2100 Angels wrote:Hey hydra, great spreadsheet once again, just one thing i've noticed; I can't seem to find the stats around hacking speed... any plans to put it in in the future?
If not, maybe you can help me with my calculations:
Based on the assumption that a point takes 10 seconds to hack, and the assumption that all relevant skills are Level 5:
In a Logistics mk.0 I get 25% reduction to hack time, and a further 25% reduction for having Systems Hacking V, totaling a 50% reduction to hack time.
This gives me an innate hacking speed of 5 (10*.5).
From here, I'm just wondering how to calculate the effect of a Complex Codebreaker. It gives a 25% reduction in hack time, and so im just wondering which figure I take to calculate the new time, the original 10 seconds or the new 5 seconds? This would yield 2.5 seconds or 3.75 seconds depending on which way is correct. From the way that weapon stats are calculated, I would guess the latter, but I just wanted to make sure.
Cheers mate
[Disclaimer: i am being distracted at work as i type this, so forgive mistakes]
I don't have any stats on hacking speed. I've seen one spreadsheet list it uniformly as 8... no idea where they got the data from. I don't want to speculate on the value.
I jumped in to give a quick answer.... but you raise an interesting point (although not really intending too
). The short answer is: i don't have an answer for you (but for different reasons than what you wrote).
I will try to explain and give my thoughts. From everything that we know, bonuses are multipliers. A 25% bonus is a 1+ 0.25 = 1.25 multiplier. Conversely, a 25% reduction is also a multiplier, but a diminishing one: 1+ -0.25 = 0.75.
We also know that skills bonuses and module bonuses (before stacking penalty) are all compounded together. So, two skills giving a bonus of 25% each, have a compound effect of 1.25 * 1.25 = 1.5625 or 56.25% (note that it's higher than a simple addition of two bonuses at 50%). We have plenty of data to support this, just look at effect of Dropsuit Core Upgrades and Dropsuit Electronics/Dropsuit Engineering. Compounded, the two skills have greater effect than simply adding the bonuses, we got the in-game fitting screen to show proof for it.
It is better to have 2 skills' bonuses effecting the same attribute, than 1 skill of the same quantity.
Now, when looking at reductions, two reductions of 25% have a compound effect of 0.75 * 0.75 = 0.5625 or 43.75% reduction. This is fine when you consider reductions as penalties, and your compounded penalty is lower. But when you consider the reduction as a bonus.... due to compounding you actually get a lower overall bonus 43.75% reduction bonus, vs 50% reduction bonus. This does have a safeguard effect that the value will never reach 0, which could be by design. But it is still very weird that you get a less overall benefit, which is opposite to what you get when you compound positive bonuses.
The effect of modules is further compounded together, so once again the overall effect is lower than if you would have just added the bonuses. Once again, if you didn't have this in-place, adding 3 Complex Codebreakers and Hacking skill at 5 would have resulted in 100% reduction, which CCP obviously didn't want, so it stands to reason that the compounding of reductions is intentional.
Just have to realize here:
it is better to have 1 skill's reduction affecting the same attribute, than 2 skills of the same quantityGetting back to your question: the module's effect is compounded together with the skills, so in your example, assuming 10 is the base value:
2 skills + 1 module = 10 * 0.75 * 0.75 * 0.75 = 4.21875 seconds
2 skills + 2 modules= 10 * 0.75 * 0.75 * 0.75 * 0.75 = 3.1640625 seconds
2 skills + 3 modules= 10 * 0.75 * 0.75 * 0.75 * 0.75 * 0.75 = 2.373046875 seconds
The problem is that the in-game fitting screen does not show a single attribute that is affected by reductions of skills and modules (besides speed affected by armor plate penalties, and i already list that as known issue in my tool). We have no way to verify these values.
Also, all of the above is completely moot if hacking speed behave like "speed", rather like "duration". So far we are assuming "hacking speed" is a "duration" of x seconds, and we apply reductions to it.
If it is actually "speed", like 10 "points" per second on a structure that has 100 "points", then a bonus to hacking speed would imply a bonus to this points amount, which will invert all the maths above. But like i said, we have no information on hacking speed and i don't want to speculate.
Sorry i didn't have time to write a shorter reply