DUST Search - What about the Tactical AR needs fixing?

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

How about they swap things around.

"Breach" weapons are meant to help you "breach" enemy positions - hence the name. This means short-range, CQC-focused weapon. Breach Shotguns deal more damage, but at the cost of ammo count, because Shotguns are already a hard-hitting CQC weapon, and making them hit even harder makes them better for CQC. A Breach AR should, logically, handle sort of like a hybrid AR/SMG - higher RoF than a normal AR, shorter effective/max range, and more kick, but with less damage per shot - slightly higher dps, but not by much.

"Tactical" weapons are the long-range variants. Tactical Snipers sacrifice damage for higher RoF and range, which works because they're already low-RoF long-range weapons with high damage. The increased RoF makes up for the loss of precision at extreme ranges, and the scope helps as well. For a Tac AR, though, following that same model makes it LESS viable for long-range, because it isn't already an extreme-range weapon.

So, pretty much, swap the damage, kick and RoF lines from the Breach and Tac AR, and keep the rest as-is.

You get a low-damage, high-RoF full-auto AR with heavy kick for CQC, and a high-damage, low-RoF semi-auto AR for long range operations.

Fixed? You tell me...

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Kiiran-B Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 46	Posted - 2013.04.12 02:36:00 - [31] - Quote If you study the recoil, it works like an overheating system on the LR or the HMG. If you fire continuously fire it you have to wait for the recoil to come back down to its original aiming positon. That has to be fixed.
EKH0 0ne Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2013.04.12 02:48:00 - [32] - Quote bigger magazine duh
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. 448	Posted - 2013.04.12 03:29:00 - [33] - Quote Kiiran-B wrote: If you study the recoil, it works like an overheating system on the LR or the HMG. If you fire continuously fire it you have to wait for the recoil to come back down to its original aiming positon. That has to be fixed. It does on the TAR but not the BAR. The BAR needs to recenter a few beats after a burst, the TAR needs to have more stick but less kick.
XxWarlordxX97 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1423	Posted - 2013.04.12 04:04:00 - [34] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: XxWarlordxX97 wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Baal Roo wrote: The Tac is a well balanced weapon, which is why AR users think it is underpowered. No changes are needed. At it's max range, the TAR fires one shot then has to be recentered. With a mouse this may be no problem, but for a Ds3 player this is ridiculously difficult considering you have to correct for both massive recoil with every shot AND track the player. If the controls were more fluid on the Ds3, I'd say leave it as is. As they are, it needs less recoil and a slower ROF. less recoil is all it needs Then we'd be in the territory of modded controllers=win button again. If you reduce the recoil so much that it's usable without having to correct every shot, you have modded controllers showing up. If you drop the ROF as well, then a modded controller isn't an issue anymore. We went over this months ago. so you use a modded controller good to know
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. 448	Posted - 2013.04.12 04:57:00 - [35] - Quote If I had one I'd be stupid to try to keep from bringing back their advantage. And trying to get a response by pretending to draw an answer that is in no way implied out of a statement made on the topic is childish, please grow up.
XxWarlordxX97 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1428	Posted - 2013.04.12 04:59:00 - [36] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: If I had one I'd be stupid to try to keep from bringing back their advantage. And trying to get a response by pretending to draw an answer that is in no way implied out of a statement made on the topic is childish, please grow up. please just die
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 872	Posted - 2013.04.12 05:00:00 - [37] - Quote ZiwZih wrote: Or they could compensate with slightly more damage. This one would be sweet, actually. . Zwih Zih, I've converted to almost always TAR and Burst AR (I call it BAR while Breach is still Breach). I prefer the increase in the Damage, and slightly max ammo nerf. That way it's less like a vanilla AR, and it wouldn't affect the way we currently use it (changing recoil will result in different firing, not higher damage)
Ulysses Knapse Nuevo Atlas Corporation 223	Posted - 2013.04.12 05:13:00 - [38] - Quote I never did understand why Tactical ARs have so much recoil and so much RoF. A skilled gunman in real life can fire 5-6 shots per second with a semi-automatic weapon, which is only around 300-360 RPM.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. 448	Posted - 2013.04.12 05:41:00 - [39] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: I never did understand why Tactical ARs have so much recoil and so much RoF. A skilled gunman in real life can fire 5-6 shots per second with a semi-automatic weapon, which is only around 300-360 RPM. Because people insist that their "natural gifts" to rapid fire a plastic trigger should give them an advantage when playing a game with weapons in it, regardless of what makes logical sense.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2451	Posted - 2013.04.12 06:45:00 - [40] - Quote How about they swap things around. "Breach" weapons are meant to help you "breach" enemy positions - hence the name. This means short-range, CQC-focused weapon. Breach Shotguns deal more damage, but at the cost of ammo count, because Shotguns are already a hard-hitting CQC weapon, and making them hit even harder makes them better for CQC. A Breach AR should, logically, handle sort of like a hybrid AR/SMG - higher RoF than a normal AR, shorter effective/max range, and more kick, but with less damage per shot - slightly higher dps, but not by much. "Tactical" weapons are the long-range variants. Tactical Snipers sacrifice damage for higher RoF and range, which works because they're already low-RoF long-range weapons with high damage. The increased RoF makes up for the loss of precision at extreme ranges, and the scope helps as well. For a Tac AR, though, following that same model makes it LESS viable for long-range, because it isn't already an extreme-range weapon. So, pretty much, swap the damage, kick and RoF lines from the Breach and Tac AR, and keep the rest as-is. You get a low-damage, high-RoF full-auto AR with heavy kick for CQC, and a high-damage, low-RoF semi-auto AR for long range operations. Fixed? You tell me...

Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 97	Posted - 2013.04.12 07:39:00 - [41] - Quote the tactical should just work like a battle rifle. low clip size, low ROF, high damage....I would instantly train for such a weapon.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. 451	Posted - 2013.04.12 08:19:00 - [42] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: How about they swap things around. "Breach" weapons are meant to help you "breach" enemy positions - hence the name. This means short-range, CQC-focused weapon. Breach Shotguns deal more damage, but at the cost of ammo count, because Shotguns are already a hard-hitting CQC weapon, and making them hit even harder makes them better for CQC. A Breach AR should, logically, handle sort of like a hybrid AR/SMG - higher RoF than a normal AR, shorter effective/max range, and more kick, but with less damage per shot - slightly higher dps, but not by much. "Tactical" weapons are the long-range variants. Tactical Snipers sacrifice damage for higher RoF and range, which works because they're already low-RoF long-range weapons with high damage. The increased RoF makes up for the loss of precision at extreme ranges, and the scope helps as well. For a Tac AR, though, following that same model makes it LESS viable for long-range, because it isn't already an extreme-range weapon. So, pretty much, swap the damage, kick and RoF lines from the Breach and Tac AR, and keep the rest as-is. You get a low-damage, high-RoF full-auto AR with heavy kick for CQC, and a high-damage, low-RoF semi-auto AR for long range operations. Fixed? You tell me... As long as the breach becomes viable again, I'll go for it. I suggested something similar a couple months ago.
G Torq ALTA B2O 131	Posted - 2013.04.13 11:26:00 - [43] - Quote Slight reduction to recoil/kick and/or minimal increase in speed to re-center Slight increase in damage (a few points only) Range is good (just beyond Lazor, optimal outside of HMG) RoF to be reduced to 5-600 (need to be able to hip-fire rapidly) Scope-range on higher levels to improve (5% per meta-level?) @Jack McReady: You should take a good, long look at the Scrambler Rifle on May 6th...


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