DUST Search - [Feedback] Moving away from traditional racial bonuses?

Korvin Lomont wrote:

Pokey Dravon wrote:

Korvin Lomont wrote:

I really like your Ideas I would make the following changes to your list:
ASSAULT SUITS:
Amarr
-inrease Dropsuitarmor by 3% / Lvl Assault Suits

Gallente
- +1 Hp Dropsuitselfrepair / Lvl Assault Suits

LOGISTICS:
-Inrease armor repairrate from Triage tools by 5% / Lvl Gallente Logistics

Increased Efficacy of Armor plates would increase the dropsuit armor effectively, but also add more benefit for high level modules as affects the modules by a % and not just the base HP. This allows you to actually get more HP overall and puts the focus on the modules and not so much the suit which is where CCP seems to be going.

Again, increased efficacy of armor repairers more or less does what you're talking about, but focuses on the modules.

And that bonus is more or less already applied to the Minmatar Logistics Suit in my suggestion. I actually like the Gallente having that abilit to equip better gear items due to lowered cost, so I'll respectfully disagree with you on that.

Ah you have good points here. BTW sorry for oversseing the Bonus for minmater Logi I was still a bit tired as I made the post.

So basicly I agree with the bonusses but not in the way they get applied. I still prefere a Dropsuitbonus as this benefits all Dropsuits in the same way (low level as well as Proto) and is more flexible as it leaves room for modules. And I believe the bonusses are more powerfull when applied to the suit. But that is just a matter of taste I guess.

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Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 674	Posted - 2013.04.15 01:33:00 - [31] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: . . OP post . . Totally agree that the CCP's plans on skill bonuses is incoherent, uneven between races. Also nice that you made a suggestion on better skill bonuses. But your suggestions are way overpowered, sorry to say. Milder ones please. How can they be overpowered when there are no actual values listed? I already said I left those values out intentionally to avoid people getting caught up on the numbers and focus more on the idea behind traditional role and racial bonuses.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 19	Posted - 2013.04.15 08:03:00 - [32] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: I really like your Ideas I would make the following changes to your list: ASSAULT SUITS: Amarr -inrease Dropsuitarmor by 3% / Lvl Assault Suits Gallente - +1 Hp Dropsuitselfrepair / Lvl Assault Suits LOGISTICS: -Inrease armor repairrate from Triage tools by 5% / Lvl Gallente Logistics Increased Efficacy of Armor plates would increase the dropsuit armor effectively, but also add more benefit for high level modules as affects the modules by a % and not just the base HP. This allows you to actually get more HP overall and puts the focus on the modules and not so much the suit which is where CCP seems to be going. Again, increased efficacy of armor repairers more or less does what you're talking about, but focuses on the modules. And that bonus is more or less already applied to the Minmatar Logistics Suit in my suggestion. I actually like the Gallente having that abilit to equip better gear items due to lowered cost, so I'll respectfully disagree with you on that. Ah you have good points here. BTW sorry for oversseing the Bonus for minmater Logi I was still a bit tired as I made the post. So basicly I agree with the bonusses but not in the way they get applied. I still prefere a Dropsuitbonus as this benefits all Dropsuits in the same way (low level as well as Proto) and is more flexible as it leaves room for modules. And I believe the bonusses are more powerfull when applied to the suit. But that is just a matter of taste I guess.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 695	Posted - 2013.04.15 22:06:00 - [33] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: I really like your Ideas I would make the following changes to your list: ASSAULT SUITS: Amarr -inrease Dropsuitarmor by 3% / Lvl Assault Suits Gallente - +1 Hp Dropsuitselfrepair / Lvl Assault Suits LOGISTICS: -Inrease armor repairrate from Triage tools by 5% / Lvl Gallente Logistics Increased Efficacy of Armor plates would increase the dropsuit armor effectively, but also add more benefit for high level modules as affects the modules by a % and not just the base HP. This allows you to actually get more HP overall and puts the focus on the modules and not so much the suit which is where CCP seems to be going. Again, increased efficacy of armor repairers more or less does what you're talking about, but focuses on the modules. And that bonus is more or less already applied to the Minmatar Logistics Suit in my suggestion. I actually like the Gallente having that abilit to equip better gear items due to lowered cost, so I'll respectfully disagree with you on that. Ah you have good points here. BTW sorry for oversseing the Bonus for minmater Logi I was still a bit tired as I made the post. So basicly I agree with the bonusses but not in the way they get applied. I still prefere a Dropsuitbonus as this benefits all Dropsuits in the same way (low level as well as Proto) and is more flexible as it leaves room for modules. And I believe the bonusses are more powerfull when applied to the suit. But that is just a matter of taste I guess. Except Standard>Advanced>Prototype suits all have the same base armor, so in reality having the bonuses affect the base value on the suit, you gain zero additional benefit from the skill by using a higher level suit. By applying it to the modules, it allows the proto suits to gain more of a benefit because they're able to equip better modules. Basically if you want to flatline the suits you apply the bonuses to the suits. If you want a greater advantage for using the better suits and modules, you apply the skill to the module. So yes its a matter of personal preference.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 704	Posted - 2013.04.16 20:54:00 - [34] - Quote nudge.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 711	Posted - 2013.04.19 08:44:00 - [35] - Quote nudge nudge.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 1	Posted - 2013.04.19 13:38:00 - [36] - Quote Minmatar: 5% to sidarm weaponry magazine size / Lvl Minmatar Assault Useless, I dont see ANYONE skilling into this, you'd get what? 1 extra round in a scrambler? If that? Since scrablers are the only good side arm I see zero point to this. Minmatar: +5% Melee and Nova Knife Damage / Lvl of Minmatar Scout This is just plain awful, Nova knives and melee are both horrible thanks to poor reach and worse hit detection (which will never be completely fixed because there will always be server latancy CCP seems to hate Minmatar
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 717	Posted - 2013.04.20 18:10:00 - [37] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Minmatar: 5% to sidarm weaponry magazine size / Lvl Minmatar Assault Useless, I dont see ANYONE skilling into this, you'd get what? 1 extra round in a scrambler? If that? Since scrablers are the only good side arm I see zero point to this. Minmatar: +5% Melee and Nova Knife Damage / Lvl of Minmatar Scout This is just plain awful, Nova knives and melee are both horrible thanks to poor reach and worse hit detection (which will never be completely fixed because there will always be server latancy CCP seems to hate Minmatar I guarantee if things stay as they are, we'll see 80% of assault suits be Amarr, because that's the only one that has a decent role bonus for assault suits.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 885	Posted - 2013.04.22 07:01:00 - [38] - Quote As Logi is my primary I'm going to address those aspects of your OP (thanks for putting this post/information together btw). Pokey Dravon wrote: LOGISTICS SUITS: +1 HP/second to dropsuit armor repair rate for repair tools / Lvl of (Race) Medium Suits (This is up for interpretation, it could actually mean armor repair modules perform better) Amarr: +5% Efficacy of Armor Repair modules / Lvl of Amarr Logistics Caldari: +5% Efficacy of Shield Extender modules / Lvl of Caldari Logistics Gallente: -5% to PG/CPU cost of equipment / Lvl of Gallente Logistic Minmatar: +5% Hacking Speed / Lvl of Minmatar Logistics If the suit bonus for Logi isn't to self repair (i.e. is for the tool on the module) then it's a net nerf to Logi's until CCP fixes the broken WP awards method on equipment. [Link for those who are unfamiliar with the issue.] The racial suit bonuses aren't bad and thankfully hold to the overall flavor of the races. It's interesting to have more 'active' tanking for armor builds (Amarr) and more buffer for shield builds (Caldari), I'm curious to see how the two compare for survivability (and wonder how the Amarr bonus will interact with the current bonuses from the armor repair module skill, and from the new Logi suit bonus... assuming it's the useful one not the role nerfing one). The Gallente bonus makes it the new "Killer Logi" suit allowing more more dps potential than any other Logi suit. Minmatar, this bonus may be overlooked by some at first but having an extra 5% in addition to fully leveled hacking skills and a prototype codebreaker (or two) could offer several specialized configurations that are very viable either for play in pre-made squads (those with synergistic play and gear) or as a solo build for pub games. Quote: LOGISTICS: Amarr -Increased Armor Repair module Efficacy / Lvl Amarr Medium Suits -Increased Armor-on-Revive for Injectors / Lvl of Amarr Logistics Caldari -Increased Shield Extender Efficacy / Lvl Caldari Medium Suits -Increased Nanite Cluster Capacity for Nanohives / Lvl of Caldari Logistics Gallente -Decreased CPU/PG cost of Equipment / Lvl Gallente Medium Suits -Decreased Spawn time for Drop Uplinks / Lvl Gallente Logistics Minmatar -Increased hacking speed / Lvl Minmatar Medium Suits -Increased repair rate of repair tools / Lvl Minmatar Logistics Amarr I like the theme and the tactical values presented by these suggestions. The unfortunate aspect is that until CCP fixes scaling method/earnings for equipment WP the second suggested effect would hobble the earnings potential of Logi who went Amarr. Caldari No objections here, fits flavor and provides role specialization. Gallente Same as Caldari, good flavor and overall specialization value. Minmatar Hack speed, same analysis as above. Repair Tool bonus, as mentioned above tactical value is clearly present but it runs afoul of the broken WP issue with equipment. 0.02 ISK Cross
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 55	Posted - 2013.04.22 07:18:00 - [39] - Quote +1 for the mention of armor honeycombing. The movement penalty is way too steep for what you get. Feels like every complex plate is just one bullet from a GEK.
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 222	Posted - 2013.04.22 11:48:00 - [40] - Quote Ugh, blanket shield bonuses - way to go CCP, two birds with one stone - kitten up racial suits AND kick armour tanking while it's down. +1 to the OP's suggestions, although I'd rather see the Minmatar scout get the hacking bonus than the useless melee bonus. EDIT: Cosgar wrote: +1 for the mention of armor honeycombing. The movement penalty is way too steep for what you get. Feels like every complex plate is just one bullet from a GEK. CCP should flatten the penalty down much, much more (maybe flatten the bonus more towards the middle if things start getting - dare I say it - OP) AND introduce a honeycombing skill. Maybe even give shield mods a sig radius penalty - so they show up on scanners easier. But this isn't a tanking thread, it's a CCP - FIX THE GODDAMM SUIT BONUSES thread.

J-Lewis Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 23	Posted - 2013.04.22 15:31:00 - [41] - Quote Something that confused me greatly was how the bonuses are listed on the skill and not the individual dropsuit. I assume it's to cut down on copy paste, but they already do copious amounts of that for the suit descriptions so I don't see the issue in having a couple more lines. To the point though; the suggestions in the OP are very well done. I'd rather have those suits than those we're getting. I hope CCP has read this thread. You should also nudge Iron Wolf Saber and the other CPM about it too - send a mail if you have to. +1 sir.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 726	Posted - 2013.04.22 20:15:00 - [42] - Quote Yeah I normally hate bumping threads but I feel very strongly about this issue, and it seems it's gaining a lot of support from the community as a whole so I've been doing my best to keep it on the front page for the Devs to see. It would be nice if they ARE reading it to make a post COUGH even if they don't take my advice. Maybe I'll get back on IRC sometime and ***** about it.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 886	Posted - 2013.04.22 23:23:00 - [43] - Quote Even if we're not likely to see any changes until a build or two after Uprising it would still be great to get some CPM (or better yet Dev) response/reaction this this thread.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 727	Posted - 2013.04.23 19:27:00 - [44] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Even if we're not likely to see any changes until a build or two after Uprising it would still be great to get some CPM (or better yet Dev) response/reaction this this thread. Does CPM even exist? I thought it was just the War Council which is 5 people who are deciding on how the first CPM election is going to be held.
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 605	Posted - 2013.04.23 21:13:00 - [45] - Quote I agree that the bonuses seem a bit underwhelming, but perhaps this is intentional. Of course, as one of the rare sidearm specialists out there, I am excited about getting the better deal with what we have (say hello to my 100 round SMG) and thus a little biased.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 887	Posted - 2013.04.23 23:57:00 - [46] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Even if we're not likely to see any changes until a build or two after Uprising it would still be great to get some CPM (or better yet Dev) response/reaction this this thread. Does CPM even exist? I thought it was just the War Council which is 5 people who are deciding on how the first CPM election is going to be held. It's still the beta version but yes it it's announced and active https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=69605 as far as I understand it while one of their duties will be helping to set up how the elected members will be chosen for the second CPM they're still responsible for all other duties as well.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 743	Posted - 2013.04.25 02:05:00 - [47] - Quote Well we'll see in the next few days if they're took my suggestion to heart or not...
Sparrow Darkly Martyrdom Inc Insurance Fraud. 3	Posted - 2013.05.11 18:29:00 - [48] - Quote +1 A very well done application of bonuses that is in line with how EVE does things. Seriously, I love it and wish CCP would take notice in order to make this game better. If I could change anything it would be to give the Gallente Logistics the increased efficacy of repair tools and the Minmatar Logistics get the decreased spawn time of Drop Uplinks. I believe this would better suit their races.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 784	Posted - 2013.05.15 00:24:00 - [49] - Quote cough well now that everyone realizes the Assault suits have BS bonuses, might as well bump this thread again.


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