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Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 25	Posted - 2013.04.11 22:03:00 - [1] - Quote This club gives mileage bonus?
Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 25	Posted - 2013.04.11 23:38:00 - [2] - Quote May 6 we-¦ll get grouping becoming something that have value, the afking will probably happen only in pubmatches, cause when real isk is involved, afkers will be kicked from the corp and the corp match. And teamkilled.
Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 25	Posted - 2013.04.12 01:16:00 - [3] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: Natu Nobilis wrote: May 6 we-¦ll get grouping becoming something that have value, the afking will probably happen only in pubmatches, cause when real isk is involved, afkers will be kicked from the corp and the corp match. And teamkilled. Does AFK currently happen outside of pubs? Does corp battles mean something now ? (Besides bragging rights)
Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 25	Posted - 2013.04.12 02:25:00 - [4] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: You play a game, to not play the game. The game i want to play will come out in the next years. The game i-¦m willing to play, wil come out May 6. The game that i am playing, is a generic futuristic shooter. I want the RTS and consequence, not a K/D ratio to brag about.
Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 26	Posted - 2013.04.12 11:08:00 - [5] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Natu Nobilis wrote: The game i want to play will come out in the next years. The game i-¦m willing to play, wil come out May 6. The game that i am playing, is a generic futuristic shooter. I want the RTS and consequence, not a K/D ratio to brag about. It's just funny that so many people feel entitled to get free rewards, and have such trouble seeing the problem with that. I don-¦t know if you play EVE or not, but by the mindset, i-¦ll infer that you don-¦t. In EVE Online, the first game of the New Eden universe, all the characters gain SP passively as they train a certain skill (Train skill and gain SP, instead of Gain SP apply on skill). And passively is the only way to gain SP. Yep, you don-¦t even have to be logged in at the game to get SP. You can just pay, and let the char training for years to return later and "Oh, but like this, if i join today, i-¦ll never have as many SP as a veteran from 2003!" Yes, you are correct! No matter how much one play, even a no lifer that plays 23.5/7 will neve have the same SP ammount that a veteran does. However, the total ammount of SP is nothing compared to the application of said SP. You, starting today, may specialize and perform better at something than me, a 2007 char. I-¦ll say again: You, starting today, may perform better at something than a multimillion SP character in EVE online. Why am i saying all this? In Dust, prior to Open Beta, there was a lot of experimenting with the SP system. Do we transport the pasive SP system of EVE to Dust? Should no lifers get sp in such a rate that they may cap the points in less than 7 years? Should the guy that works and just want to relax 2 hours playing a game, feel so overwelmed by the younglings that play this game like crazy, and have no chance agaisnt them? How to combine reward for proactive behaviour and not penalize passive one? How to reward an active, but bad player? How to retain a bad, but participative player, if he can-¦t gain points by playing? Due to diferent styles, plataforms and target public, we have a mixed Active / Passive system that rewards the ones that play a lot (but with a limit on how much this is rewarded) while maintaining the original "Progression with time" I don-¦t feel "entitled" to get rewards. I payed the Merc Pack to join the game, i worked my ass to get my skinweave suits, i skipped work to participate at the Battle of Caldari prime (Both here and in EVE). It-¦s just that i-¦m sort of a "native" with the SP system of New Eden and you-¦re coming from different lands, with different costumes and a different mindset. Not saying that you-¦re wrong, or that we can-¦t discuss percieved abuses, but what you consider a "problem", is actually a "solution". In my perception, this system is implemented for the following reasons: - It rewards participation in battles (You still have to click to join a battle), if you-¦re a good or a bad player. - Retains the audience - Makes you login now and then - Gives no lifers and real lifers opportunity to get on the same "character level", within a bell curve of course. It-¦s an unfinished game, with several restrictions, and no impact on the universe (save for sporadic promotions and storyline advancements). This is but an empty shell of it-¦s possibilities, and because of this, a lot of people enter just to gain SP. Public matches are meaningless, corp battle are braging rights. No PC, no interaction with EVE (save pew pew from the sky), absolutely no reward whatsoever for playing this. (If you say that just for being a shooter it is a reward, i would rather play TF2) When those thing are implemented (May 6), i-¦ll bet with you a beer that the ammount of afkers will drop next to zero. Why? Because social interactions > game mechanics. There will be battles that mean something, and to be part of them, you-¦ll join a group. The group will want your participation, and will kill/expel you in case you don-¦t do your part. No need for game mechanics, a simple group behaviour will solve the issue. So, stop sharing a false information that this is an exploit, because it isn-¦t. It-¦s a candy for those eagerly waiting for the meaning to appear, because right now, it-¦s just a generic shooter with random people using crappy communication between them (how many don-¦t even turn the damn voice system on), shooting meaningless stuff that have no repercussion in the universe. (Save of course, for sporadic events).
Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 26	Posted - 2013.04.12 13:33:00 - [6] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: No one is trying to enforce a rule that doesn't exist, you are struggling and flailing at the issue when no one is pushing it. CCP has the right to punish people who abuse game mechanics because it is their game. AFKers are in in many cases costing the teammates they leave to fight their battles for them ISK by not backing them up, thus CCP has an excuse to do so if they so wish. And they could very well refund AUR spent on boosters used to abuse a mechanic. Do they have the drive to do all of this? I doubt it. Will they? I'd bet $20 on no. And yet you insist on insulting people who are supplying no ideas whatsoever to CCP, we are just discussing how hilarious it would be if they did. Insecure much? Note: And you are really going to bash Fiend for taking 2 minutes to respond? Do you think he's refreshing the page every 2 seconds to see if you've graced him with a response? You need to get a grip Edit: And some bacon. Or get a firm grip on some bacon. Mmmmm.... bacon.... Actually what I would find hilarious is how bad of a hit in players CCP would have if they did this. I dont know how they are doing right now but I do know that if they were to implement one of these suggestions (for the lulz) then this game would die. There are enough people that I see AFKing that CCP would take a huge hit in the population that plays this game. If you think the game is bleeding players now if they were to do this they would have stopped bleeding players by cutting an artery. I honestly dont care what other people think of me and I enjoy all the people who cry over AFKers. I do play the game but I also mix in AFK......why? Simple if you create a system where you level out the rewards despite an individuals effort in the game then the individual will stop trying so hard and will simply start doing only the minimum requirement to earn the same amount of reward. Its human nature. This is why socialism/communism systems always fail. They rely on everyone working as hard as they would normally work if they were to receive the fruits of their labor while at the same time giving them the same rewards as someone else who is much less skilled than they are. Silly bunny. Myth #3: Under socialism, there is no incentive to work Socialism rewards hard work, while under capitalism the richest people are the ones who do no work at all. In a socialist society, the working class controls the means of production and the fruits of its own labor and therefore has a real stake in the realization of its full capacity to produce. The main incentive to work under capitalism is the threat of being fired and starvation. Under socialism, a person is paid according to the work they do. Under capitalism, the least productive members of societyGÇöthe bankers and CEOsGÇögrow obscenely wealthy while working class people live paycheck to paycheck. Your analogy doesn-¦t refer to the afker, it would mean that the CEO of the corp, managing the PI, and the rewards of the mercs work, would be filthy rich, and you don-¦t get enough money from your work as a merc. Plus, you are forgetting all the other variables present. Why AFK? - Powergaming - Max reward/time - Boredom How to avoid AFK? - Powergaming (If you participate you get more SP than being AFK) - GIving interesting content to play with - Social response (Ban/Kick, Team Kill) May 6th will bring a lot of new things for people to play with, things that actually matter, and thing people will kill you for. Just try to be afk on a real corp match with a good contract at stake and the money of Planetary Interface on the table.
Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 26	Posted - 2013.04.12 14:58:00 - [7] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: Natu Nobilis wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: No one is trying to enforce a rule that doesn't exist, you are struggling and flailing at the issue when no one is pushing it. CCP has the right to punish people who abuse game mechanics because it is their game. AFKers are in in many cases costing the teammates they leave to fight their battles for them ISK by not backing them up, thus CCP has an excuse to do so if they so wish. And they could very well refund AUR spent on boosters used to abuse a mechanic. Do they have the drive to do all of this? I doubt it. Will they? I'd bet $20 on no. And yet you insist on insulting people who are supplying no ideas whatsoever to CCP, we are just discussing how hilarious it would be if they did. Insecure much? Note: And you are really going to bash Fiend for taking 2 minutes to respond? Do you think he's refreshing the page every 2 seconds to see if you've graced him with a response? You need to get a grip Edit: And some bacon. Or get a firm grip on some bacon. Mmmmm.... bacon.... Actually what I would find hilarious is how bad of a hit in players CCP would have if they did this. I dont know how they are doing right now but I do know that if they were to implement one of these suggestions (for the lulz) then this game would die. There are enough people that I see AFKing that CCP would take a huge hit in the population that plays this game. If you think the game is bleeding players now if they were to do this they would have stopped bleeding players by cutting an artery. I honestly dont care what other people think of me and I enjoy all the people who cry over AFKers. I do play the game but I also mix in AFK......why? Simple if you create a system where you level out the rewards despite an individuals effort in the game then the individual will stop trying so hard and will simply start doing only the minimum requirement to earn the same amount of reward. Its human nature. This is why socialism/communism systems always fail. They rely on everyone working as hard as they would normally work if they were to receive the fruits of their labor while at the same time giving them the same rewards as someone else who is much less skilled than they are. Silly bunny. Myth #3: Under socialism, there is no incentive to work Socialism rewards hard work, while under capitalism the richest people are the ones who do no work at all. In a socialist society, the working class controls the means of production and the fruits of its own labor and therefore has a real stake in the realization of its full capacity to produce. The main incentive to work under capitalism is the threat of being fired and starvation. Under socialism, a person is paid according to the work they do. Under capitalism, the least productive members of societyGÇöthe bankers and CEOsGÇögrow obscenely wealthy while working class people live paycheck to paycheck. Your analogy doesn-¦t refer to the afker, it would mean that the CEO of the corp, managing the PI, and the rewards of the mercs work, would be filthy rich, and you don-¦t get enough money from your work as a merc. Plus, you are forgetting all the other variables present. Why AFK? - Powergaming - Max reward/time - Boredom How to avoid AFK? - Powergaming (If you participate you get more SP than being AFK) - GIving interesting content to play with - Social response (Ban/Kick, Team Kill) May 6th will bring a lot of new things for people to play with, things that actually matter, and thing people will kill you for. Just try to be afk on a real corp match with a good contract at stake and the money of Planetary Interface on the table. LOL is all I can say to that....LOL I wrote a long post to reply to this and then realized......I am waisting my time. You have obviously been indoctrinated to believe that the rich are evil or somehow none of them worked to earn their money. I have relatives that would beg to differ with you on that but hey you can believe what you want. What I post here will obviously not change your mind. The best way of avoiding a discussion is to end it with your own conclusions. Give me 6 numbers from 1-60 please, since your magic crystal ball can predict the future and probably read minds too. You used a bad analogy to explain a behaviour that have nothing to do with the analogy. People work because they like to be productive and do thing they like to. People that continue to do something after retirement live happly, and people that abruptly stop doing things tend to wither and die sooner. You can check studies in Occupational Health Psychology and who know, try to see the world a little bit differently than what looks like a simplifying dichotomy. I don-¦t want to enter an argument over socio/economic systems, specially if you are trying to use your personal references to explain the whole.
Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 28	Posted - 2013.04.12 16:17:00 - [8] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: I dont know how they are doing right now but I do know that if they were to implement one of these suggestions (for the lulz) then this game would die. There are enough people that I see AFKing that CCP would take a huge hit in the population that plays this game. Cutting out the cancer and making an example of them would only serve to strengthen the growing community, since new players wouldn't have to watch people sitting around doing nothing being rewarded in an FPS (and it would also deter people from abusing game mechanics, if they knew that at any point, CCP could and would punish them for their actions) To the person who wrote me an essay on EVE, EVE isn't an FPS. What flies in EVE isn't always going to fly in DUST, different games are in fact different You read the first 4-5 paragraphs and assumed i was talking about EVE?
Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 28	Posted - 2013.04.12 16:25:00 - [9] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: I dont know how they are doing right now but I do know that if they were to implement one of these suggestions (for the lulz) then this game would die. There are enough people that I see AFKing that CCP would take a huge hit in the population that plays this game. Cutting out the cancer and making an example of them would only serve to strengthen the growing community, since new players wouldn't have to watch people sitting around doing nothing being rewarded in an FPS (and it would also deter people from abusing game mechanics, if they knew that at any point, CCP could and would punish them for their actions) To the person who wrote me an essay on EVE, EVE isn't an FPS. What flies in EVE isn't always going to fly in DUST, different games are in fact different You read the first 4-5 paragraphs and assumed i was talking about EVE?
Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 28	Posted - 2013.04.12 23:04:00 - [10] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Natu Nobilis wrote: You read the first 4-5 paragraphs and assumed i was talking about EVE? I actually only read the first 4-5 lines, still waking up Alright, I read it, sorry about that bro. I agree with basically everything, except that it isn't an exploit. People aren't going to be in PC and Corp matches 23/7, no matter how many goodies they give us. You-¦ve never been at alarm clock operations to save a tower or shoot a station =p DUST Fiend wrote: People who feel entitled to earning SP in DUST for having their PS3s on won't change their mentality in the long run. If the option to exploit the system remains, they will continue to do so. What i-¦m trying to say is that they *don-¦t need* to change their mentality, the other players will do this for them, be it by kicking them off the battle, or shooting them to death. The "problem" will be solved by the players, not by CCP =)

Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 28	Posted - 2013.04.12 23:10:00 - [11] - Quote In EVE, fleet commanders tend to kill their stupid teammates to serve as an example of what not to do in fleets. We-¦ll be seeing a lot of teamkilling and kicking of people in Dust when the option is available =p
Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 28	Posted - 2013.04.12 23:47:00 - [12] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Natu Nobilis wrote: In EVE, fleet commanders tend to kill their stupid teammates to serve as an example of what not to do in fleets. We-¦ll be seeing a lot of teamkilling and kicking of people in Dust when the option is available =p CCP has said it is unlikely that TKing will ever be put into pub matches back when we had a big debate about it a month ago. Which means..... no, the players wont be able to fix it. I meant at corp matches. Im not considering playing on pub ones, thr same way i dont fleet up with strangers in eve. Loooooots of room to be killed or messed up by strangers.
Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 28	Posted - 2013.04.12 23:56:00 - [13] - Quote ladwar wrote: Natu Nobilis wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Natu Nobilis wrote: In EVE, fleet commanders tend to kill their stupid teammates to serve as an example of what not to do in fleets. We-¦ll be seeing a lot of teamkilling and kicking of people in Dust when the option is available =p CCP has said it is unlikely that TKing will ever be put into pub matches back when we had a big debate about it a month ago. Which means..... no, the players wont be able to fix it. I meant at corp matches. Im not considering playing on pub ones, thr same way i dont fleet up with strangers in eve. Loooooots of room to be killed or messed up by strangers. you can do that now.. so this really doesn't apply to you at all does it? As of now, what can i do at this game that have any kind of impact in New Eden ? Answer: Nothing. Why am i supposed to care if all i can do is shoot people in the face? I-¦m waiting for May 6, then i-¦ll join my alliance Dust Corp, then i-¦ll do something other than shoot people, i-¦ll conquer stuff by shooting people. Whooooooooooooole difference.
Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 28	Posted - 2013.04.12 23:58:00 - [14] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Natu Nobilis wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Natu Nobilis wrote: In EVE, fleet commanders tend to kill their stupid teammates to serve as an example of what not to do in fleets. We-¦ll be seeing a lot of teamkilling and kicking of people in Dust when the option is available =p CCP has said it is unlikely that TKing will ever be put into pub matches back when we had a big debate about it a month ago. Which means..... no, the players wont be able to fix it. I meant at corp matches. Im not considering playing on pub ones, thr same way i dont fleet up with strangers in eve. Loooooots of room to be killed or messed up by strangers. Do you really expect people to AFK during corp matches when planets are on the line? If it happens, it'll only be the once. Also, do you really expect to invite strangers to fight for you in corp matches? That is exactly what i-¦ve been saying all the time! Pub matches doesn-¦t matter (for me at least), and corp matches won-¦t tolerate afk players. No problem to be solved.
Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 29	Posted - 2013.04.13 17:40:00 - [15] - Quote Well, wait and we shall see if the bahaviour is present once uprising goes live.
Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 57	Posted - 2013.04.18 01:23:00 - [16] - Quote Duo H Maxwell wrote: I just got my "afk listed" message. Oh nooooooooooo, whatever shall I do? There-¦s a mileage club. With 1000h accumulated, you get a luxury trip with exotic dancers and sansha pleasure masseurs to any planet you wish.