DUST Search - [CCP request] The real need to open ISK between Eve and Dust Corp and Alliance

BASSMEANT wrote:

OP

your clan is too small. you guys just don't have the muscle behind the huslte. it's that simple.

join a bigger clan and play PC
or basically camp out pube rooms and PvE for points, but you won't be seeing the REAL game.

this isn't a casual game:

putting clan tags on a group of casuals and calling it a "clan" is a surefire recipe for disaster.

everyone is gung ho for PC but nobody knows how it works.

odds are it's gonna be both time and manpower intensive so really unless you have hardcore full timers online AND have skilled players, not just morons you grabbed from local chat and threw tags on em, it ain't gonna happen for you.
thinking that an alliance is gonna get you in the game is just gonna alienate you from the others in the alliance when you guys lose. and you will lose. because you are going to play against folks who have both the players AND the skill base. and they are a team. not a "team".
you'll lose and your alliance will break up and youll pull your hair out trying to put it back together again.

join a bigger established clan and you'll do ok. maybe.

Peace
B


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Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1285	Posted - 2013.04.09 13:18:00 - [1] - Quote Again, you are missing on a ton of stuff you need to take into account. An alliance is NOT 4 teams of 4 players. That doesnt make any sense at all. Not for PC anyway. What you're offering, dust corp being able to appoint a temporary EVE Ceo is simply something you CANNOT do. What about skills linked to corp management ? What about cooltime between CEO and leaving ? Would that temp CEO need to leave its current corp before taking that role ? No, this is not doable... Worse, it's dumb even thinking about something like that.... Everyone will agree that dust needs to have Alliance tools built in and not have to rely on EVE characters to do the job. Everyone agrees that corps in an alliance should be able to contract battles to each other without using squad leader screwed up system, to exchange districts or clones. But even if we had all this. Creating an alliance has a cost that a small dust corp cannot afford. Getting back on the ISK topic..... Do you have any idea how much ISK lies in EVE ? How many ISK would flow directly into dust and kill the game ? Let me be straight with you mate. Before beta went public, it has been possible for a while on the test server. Result ? You were seeing craploads of proto everything, everywhere. It was a slaughter for anyone who didnt get its ISK supply coming from eve. And what would that change for you ? Even if you could send your money in EVE to buy geno packs, you would find the bigger corps and alliance having even more geno packs. Result would be the same. You miss the main element here : PC is not for every corp. PC is not for a bunch of friends starting dust and going in day one. Just like 0.0 in EVE isnt. As soon as there are player owned land, you enter the harsh reality of New Eden... Fighting without numbers just doesnt cut it. I explained it to you in a different place and you instantly got mad with classic "i know what i'm doing, i dont need lessons" "you dont want us to play" "WTF this, cronos that" and such. So what is the real problem ? How should YOU react ? It's like things dont work for you so they NEED to change ? Guess what : adapt or die. You have corporations in your alliance with 4 members ? Then merge them ! If you're an Alliance leader and you cant push those small unorganized corps to drop the idea of being a corp of their own in this situation, then you're not doing what needs to be done ! And the game isnt to blame for that... I can't believe what i just red...
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1285	Posted - 2013.04.09 13:43:00 - [2] - Quote BASSMEANT wrote: OP your clan is too small. you guys just don't have the muscle behind the huslte. it's that simple. join a bigger clan and play PC or basically camp out pube rooms and PvE for points, but you won't be seeing the REAL game. this isn't a casual game: putting clan tags on a group of casuals and calling it a "clan" is a surefire recipe for disaster. everyone is gung ho for PC but nobody knows how it works. odds are it's gonna be both time and manpower intensive so really unless you have hardcore full timers online AND have skilled players, not just morons you grabbed from local chat and threw tags on em, it ain't gonna happen for you. thinking that an alliance is gonna get you in the game is just gonna alienate you from the others in the alliance when you guys lose. and you will lose. because you are going to play against folks who have both the players AND the skill base. and they are a team. not a "team". you'll lose and your alliance will break up and youll pull your hair out trying to put it back together again. join a bigger established clan and you'll do ok. maybe. Peace B THANK YOU
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1286	Posted - 2013.04.09 15:21:00 - [3] - Quote Daedric Lothar wrote: I've got billions in EVE, I would appreciate isk transfers so I can run Proto all day every day and not even care about anything. "Clone Packs?" I'll take a couple hundred. "MCCs?" Yea give me some of those two. Hmm, wait a second, I am playing dust and I can make like 300k isk in 15-20 minutes. OR..... I could run an Incursion and make like 100M an hour or get lucky running radar and mag sites in WH and make like 800M an hour. Honestly, I don't know if Isk should EVER transfer, the difference of economies is just to big. There is no reason a dustie should ever need 100M let alone 1B+. Even your fully totally awesome fit Proto HAV being driver by your epic Proto suit awesome guy will never come close to the cost of a Eve Cruiser and nor should it. Why would I buy a tank and a proto suit when I could buy a ship the size of a small city and then just bomb your engagement zone back to the stone age. Agreed.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1291	Posted - 2013.04.09 20:30:00 - [4] - Quote vmlinuz78 wrote: So the way it is today is that only top 50 and big corp will be able to run PC. Perfect ? And it's a fact that we have to agree ? Now.. think about this : How many people prefer to play in smaller corp to have real members interaction instead being a 'number' in a big corp ? Do you think people who feel like a number in a very large corp enjoy them ? really ? (it's like big company, people generaly prefer act as someone in smaler company than be part of the mass in large one) So force people to be part of large corp to have the chance run in PC one day per month... This can do the same : kill the game. No ? You take the example of RL big corporations versus small corporations. Some people will prefer working in the small one. But the one with ambition and wanting to play an actual role on the big global market will go in big company. IRL, big company and small one dont play on the same scale. Same goes here. Anyway, i dont see why the will of some players to play in small corps is relevant with accessing PC. And being a 20-40 member corp isnt like you have hundreds of player that dont know each other. Yet it still gives you better chance to fight. Be realistic. A 4 men corp has nothing to do in PC. vmilinuz78 wrote: In Eve if smal corp want FW or Alliance with some others to run war, they can. Why in Dust it should be different ? 4 corps of average 4 players online at same time could do the deal. By the way, tax from/to EVE and Dust should be applied and isk transfert should have limit but be possible. I agree that finding the right balance is quite touchy. Eve corps have Dust wallet hidden today, so why ? If there is no isk interaction, ever, why build kind of interaction between Eve and Dust. And yes I agree that we hope on Eve to produce things for our Dust merc. Linuz No arguing with the alliance tool being needed. But hey beta dude. Which means that this first version of PC is also a BETA. Regarding ISK transfer, just refer to my previous post. When opened during beta people received tens of billions on their account in less than an hour.... Anyway, according to what devs said lately, it would appear they will open it first including a tax to balance dust and EVE value of ISK. Which means that you may, for example, see a rate such a 1 EVE ISK = 0.01 Dust ISK. 1 Billion would then be 10 million ISK. Do you think this will help your alliance ? No, it will again help the bigger ones. Just like any other future additions to PC or dust-eve link. The big groups will always have the upper hand. That's the harsh reality. If you want to defend small corps though. Fight so playing PC to try and hold even one district isnt so unbalanced compared to those who decide to attack. So that if you decide to gather 2-3 small corps to fight as one in PC, you'll get the chance to use all players, defend that one or two district and share the money with the tools you have now.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1291	Posted - 2013.04.09 23:21:00 - [5] - Quote Leither Yiltron wrote: Actually, you're stupid wrong about this one Caz. I've personally applied several of ROFL's Dust-centric corps to the alliance using one of my Eve characters. The only requirement is that the Eve character has at least Corporation Management level 1, so that it can take over the CEO position. There is no cool down time between receiving the CEO position and giving it back, though the Eve character will get stuck in the corp that was applied for 24 hours after having been CEO, since it held roles. My bad regarding the tricks jumping corps to corps and being given CEO right each time. Yet i was focused on him suggesting a built in mecanic. But overall, i still think making an alliance (1 Billion cost if i remember correctly) and then adding less than 10 members corps Dust side is not a good move ISK wise. Guess we'll see.