DUST Search - Cloaking is not coming on May 6

Tarquin Markel wrote:

Yani:

By "shimmer or blur," I don't mean something sparkly and bloom-enhanced. I mean something like the way invisibility works in, say, Skyrim-- an indistinct humanoid outline.

Sure, people are going to work out how to hunt for those, and fair enough, but there's probably not going to be anything there you can target with a sniper rifle (to pick an example at random).

(Yes, I've been a little frustrated trying to sneak around Manus Peak. Why do you ask?)

Yes, sharp-eyed people with assault rifles will be a problem, as they damn well should. No, I don't agree that this will reduce the cloak's usefulness below a critical level. If it does, CCP can always reduce the shimmer or blur.

As I think I said somewhere, balancing this thing is going to be a kittening pain.

Enough; I've been arguing this off and on literally all day, and I don't even want it in the game. This is just my best shot at a decent way to implement it. What say we give it a rest and see what CCP actually does with the silly thing?


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Yani Nabari One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 28	Posted - 2013.04.10 00:06:00 - [1] - Quote Tarquin Markel wrote: Xender17 wrote: Cloak+shotgun? Nay, sir! Summon not the overpowered heinousness that surely shall invoke the great nerf bat (whose wings darken the very sky). Personally, I'm hoping the cloak is potent and effective, but takes up the light weapon slot. Combine that with a fix or three to nova knives, and you've got yourself a practical ninja. Define potent and effective? As taking up the primary weapon slot would render it neither of those points in most players books. We'd laugh it right out of existence everywhere outside of random ambush pub matches.
Yani Nabari One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 28	Posted - 2013.04.10 01:03:00 - [2] - Quote Tarquin Markel wrote: Yani Nabari wrote: Define potent and effective? As taking up the primary weapon slot would render it neither of those points in most players books. We'd laugh it right out of existence everywhere outside of random ambush pub matches. Potent and effective: cloak is active whenever equipped, with little or no cooldown between uses. User is nigh on invisible when motionless, and visible only as a shimmer or blur when moving. Speed is not limited, nor are running, jumping, etc. Entering and leaving cloak are both silent. Electronic signature is, of course, unaffected, necessitating the use of dampening modules. So you give up a weapon that is actually going to be a benefit to you and aren't going to completely invisible at range. Not worth giving up a gun for, not by along shot. edit: I seem to be able to spot someone moving on screen at 500m off when only catching sight of a flash of their arm or head. a "shimmer" on screen when i know someone's there (and we'll ALL know when someone's cloaking eventually if the group is smart) isn't going to be all that hard to spot. A cloak won't stop a bullet in flight, it only makes osmone second guess whether it was a person there. Given that currently no cover is present to obscure sight, anything that moves that doesn't have that friendly blue pointer over top is getting a bullet into it's midsection ASAP. No reason to NOT put a bullet into anything that moves (unless it's a tank)
Yani Nabari One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 28	Posted - 2013.04.10 01:28:00 - [3] - Quote Tarquin Markel wrote: Yani: By "shimmer or blur," I don't mean something sparkly and bloom-enhanced. I mean something like the way invisibility works in, say, Skyrim-- an indistinct humanoid outline. Sure, people are going to work out how to hunt for those, and fair enough, but there's probably not going to be anything there you can target with a sniper rifle (to pick an example at random). (Yes, I've been a little frustrated trying to sneak around Manus Peak. Why do you ask?) Yes, sharp-eyed people with assault rifles will be a problem, as they damn well should. No, I don't agree that this will reduce the cloak's usefulness below a critical level. If it does, CCP can always reduce the shimmer or blur. As I think I said somewhere, balancing this thing is going to be a kittening pain. Enough; I've been arguing this off and on literally all day, and I don't even want it in the game. This is just my best shot at a decent way to implement it. What say we give it a rest and see what CCP actually does with the silly thing? Curious, why do you think a sniper wouldn't be able to see you yet a guy with an AR would, assuming they were looing at the same spot.... A player doens't need their equipment to register an enemy to take a shot, see movement that isn't tied to a friendly? Fire, kill, maim, destroy.
Yani Nabari One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 28	Posted - 2013.04.10 01:50:00 - [4] - Quote Unless something was actually done to make it so it didn't render outside a certain distance, it's likely it would be visible to anyone in the map that can see the spot. Harder to get a one shot kill, yes, but not impossible to land a couple rounds into the cloaked body.
Yani Nabari One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 28	Posted - 2013.04.10 02:33:00 - [5] - Quote I'm saying if you're visible at all, the trade off for a weapon isn't at all worth it. You're giving up an offensive tool for a defensive means that is rendered pointless with common sense and player cooperation.
Yani Nabari One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 28	Posted - 2013.04.10 14:51:00 - [6] - Quote Tarquin Markel wrote: Then you and I have very different standards for what makes a worthwhile trade. That's really all I have to say. I'm sorry I just see no reason to base a build around something that someone can counter by looking at you from 100+ meters away. If it can't stand on it's own outside of specific favorable circumstances it's not worth using.
Yani Nabari One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 28	Posted - 2013.04.10 16:15:00 - [7] - Quote Rarity in a game means it's usually not worth doing. edit: or it's inconsistent as kittens or heavily tied to random numbers.
Yani Nabari One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 28	Posted - 2013.04.10 17:11:00 - [8] - Quote The problem isn't that it's a niche role, it's that the niche isn't useful with the current game settings. The cqc assassin is about as useful as the knifing heavy or a sniper specializing in 30m or shorter sniping (with a charged sniper rifle). the James Bond stealth duelist would be good for little beyond laughs in any serious play.
Yani Nabari One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 29	Posted - 2013.04.16 02:58:00 - [9] - Quote ladwar wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Being a Logibro's going to be even more expensive. If cloaking ever comes out, best believe that Shotgun scout is coming for you first. last... most view the logi as the least combat effective don't forget some logi's tend to forget to save rezzing for AFTER enemies are neutralized. Saving Logi's for the end could net a few more WP.