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Will SP inflation mean harder time for newberries?

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Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors O.M.N.I. Initiative 355	Posted - 2013.04.11 13:51:00 - [1] - Quote So the average SP per merc right now is probably around 5 million? If the new player coming in only gets, what, around 1 million after starter skills, what will the experience be like after the average is 10 million with many being over 20 million? I know this has been hashed over many times, but I was wondering what we think should be done for new players to let their intro experience be sufficiently gratifying/fair? One thing that I think might help would be to have SP Remapping Kits that you could buy with Aurum. However, they would be given to the new merc (and never allowed to be resold), but only after 2 weeks or so of playing. In that time they could accumulate SP at an accelerated rate, AND then be allowed to correct their mistakes, know their weaknesses and compensate for where they realize they need to improve. The alternative is to raise the amount of SP a new player receives on an account each month.
kenderr cillo Grupo de Asalto Chacal CRONOS. 0	Posted - 2013.04.11 13:57:00 - [2] - Quote I would like more a progresive way of earn sp. The more u have the less u earn. I know that is a problem for leveling to 5 some skills, but this will make the game more fair, allowing to advance better the new players.
Kamiya Musume Suffer Inc. 100	Posted - 2013.04.11 13:58:00 - [3] - Quote Or a proper tiered matchmaking system...
SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1998	Posted - 2013.04.11 13:59:00 - [4] - Quote The solution is game modes where people like us don't just wtf slaughter newberries - but CCP hates not only armor and heavies - but new berries too it seems as I've heard of no game mode where new berries can play in peace.
Zekain Kade BetaMax. CRONOS. 1211	Posted - 2013.04.11 14:00:00 - [5] - Quote kenderr cillo wrote: I would like more a progresive way of earn sp. The more u have the less u earn. I know that is a problem for leveling to 5 some skills, but this will make the game more fair, allowing to advance better the new players. And kill the old player base
Kazio De Vihura Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN 10	Posted - 2013.04.11 14:03:00 - [6] - Quote You can't use proto assault and proto logi in the same time, you have choice, new player can get in to proto assault in 2 mounth and kill you in you proto assault or logi if he is good.
Vyzion Eyri The Legion Academy ROFL BROS 448	Posted - 2013.04.11 14:11:00 - [7] - Quote Buff militia gear and force all those with 10mill SP and above to lose access to the four free starter fits (can keep the specialisation fit) and free LAV. Then the big guys will want to stay away from newbie matches because they make nothing from killing people in free gear, and have too much to lose otherwise, unless they buy their own BPO setup. More money for CCP.
Red Eye Laser Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 28	Posted - 2013.04.11 14:15:00 - [8] - Quote Erm New build coming soon, with a "drone mode" that's apparently endless an can be played with 16 people. New players will be able to jump into it and grind for ISK and SP without gettin creamed by more experienced players.
KatanaPT Tech Guard 31	Posted - 2013.04.11 14:28:00 - [9] - Quote kenderr cillo wrote: I would like more a progresive way of earn sp. The more u have the less u earn. I know that is a problem for leveling to 5 some skills, but this will make the game more fair, allowing to advance better the new players. Exactly, this is akin to many rpgs, the higher your lvl the less exp you earn. I already had suggested this a while ago, but was ignore. But this way would really balance things out.
Daedric Lothar Onslaught Inc 187	Posted - 2013.04.11 14:29:00 - [10] - Quote Honestly they just need to keep it the way EVE has always been. Yes you may have 400M SP, and this guy only has like 10-15M SP. But if you specialize that 10-15M in one area then you will be at around 95% efficienct with that build, and then you can branch out into other areas or spend another 5M to become 100% efficient. The 400M player will just be more flexible about what he can spawn into.

KatanaPT Tech Guard 31	Posted - 2013.04.11 14:29:00 - [11] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: kenderr cillo wrote: I would like more a progresive way of earn sp. The more u have the less u earn. I know that is a problem for leveling to 5 some skills, but this will make the game more fair, allowing to advance better the new players. And kill the old player base Na, they would complain and all, but no one would leave for that. I doubt it.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 258	Posted - 2013.04.11 14:59:00 - [12] - Quote Daedric Lothar wrote: Honestly they just need to keep it the way EVE has always been. Yes you may have 400M SP, and this guy only has like 10-15M SP. But if you specialize that 10-15M in one area then you will be at around 95% efficienct with that build, and then you can branch out into other areas or spend another 5M to become 100% efficient. The 400M player will just be more flexible about what he can spawn into. [Edit]: It would probably be helpful to newbies if there were roadmaps for skills. A nice big skill chart that showed a certain skill like AR and then all the braching skills that make that type of gameplay better, so that way it will encourage newbies to specialize. Throughout this thread I see people suggesting skill capping and slowing down skills. I think just about everyone misses the idea of specialization and focus over raw SP numbers. This is true. Beyond about 8m sp currently, additional sp only allows you to diversify. This means a new player can get the best gear and skills and be even with veterans in about 3 months - all without spending any money. The current sp system is fine.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 77	Posted - 2013.04.11 15:05:00 - [13] - Quote Already? "I've ridden the mighty moon worm." Al Gore
trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 280	Posted - 2013.04.11 15:11:00 - [14] - Quote How about new weapons that are balanced but very specialized, that unlock after a base type has been maxed? Eg. balance burst AR, make it available after AR proficiency 4. Give it a whole skill tree like ar has.
trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 280	Posted - 2013.04.11 15:15:00 - [15] - Quote Alternate idea: eg. Pulse laser rifle (= em damage AR with laser optimal range system). Requires both laser and ar proficiency 4. Balanced to be just anti-shield ar, nothing more.
loumanchew Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.04.11 15:15:00 - [16] - Quote I don't think the SP is the real problem, I have gained 5 mill sp in 2 months of play while working 4 days a week with 4 courses in university. I think the newberries can wait for 2 months to have a very competitive build. I think the problem is that it is very hard to keep stacking SP up to say 1.2 million to buy that proto suit. The reality is that you will put a few points here and there to experience the game. This being said, imo it puts players who have seen a reset or 2 at a real advantage because they can now put 2.4 million into a suit right off the bat and then go spend a little here and there. Secondly, this game needs a solo queuing option where all players are solo. There will be less ''lets roll the pugs that are learning the game'' and the battles will be much more interesting. The matching system could incorporate a way to put players that are on the same corp that are trying to time their entries, and I know they will try based on what I have seen on guild wars, in separate games or opposing teams. This would build a very strong player base that might stick around longer than they are now without thinking ''this is stupid''.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2732	Posted - 2013.04.11 15:19:00 - [17] - Quote Im almost sure Instant battle games will be more newbie friendly next build since EVERYONE in a corp will jump in FW for the chance to pub with a full team and not have to deal with randoms + higher payout As for the new skill system and it maybe taking alot longer to grind skills yes that could be a big problem and feel alot like a job BUT once there is some fun game modes both PvP and PvE wise and also PC along with LP and some form of LP store for FW i think it wont be that bad tbh
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 1957	Posted - 2013.04.11 15:31:00 - [18] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: So the average SP per merc right now is probably around 5 million? If the new player coming in only gets, what, around 1 million after starter skills, what will the experience be like after the average is 10 million with many being over 20 million? I know this has been hashed over many times, but I was wondering what we think should be done for new players to let their intro experience be sufficiently gratifying/fair? One thing that I think might help would be to have SP Remapping Kits that you could buy with Aurum. However, they would be given to the new merc (and never allowed to be resold), but only after 2 weeks or so of playing. In that time they could accumulate SP at an accelerated rate, AND then be allowed to correct their mistakes, know their weaknesses and compensate for where they realize they need to improve. The alternative is to raise the amount of SP a new player receives on an account each month. There is hardly anything fair about any FPS to be honest. You will always see veteran players every time you join a game as a new player. Now consider what you said earlier. Quote: 10 million with many being over 20 million? If you have 10 million SP and the older player has 20 million SP, what about the player who just came in with 500,000 SP? Relatively speaking, one will always be ahead of the other no matter what. It's like how you and I were born. If I am 3 months older than you, then it won't matter if you wait 3 months to catch up because I will always be three months ahead of you. Quote: SP Remapping Kits that you could buy with Aurum. We discussed this already even during closed beta. It will just ruin the whole point of having meaningful choices because the consequences of said choices will not be permanent if you introduce this system. Sure, CCP could make a lot of money out of this idea, but that will violate the core principles that the company vowed to follow.
NIKIA BETHUNE Ill Omens EoN. 104	Posted - 2013.04.11 15:36:00 - [19] - Quote KatanaPT wrote: Zekain Kade wrote: kenderr cillo wrote: I would like more a progresive way of earn sp. The more u have the less u earn. I know that is a problem for leveling to 5 some skills, but this will make the game more fair, allowing to advance better the new players. And kill the old player base Na, they would complain and all, but no one would leave for that. I doubt it. I would. If they took my sp for that reason that's bs. Sorry if u can't see it but I don't know one game that penalizes you for playing longer makes no sense.
noob 45 Syndicate of Gods 30	Posted - 2013.04.11 16:32:00 - [20] - Quote KatanaPT wrote: kenderr cillo wrote: I would like more a progresive way of earn sp. The more u have the less u earn. I know that is a problem for leveling to 5 some skills, but this will make the game more fair, allowing to advance better the new players. Exactly, this is akin to many rpgs, the higher your lvl the less exp you earn. I already had suggested this a while ago, but was ignore. But this way would really balance things out. Since there isn't a specific character 'level' but a skill tree system your idea doesn't really fit in here and yet at the same time has already been implemented. The level 5 of a skill usually = the amount of sp you spent on the skill lvls 1-4.

Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 1958	Posted - 2013.04.11 16:33:00 - [21] - Quote NIKIA BETHUNE wrote: KatanaPT wrote: Zekain Kade wrote: kenderr cillo wrote: I would like more a progresive way of earn sp. The more u have the less u earn. I know that is a problem for leveling to 5 some skills, but this will make the game more fair, allowing to advance better the new players. And kill the old player base Na, they would complain and all, but no one would leave for that. I doubt it. I would. If they took my sp for that reason that's bs. Sorry if u can't see it but I don't know one game that penalizes you for playing longer makes no sense. Eve Online. Try keeping your clone up to date after reaching 200 million SP. The price is immense.
KatanaPT Tech Guard 32	Posted - 2013.04.11 16:36:00 - [22] - Quote NIKIA BETHUNE wrote: KatanaPT wrote: Zekain Kade wrote: kenderr cillo wrote: I would like more a progresive way of earn sp. The more u have the less u earn. I know that is a problem for leveling to 5 some skills, but this will make the game more fair, allowing to advance better the new players. And kill the old player base Na, they would complain and all, but no one would leave for that. I doubt it. I would. If they took my sp for that reason that's bs. Sorry if u can't see it but I don't know one game that penalizes you for playing longer makes no sense. Almost every rpg?... The higher your level the less EXP you get.
Daedric Lothar Onslaught Inc 190	Posted - 2013.04.11 16:38:00 - [23] - Quote I like the post where everyone says the vets are going to go FW and so things will be better because that will stop Pubstomping. I forse "Everyone" going to FW. So the pubstomping will just become Factiontromping.
noob 45 Syndicate of Gods 30	Posted - 2013.04.11 16:46:00 - [24] - Quote KatanaPT wrote: NIKIA BETHUNE wrote: KatanaPT wrote: Zekain Kade wrote: kenderr cillo wrote: I would like more a progresive way of earn sp. The more u have the less u earn. I know that is a problem for leveling to 5 some skills, but this will make the game more fair, allowing to advance better the new players. And kill the old player base Na, they would complain and all, but no one would leave for that. I doubt it. I would. If they took my sp for that reason that's bs. Sorry if u can't see it but I don't know one game that penalizes you for playing longer makes no sense. Almost every rpg?... The higher your level the less EXP you get. Noooo...... that isn't how they work. Every level requires more xp than the last level. Monsters stay the same level and give you the same amount of experience as they always did. Since the amount of xp needed for next level increases and mob xp reward stays the same. That IS how this game is already. The only difference is in an RPG usually higher level monsters give you more XP, but higher tiered mercs in this game give you the same SP for a kill and are just that much harder to kill.
kenderr cillo Grupo de Asalto Chacal CRONOS. 1	Posted - 2013.04.11 16:51:00 - [25] - Quote Other way is boost the xp earned by new players like in EVE (Some years ago, right now i dont know if this works) Its a easy way, earning more xp for battle till reach 1,5 million of sp or 1 million.
Casius Hakoke Fenrir's Wolves 63	Posted - 2013.04.11 18:00:00 - [26] - Quote kenderr cillo wrote: Other way is boost the xp earned by new players like in EVE (Some years ago, right now i dont know if this works) Its a easy way, earning more xp for battle till reach 1,5 million of sp or 1 million. The cerebral accelerator if I remember correctly. I'm pretty sure its only usable for the first 30 days of your account/character. Not real sure on all of the details, but you can always see them on contract in EVE. Closest thing I've seen in EVE like the boosters people currently use for passive/active SP. Edit: Just remembered what you were talking about and it wasn't what I mentioned, but something like a newbie accelerator could work for the first million or so SP as well.
D Roc43 L.O.T.I.S. 15	Posted - 2013.04.11 18:32:00 - [27] - Quote That IS how this game is already. The only difference is in an RPG usually higher level monsters give you more XP, but higher tiered mercs in this game give you the same SP for a kill and are just that much harder to kill.[/quote] This problem will be fixed come may 6th with PC because most high sp characters will launch into PC more often than not so they will be fighting higher sp, higher skilled players anyways. Also whenever they release drone infestation, it will allow the lower sp players to go grind isk and sp away from the higher sp players. At the end of the day the absolute last thing you want to do is alienate your main veteran player base to make it easier for newer players by altering the sp system or adding diminishing returns to it after a certain point. Let's not forget who's in it for the long haul. If you favor your new guys coming in that honestly might say this game is crap after 3 days and go back to cod, then your older members which make up the main player base of this game might go packing too. It's a fine line for ccp to walk but they have done a relatively good job of it so far, not that there are not ways to improve upon it.
Bones McGavins Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 52	Posted - 2013.04.11 18:41:00 - [28] - Quote The advantage one has in SP is curved. After getting a build maxed out, that build is as competitive as any other player no matter how much SP they have. After that point, SP becomes more about multi-specing and versatility rather than having an actual advantage. Eventually you'll see higher tier stuff, but the beauty of DUST is once PC is in, there isnt a reason to run your multi million ISK fits in public games. Right now there is no reason NOT TO cause what else can you do, sit on your ISK? But once fights matter, you wont be throwing away ISK at pub matches, so you wont need to worry as much about fancy builds pub stomping. Hopefully they also split stats between PC and pub, so there is literally no reason to pub stomp. Getting a 10+ k/d in public matches wont mean squat if your PC k/d is .9


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