| Pages: 1 :: [one page] |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Volgair
The Tritan Industries
259
   |
Posted - 2013.04.05 06:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
First, let us break the game into basic components compared to other games that have done something similar currently or in the recent past.
I will admit to my bias up front that I do not like COD or CSS they represent the lowest common denominator in FPS and gaming gaming in general. BF I feel is also a let down in terms of ground combat and pacing, but the team-objective based game play and destructible environments are a redeeming factor.
Ground Game-
Dust as it exists is most like BF and COD in the sense that character models move slowly, and health pools 1 on 1 allow fractions of seconds to be expected survival times. Fully leveled unmodified Basic AR, to fully leveled unmodified drop suit of any meta level. Scout .3sec, Assault .5sec, Logi .4sec, and Heavy .8sec. Assuming every shot hit. Not that combat is that fast in application, but it is fast. With most lasting 2 or 3 seconds. Unlike UT or Quake where depending on the weapon, exchanges between skilled players in most cases lasted upwards of 10 or 20 seconds.
(Before any one says the arcade feel to Unreal or Quake deviates from the games over sense of realism. Allow me to remind you, that we are genetically and mechanically modified super beings that change the housing of their consciousness at will. Your point is moot.)
The potential for this being a Roll based shooter like TF2 only better, has become poorly realized. Being instead replaced with suits that can fill any roll with a few minor trade offs and no bonus. That leads to the current game of big DPS and mobs being the only tactic in pubs, and even more unfortunately the only viable tactic in the "high end." The first team to gain an advantage of numbers usually wins the match. This is most apparent in Ambush but is no less true in Skirmish.
Hopefully the mob to win strategy and mentality will change with an increase to the size of maps and increase to player count. However i doubt it. Unless they greatly increase the value of logistics and dependency of DPS on specialized rolls... not to mention the aforementioned increase to survival time. A movement speed increase across the board (especially in the case of the scout) wouldn't hurt either.
Vehicle-
BF is once again most similar, this time however with a touch of EVE. The balance is generally considered poor reguardless of whom you ask. With HAV's being the most used, LAV and Drop Ship being considered mostly an expensive, unfortunate punch line.
A lot of the issues seem to stem from CCP wanting to make as many people happy as possible instead of embracing a niche. Then those many people wanting far to many different things. The COD guys tend to want more twitch, instant gratification, and the Ability to kill HAV's with small arms fire. All to many vehicle dedicated guys regardless of their back ground seem to want to be unchallenged with unmitigated dominance of the field.
Again the balance is just not there... What is the balance? As before, team play. As in needing those around you to do the correct thing for success and vice versa. It should go with out saying yet the point was missed... In a team based game coordination and cooperation should be greater then the sum of the individual parts... Which currently as with the ground game is not the case.
Unit Customization-
I will start this by saying I do not care if novelty items ever exist. That is not what I meant by customization, fugg funny hats and pink dropsuits.
The fitting wheel is honestly the best and most unique part of DUST, not that this type of customization exclusive but it is the part with the most New Eden flair. Its value however is down played. More so with Dropsuits then Vehicles. Specific modules should determine the value, purpose and roll of what ever it is fitted to. right now the differences are noticeable, and certainly not negligible. However not in any sense of the term, roll changing.
Meta Game-
Currently the only meta game is persistent stats and currency... One could argue community, I would agree. I know that is supposed to change with PC on the sixth so i wont say much more on the subject..
What has DUST done well?-
- CCP has managed to hype this product up to epic levels. Most older players do not play this game, for this game. They play this game for what it could become. PC, RTS Command roll, etc etc... (ellipsis for emphasis... and a lol, for those of you still reading.)
- Reward or consequence by way of persistent measurable gain and loss.
What are DUST's short comings?- (with out getting into specifics...)
- Poor balance... As i stated before this is mostly due to pacing and the ignored need to incentive rolls other then that of "guy with gun" or "guy in tank."
- DUST is still a simple game for simple minds. Attached to another game that takes pride in the punishment of ignorance. Strategy by way of changing the purpose of pieces on the board should be paramount, instead of the mob mentality.
- No segregation of new and old. SP be dam*ed old players will in most cases wreck new players. Old players hate the new because they do stupid things with stunning regularity and awkward precision.
- Public games as the only way to gain SP and ISK.... Awful idea as it is currently implemented.
Have fun with this, I'm curious to see the response fall out. |
THEEDEATHNOTE
NECROMONGER'S
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 06:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
ty this is the smarter version of my post ccp are u stupid or just retared. mine was a rant but u say with much elegence what i would like to.
i am one of the players that plays the game for what it will become rather then the pile of buggy crap i get to play now.
+100 |
SoTa PoP
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
1957
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 06:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Having problems with zergs eh? Flux + HMG = your solution. Actually - heavies are always the answer - and bacon. |
Cat Merc
OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT
376
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 06:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
You compare Counter Strike to COD?
0/10. |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
261
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 06:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
The meta game is a bit deeper than described, and it stretches all the way to tactics. The game is not that simple, though it leans way too much towards frontline assault fights IMHO. |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
261
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 06:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
The strongest disagreement I have with op is the ask for segregation of old and new players. The opposite should be the goal, give newbies roles they can fill effectively on the battlefield. This should be a design starting point, because it has kept eve running for 10 years, a game with the worst skillpoint imbalance. |
Volgair
The Tritan Industries
260
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 08:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:You compare Counter Strike to COD?
0/10.
No, i compare a twitch lobby shooter to a twitch lobby shooter... take it or leave it, either way and with semantics aside they are very similar in structure. |
Volgair
The Tritan Industries
260
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 08:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:The strongest disagreement I have with op is the ask for segregation of old and new players. The opposite should be the goal, give newbies roles they can fill effectively on the battlefield. This should be a design starting point, because it has kept eve running for 10 years, a game with the worst skillpoint imbalance.
That is true i suppose, but i feel guilty that I am taking advantage of them. Not to mention angered that they fail to perform simple tasks. |
|
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
1253
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 08:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Moving from General Discussions to Feedback/Requests. |
|
Volgair
The Tritan Industries
261
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 10:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Fair enough, at least i have confirmation that this has had dev eyes on. |
|
|
Cat Merc
OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT
382
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 11:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
Volgair wrote:Cat Merc wrote:You compare Counter Strike to COD?
0/10. No, i compare a twitch lobby shooter to a twitch lobby shooter... take it or leave it, either way and with semantics aside they are very similar in structure.
Then you don't know how stuff works in CS.
That's the most shallow way to get into CS, but those skills won't win you a tourney, no matter how fast you are.
Unlike COD where as long as you know the map, those skills are all you need. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
3328
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 11:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
How would you fix or improve it all? |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
84
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 11:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Volgair wrote:Cat Merc wrote:You compare Counter Strike to COD?
0/10. No, i compare a twitch lobby shooter to a twitch lobby shooter... take it or leave it, either way and with semantics aside they are very similar in structure. Then you don't know how stuff works in CS. That's the most shallow way to get into CS, but those skills won't win you a tourney, no matter how fast you are. Unlike COD where as long as you know the map, those skills are all you need.
Your horse is so high I can see it from here! Enlighten me as to how CS is in any way GÇ£betterGÇ¥ than CoD. Personally I hate both.
On topic: I agree, mostly. The kill time you mentioned though...
If you're super close to someone then expect to be gunned down. However, taking down a well tanked opponent at a distance can be a challenge. It all really depends on the player's ability to get to cover. |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
234
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 13:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Volgair wrote: Then those many people wanting far to many different things. The COD guys tend to want more twitch, instant gratification, and the Ability to kill HAV's with small arms fire. All to many vehicle dedicated guys regardless of their back ground seem to want to be unchallenged with unmitigated dominance of the field.
This is my favorite part. He manages to completely mischaracterize literally the entire DUST 514 population. |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc
107
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 14:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
Yea, most Dust people will probably be BF people rather then COD people. However CS can go either way, especially for former CAL players. There was alot of strategic depth to CS, I know, I was once ranked 82nd in the world. I know thats a fairly sucky ranking, but for me I was pretty proud.
I would like to see most combat take place at range with alot more defining natural and structural cover. |
Scrubby13
The Tritan Industries
14
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 16:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Volgair, I mostly agree with you. However, I remember CCP saying that one of the big draws to Dust is the fact that you can use the fitting to create hybrid or unconventional fits. Things such as heavies with less armor but can run fast, or a sniper that doesn't die as soon as somebody sneezes in your direction. That is where, I think, the fitting system shines. The ability to create a fit that is completely personalized to you and your play style, whatever that might be. That, in my opinion, is why Dust doesn't have as prominent of a "class" system. It is there, but it is very fuzzy between what the classes are and they tend to blend together. But, I also think that everyone should fill a specific role on the battlefield, and once again that is one thing that the Devs are striving to accomplish with Dust. In the current state of the game however there isn't a prominent role that you need to fill, mostly because the matches are just random pub matches that dont have any real benefit or effect on the universe. Once PC is implemented though I think we will see much better combat, as well as much more meaningful conflicts. Which, in turn, should lead to more tactics being involved and therefore more specific roles. Though I do agree that the modules should make the fit more specialized, perhaps by using more emphasized drawbacks/benefits? |
Piercing Serenity
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
216
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
Volgair, what would your reponse be to the racial bonuses we are getting in Uprising? We are on the verge of having even more highly specialized roles. Mimmitar Logistic and heavy suits will be much more durable than they are now. The other racial bonuses give more options to respond to a suit like that. Gallente suits might use hit and run tactics to wear their targets down, while Caldari suits might try to keep enough sustained fire on their target to whittle their health down. To me, this will increase the "tactfulness" of DUST. You're thoughts? |
Godin Thekiller
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
32
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Piercing Serenity wrote:Volgair, what would your reponse be to the racial bonuses we are getting in Uprising? We are on the verge of having even more highly specialized roles. Mimmitar Logistic and heavy suits will be much more durable than they are now. The other racial bonuses give more options to respond to a suit like that. Gallente suits might use hit and run tactics to wear their targets down, while Caldari suits might try to keep enough sustained fire on their target to whittle their health down. To me, this will increase the "tactfulness" of DUST. You're thoughts?
This |
Hecarim Van Hohen
The Tritan Industries
17
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 18:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:[quote=Volgair] Then those many people wanting far to many different things. The COD guys tend to want more twitch, instant gratification, and the Ability to kill HAV's with small arms fire. All to many vehicle dedicated guys regardless of their back ground seem to want to be unchallenged with unmitigated dominance of the field.
This is my favorite part. He manages to completely mischaracterize literally the entire DUST 514 population.
Can be confused: figuratively |
Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
477
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 19:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Hype cannot keep a game afloat.
look at tribes ascend.
planetside 2 feels more organic than this. probably due to the fact team tactics makes sense rather than 4 dudes picking up the entire team with their proto gear.
the vehicles are also a screwed up mess. tanks costing hours of dust isk just to purchase and can be lost in seconds by a few dudes with a single mission of isk of weapons. meanwhile a real game puts you inside the vehicle as you spawn it and it can hold up against small arms fire and people are actually forced to work to get the AV or use base given equipment that take more than 10 shots to get rid of. but it still doesn't stop the enemy team from just plowing 30 tanks through your front door and eleminate everything. the cogs and designed usefulness of dust mercs are interchangeable. anyone can do anything with any suit. only slight deviations with equipment slots.
classes are blurry and eventually everyone just picks up a nanite injector, AR, and rep gun. they suddenly can do everything. without any penalty. something is wrong with something if the meta if you need this or you suck regardless of what position you play.
the meta and who you bring in your squads eventually just becomes the same. everyone carries their flavor of slingshots and then they all pack on a damage mod, shield mods, speed mods, stamina mods, nanite, rep and packed AV. if a tank is on the field they all switch to that target and eleminate it in seconds.
great diversity CCP |
|
|
Skihids
The Tritan Industries
1144
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 20:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
I'm not sure if its an inherent limitation of DUST's design or the match system.
Specialization requires teamwork, and pubs lack that by design. The largest unit of teamwork is a four man squad and there isn't much you can do with that. It's the main reason the DS has not realized its potential as a transport. The DS itself is mostly capable of basic transport, but lacking teamwork it will never be utilized. One role down.
Corp matches are 8v8 which also dramatically limits specialization. With such small numbers you can't get creative. You need so many assaults, so many logis, etc.
The game is being balanced based on these matches which means it is likely to become more homogenized. |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation
234
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 20:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
They can indeed be confused. But, since DUST's population does in fact only fit into the two categories presented (infantry and vehicle users) describing one as "twitchy COD types" and the other as wanting to be "unchallenged" is a mischaracterization of two populations which sum to the entire DUST 514 population.
Which makes it, in fact, the literal entirety of the population of DUST 514.
And really, if you're gonna call people out on the literally/figuratively thing at least use The Oatmeal.  |
J Lav
Lost-Legion
Orion Empire
48
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 22:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
I'll bite. What the game does well...
-Squad communication, I like the ability to place objectives without having to scream at my squad mates, and being rewarded for following through with the objectives.
-Flexibility in the fitting - I like that you can blend your own mixture, BUT I think this is way too open at the moment, and results in a homogenized gameplay of everyone playing the same way, with the same system of DPS, and I don't care what anyone says about player skill - skill points play the biggest role in how the game plays, and who wins.
-It's free and attracts a lot of players, so the games are full...
What I'd like to see improved - well as has been mentioned I don't believe in the current mindset and system that this game can be balanced. Its flaws are in the intrinsic build and mentality behind the too versatile fittings, the ridiculous gap in damage and hp between less experienced or uneducated sp investing. It's a cut-throat, unforgiving game that lacks fun-factor in a major way. It's a beast of micro-management, corps that act like 4 year olds, and maps with little variety that breeds only 1 effective tactic. Any squad variety you think exists is all smoke and mirrors. |
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 :: [one page] |