on commercial release now, you are not entitled to a refund. I don't care either way, I got what I payed for.
That's not what the description meant. The wording of the description treats resets and commercial release as two separate things. |
Illuminaughty-696
Omega Risk Control Services
241
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 15:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
Plastic-Jesus wrote:To me it sounded like they meant for there to be a reset at release and you would get a refund. But since there will be no reset on commercial release now, you are not entitled to a refund. I don't care either way, I got what I payed for.
They did originally intend for there to be a reset on commercial release, or so it was made to seem throughout closed beta. Then everyone started whining about how they'd stop playing if they had to 'grind' SP again, blah, blah, blah. Now here we are.
However, it never stated that if there wasn't a SP reset there wouldn't be a return of the AUR and items, so your reasoning is a little off there. Commercial release was stated as separate from the word resets, intentionally so. Just because CCP decided later to not do a SP reset upon commercial release doesn't mean it invalidates the purchase agreement. You didn't actually get what you paid for, but if you're okay with getting less than you paid for, then that's your prerogative.
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Ivan Avogadro
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
72
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Posted - 2013.04.15 15:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
Even if you did spend SP frivolously, you're getting a respec. Spend it better this time. But to be allowed to keep your boosted SP and to be given another set of boosters and AUR is essentially doubling up your purchase.
The point of the language was because CCP wanted people to know we weren't throwing money into a beta which would then be wiped away. They promised to give back something you bought if they destroyed it. Since they aren't doing a wipe, there is no reason to refund your purchase. You got to keep it all. If they aren't taking anything away from you, what exactly are they giving back?
So: you get to keep your boosted SP, you get to keep your BPOs, you get to keep your unspent AUR... So what exactly did you frivolously spend away? A bunch of Myofibrl Enhancers and Hacked Drop Uplinks? |
Plastic-Jesus
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
1
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Posted - 2013.04.15 16:15:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ivan Avogadro wrote:Even if you did spend SP frivolously, you're getting a respec. Spend it better this time. But to be allowed to keep your boosted SP and to be given another set of boosters and AUR is essentially doubling up your purchase.
The point of the language was because CCP wanted people to know we weren't throwing money into a beta which would then be wiped away. They promised to give back something you bought if they destroyed it. Since they aren't doing a wipe, there is no reason to refund your purchase. You got to keep it all. If they aren't taking anything away from you, what exactly are they giving back?
So: you get to keep your boosted SP, you get to keep your BPOs, you get to keep your unspent AUR... So what exactly did you frivolously spend away? A bunch of Myofibrl Enhancers and Hacked Drop Uplinks?
Thats what i was trying to say, but english isnt my first language. |
Illuminaughty-696
Omega Risk Control Services
241
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 16:27:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ivan Avogadro wrote:Even if you did spend SP frivolously, you're getting a respec. Spend it better this time. But to be allowed to keep your boosted SP and to be given another set of boosters and AUR is essentially doubling up your purchase.
The point of the language was because CCP wanted people to know we weren't throwing money into a beta which would then be wiped away. They promised to give back something you bought if they destroyed it. Since they aren't doing a wipe, there is no reason to refund your purchase. You got to keep it all. If they aren't taking anything away from you, what exactly are they giving back?
So: you get to keep your boosted SP, you get to keep your BPOs, you get to keep your unspent AUR... So what exactly did you frivolously spend away? A bunch of Myofibrl Enhancers and Hacked Drop Uplinks?
SP wasn't spent frivolously, AUR was. This has nothing to do with SP except the possibility of a SP reset (which as CCP has said won't happen, barring something catastrophic). The AUR (and arguably the consumable, non-BPO items) from the merc packs was purchased and spent on the understanding it would be refunded upon commercial release. Simple. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
145
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 23:53:00 -
[30] - Quote
fred orpaul wrote:I'm sorry all this has been discussed to death I know, but I would like clarification from CCP on how to formally and legally acknowledge that the decision to buy merc/aurum packs was made with the understanding that. 1) I was helping to fund a game in development and 2) I don't hold CCP responsible to any refund unless CCP removes the items and/or benefits gained from those items in the merc/aurum packs from my account.
While I welcome any one who would like to receive this information to post here as well, I ask those who disagree to please not turn this into another pointless flame war.
I want to explicitly state here that I do disagree and I do want my full merc pack re-issued to me on release as promised with no penalties. |
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