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Brasidas Kriegen
The Southern Legion
RISE of LEGION
2
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Posted - 2013.04.03 01:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
Some of this may not be possible with coding etc, but I will just toss around some ideas anyway.
(Possibly something for low sec PC, or at least null.)
TL;DR - Warbarges should do stuff, and be destructible. Commanders?
I had a discussion with some alliance mates about orbitals last night, and the EVE strike vs Warbarge issue. At the moment because there is always access to OB without EVE support (even if EVE side is 'stronger') it can make the EVE side somewhat redundant, especially considering there is a greater chance to 'miss' with EVE support if the player waiting to OB isn't firing immediately resulting in some minor delay.
But removing the war barge OB means that DUST corps NEED capsuleers, and the games cannot work separately. But keeping war barge OB means that there is an OB strike that cant be countered.
So here is a suggestion - Warbarges in (insert space type here) are cloaked 24/7 UNTIL they are used in a battle. Whether this means that they have a small window of a few minutes after being used to be scanned down and attacked, or whether they decloak from beginning to end of a match is something to work on. Personally I think that a corp should decide if they are going to use warbarge support (assuming they own one) and if so then it is decloaked from beginning to end of a match. Perhaps it cannot be 'pointed' in the traditional sense, needing instead a bubble (so it would be safer in low than null). As soon as a match ends it would warp to a safe spot and cloak up, allowing a small window to finish the job, were you trying to destroy it.
In order to give DUST players a fighting chance in keeping their warbarge it could have a fitting window just like any other vehicles, and although not piloted, perhaps can be part of the skill tree and corp roles to allow someone to train skills relating to this vessel. Such mods could include repairers (shield and armour), resistance mods, plating, weapons (would probably have to be automated) and potentially other mods that can give bonuses to ground support (through OB damage mods etc).
This would allow a DUST merc corp to function without the help of EVE side support, although they are still better off to work with capsuleers. Also; people want DUST matches on ships. Rather than on a titan, this could be done via a warbarge. Perhaps an EVE-side mod would allow capsuleers to insert a cov ops assault onto a warbarge through some form of targeted salvo. These merc assaults could then be timed in the same way PC attacks are, allowing the defender to choose the time, or perhaps a time window with the attacker choosing the moment etc (basically a system that doesn't mean endless 'alarm clock' battles).
Another option would require the introduction of a commander; who perhaps can be stationed on the warbarge. I'm not sure what the goal is with this, if CCP even want to bring this in anymore, but I like the idea (one of my favourite things about BF2). This commander would be the one who chooses when to call in the OB strikes and where they go, he could deploy vehicles from corp assets (saving players paying for them individually) at certain locations, and/or drop in installations to support his team. He will be directing his squads and the battles through a top-down view map; perhaps the commander could have access to a remote drone that could be flown around the map? This could be visible/vulnerable when in use, and cloak up when deactivated (though if you see it cloak you will know where to shoot).
This commander could also be making use of the warbarge's systems; to engage repairers if needed, perhaps even being given an EVE style overview himself so that he can pick targets in space for ships weapons (though this might be too complicated). Finally this commander could use a scanning module to find and target an enemy warbarge (assuming their is one) to do a number of things, including some form of jamming their sensors etc (affecting the use of certain commander roles) which could be countered with other war barge mods etc etc, and finally to insert a boarding party onto the enemy vessel.
This means that again the games can function separately, but also gain from mutual support. One side could bring a warbarge geared at locking down/assaulting the enemy warbarge, with an EVE fleet to support them and fire their OB weapons. The other could bring a tanked up barge with heavy OB damage - though at risk of such jamming operations.
I would really like to see commanders make an appearance in DUST as well as the warbarge be a direct and visible link between the games. A lot of these ideas require heavy interaction which may be too much/difficult, but hopefully at least some of it is feasible. These warbarges would probably need to have some ridiculous amount of health, so that it is difficult but not impossible to take them out during the 20-odd minute timeframe, which would take a lot of work to implement. I guess in order to save that problem they could be voluntarily warped off by the commander, meaning they lose the benefits of the warbarge and he might have to command from an MCC.
Sorry for the wall of text; I had a lot to discuss.
Thoughts?
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slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
94
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Posted - 2013.04.03 01:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
interesting, but seems unfair on the dust side. I just don't trust AI turrets. Maybe, corps could put a reward out for any EVE player that defends the Warbarge. Might be interesting |
Valkreena Haederox
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
14
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Posted - 2013.04.03 01:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm just gonna point this one out, fighting on a Titan would be beyond impractical for Dust's scale. Even fighting on a standard CapShip would be beyond impractical. The largest ship in EVE that you could expect a standard 16x16, or even a 32x32 fight to take place on would be a Battlecruiser. Anything larger and you're talking about a honeycomb of corridors the size of a small city. Or a large city in a Titan's case.
Kind of off topic, it felt like it needed mentioning, based off of the comment about fighting on a Titan. |
Brasidas Kriegen
The Southern Legion
RISE of LEGION
2
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Posted - 2013.04.04 05:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Valkreena Haederox wrote:I'm just gonna point this one out, fighting on a Titan would be beyond impractical for Dust's scale. Even fighting on a standard CapShip would be beyond impractical. The largest ship in EVE that you could expect a standard 16x16, or even a 32x32 fight to take place on would be a Battlecruiser. Anything larger and you're talking about a honeycomb of corridors the size of a small city. Or a large city in a Titan's case.
Kind of off topic, it felt like it needed mentioning, based off of the comment about fighting on a Titan.
Yeah I absolutely agree, I mean to suggest the warbarge could allow these spaceship battles, where the Titan (or any EVE vessel) would be impractical at best. Beyond the scale EVE fleet fights rarely last long enough to make a DUST match worthwhile, and however much I want the interaction between the two to be strong and relevant, I think a console shooter match allowing an EVE player's vessel to be stolen/destroyed is probably pushing it (unless said EVE player has already committed to that conflict eg. OB strikes and return fire).
AI turrets are a problem, I was thinking of it more as a deterrent/support mechanism (such as POS guns). It would mean a small sub-cap fleet would find it hard to cause any significant damage to the warbarge. If you force EVE players to bring out the big guns then they are putting their shiny ships at risk, meaning another EVE alliance group might wish to escalate to caps and it goes on.
It also means that if a DUST corp was running without EVE support, not just anyone can take out their warbarge; it would need to be someone willing and capable of bringing such a force to bear to influence planetary conflicts.
Making that economically viable/worthwhile is an entirely different can of worms. |
Brasidas Kriegen
The Southern Legion
RISE of LEGION
5
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Posted - 2013.06.13 03:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
In the interest of shamelessly bumping my thread, here is a post I made on this thread repeated here.
In terms of PvE mission types Dust could take some of its concepts from warframe (if you dont know it, check it out basically a co-op MMOFPS) which has a decent variety of mission types and randomised maps. I want to see PvE as well, and I think it would be a comparatively easy way to expand game modes as it would require less balancing than the general 'instant battle' matches.
I think this coupled with a method of search (with filter) for matchmaking as opposed to just the 4 match types so that you can keep the matches full and keep the variety going without having to choose to change type.]method of search (with filter)[/url] for matchmaking as opposed to just the 4 match types so that you can keep the matches full and keep the variety going without having to choose to change type.
PvE on Non-Temperate Planets
I also think that in terms of PvE another aspect of Planetary conquest can come into this, as a way of incorporating the non-temperate planets. These could still have districts, and each district could have multiple 'instances' which could be sort of smaller 'regions' within it. There could be a hub for each district where players could build infrastructure. The instanced areas could give you a number of mission types involving pirates, drones and so on depending upon planet etc. Within the hub areas the infrastructure could include mining operations that would involve some outlay to set up NPC mining operations; these would create more PvE by requiring them to be defended every so often. The materials mined could be used to build Dust goods, and perhaps EVE Planetary Interaction on that district could be linked into this Dust gameplay (bonuses for linking, EVE-Dust production chains and so on).
Perhaps these hubs could be owned by NPC corporations that provide missions, which could begin as PvE but potentially become PvP (eg one squad is given a mission to extract a VIP, another to stop them etc). If NPC corporations owned and operated the hubs and players simply attached their own sections (perhaps limited number per hub) these could then be attacked by other players in a variety of missions for a variety of purposes. Capture, destruction, robbery, and so on.
Instead of a window of time each day these could be attacked at any time, but NPC defenses could be set up (although players could still join) so that players have defense if they cant make it in time etc. So again this becomes PvE/PvP.
If these player owned areas then had a limited number of upgrades it forces players to make tough decisions; one more mining colony or important defenses?
Getting to and from these planets
Bringing in something like my Idea for incorporating Warbarges into EVE could change the dynamics of this as well. More accessible planets like the barren and oceanic ones could have these NPC hubs and therefore allow corporations without temperate planets producing clones and without the income to produce those warbarges to get involved in this PvE/PvP. Other planets such as Lava and Plasma planets might prove more difficult, dangerous, and lucrative. So these might require a corporation to move a warbarge over above the planet and deploy an MCC before being able to set up any infrastructure; each MCC being in the command of a player. Rather than owning these districts these would be temporary operations.
Dangerous Planets, Dangerous Games
These could play out like a match of Battlezone 2 where it is a sort of RTS/FPS hybrid for the MCC commander. As these aren't going to be properly inhabited planets you would not have the same prevalence of NPCs as the others, but nevertheless there could still be other mining operations, roaming pirate gangs lured by the MCC and so on. Mining operations could perhaps be set up and the MCC move on; deploy a CRU and then a squad can deploy there to defend if the operation requires it.
And here is the best bit - as players roam around in their MCCs setting up these operations they might run into another players operation to attack, or even better; an MCC. Suddenly we have 2 opposing MCCs in the same zone and this match can be turned into a skirmish style game; scramble a team together and try and take down the opposing MCC! No redline, no neutral Null Cannons etc. Installations could be deployed from the Warbarge(or MCC?) including a limited number of null cannons (perhaps 2 each) to speed up the process.
Perhaps players should be allowed to retreat with their MCC intact, but perhaps taking some time (5 minutes?) from when the retreat is called so that there is time to try to take it out. Retreat would mean that the side that fled loses everything they have deployed; all the installations, all match salvage, any resources from mining and so on. Another option is that players have the option to retreat their MCC at the initial stage of the match, and if they choose not to then they are considered committed and fight to the end.
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Brasidas Kriegen
The Southern Legion
RISE of LEGION
5
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Posted - 2013.06.13 03:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Campaign Contracts
These ideas can be put into practice to varying degrees for all three areas of space, high, low and null (assuming Dust won't go to wormhole space). This could give meaning even to public matches. Consider this planet-wide PvE/PvP on a high security planet. Perhaps a player (or squad etc) could pick up a contract from an NPC corp to help with an operation on a certain planet. That campaign contract would take them through PvE (rogue drone infestation etc) through skirmish, ambush and so on. The difference would be that they would have a persistent goal in mind, such as attacking or defending a planet. The PvP matches would enter them in the queue for a match, but that match would essentially be created through their campaign. So those players who are just looking for instant gratification will just jump into a match, for them it is just another pub game. But for this squad that has just fought through several games to make it to this point, as part of this campaign, this match will have much more meaning. This will create possibilities for both sides to have players with part of a campaign contract on the line, which should increase the intensity of the game.
I think that Dust should keep the option open for people to play it just as a run-of-the-mill shooter. Sure they might get bored with it as playing it like that wonGÇÖt be very different from everything else on the market. They might leave, they might come back for a bit and leave again (and so on), because Dust is free there can always be people coming and going and not experiencing the depth of the game. But something like this contract idea would mean that they are going to still be an important part of the universe, even if they donGÇÖt know it.
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Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
248
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Posted - 2013.07.11 17:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Valkreena Haederox wrote:I'm just gonna point this one out, fighting on a Titan would be beyond impractical for Dust's scale. Even fighting on a standard CapShip would be beyond impractical. The largest ship in EVE that you could expect a standard 16x16, or even a 32x32 fight to take place on would be a Battlecruiser. Anything larger and you're talking about a honeycomb of corridors the size of a small city. Or a large city in a Titan's case.
Kind of off topic, it felt like it needed mentioning, based off of the comment about fighting on a Titan.
Ah, my son, but then there is the fact that you wouldn't have to control the ENTIRE Titan to render it defenseless.
Just Pod-Kill the Capsuleer in the Bridge/Pod Port/ Wherever the hell the pod goes.
Then it is a simple matter of, scuttle the boat, or Hack the Computers and shutdown the CRUs where the Enemy is coming from.
It would just Instance the Battle wherever the POD is, and the Surrounding area in the Titan would be littered with manual overrides for the Crew, and the like.
Hack Several Objectives, Unlock Room with Pod in it, Shoot/RE/Swarm/Forge/Destroy it in some way shape of form, and then hack the console to shut down the CRUs, or Scuttle it by setting all the Ammo to explode. |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
180
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Posted - 2013.07.11 18:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Valkreena Haederox wrote:I'm just gonna point this one out, fighting on a Titan would be beyond impractical for Dust's scale. Even fighting on a standard CapShip would be beyond impractical. The largest ship in EVE that you could expect a standard 16x16, or even a 32x32 fight to take place on would be a Battlecruiser. Anything larger and you're talking about a honeycomb of corridors the size of a small city. Or a large city in a Titan's case.
Kind of off topic, it felt like it needed mentioning, based off of the comment about fighting on a Titan.
Split it up then. Multiple battles in critical areas.
For example, you could have simultaneous battles in the engine room, shield generation area, main weapon systems control, the security hub, the bridge, etc..
Should one or more battles fail, one of the other teams from a successful battle can attack the failed battle with both sides having the same clone reserves as they did at the end of their previous battle. |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
320
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Posted - 2013.07.21 03:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bamp. |
Brasidas Kriegen
The Southern Legion
RISE of LEGION
6
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Posted - 2013.07.21 09:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Warbarges should do stuff. And exist, in space. I was originally excited by Dust as it claimed to have commanders etc. Please don't take 10 years to give us half of the promises made in the videos. |
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