DUST Search - Range gap between secondary and light weapons

Celeblhach wrote:

Jack McReady wrote:

lets not compare real life to a game and second yes actually I have shot a pistol in real life quite often Cool

and hitting a human sized target at 20m is easy and with some practice you can also hit a 1L bottle with a very high hit rate. also the effective range of pistols is related to the size and caliber stopping power cause you cant stabilize the small weapon and it has hard time penetrating body armor. regarding real life SMGs, the mp7, small calibre SMG with the size of a big pistol has an effective range of 200m.

and as already mention my concern is, that the range improvement for the skills invested into sharpshooter is marginal at best.

An MP7 has a range of 200m, not effective range of 200m. Trust me, shoot a guy wearing body armor at 200m, and you lose the stopping power to kill. You would need the target to be pretty much unarmored to do anything.

Besides that, I thought the scrambler pistol had a max range somewhere in the ballpark of 65m.

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Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 90	Posted - 2013.04.02 23:41:00 - [1] - Quote why is the range gap that huge? I have the second secondary sharpshooter skill almost maxed out and my SMG barely breaks 21m optimal range. You can throw grenades further out than that ingame and in real life the average 14 year old can throw rocks 25-30m away. isnt the range limitation a bit exaggerated?
Soldier of Mawat Amat Al'Mawat Militia 27	Posted - 2013.04.03 01:19:00 - [2] - Quote Well if pistols could hit people at 30m, then just imagine what a breach scrambler could do in capable hands.
Ulysses Knapse Nuevo Atlas Corporation 178	Posted - 2013.04.03 04:53:00 - [3] - Quote Soldier of Mawat wrote: Well if pistols could hit people at 30m, then just imagine what a breach scrambler could do in capable hands. Yes, more reason to give sidearms more range. I mean, for ****'s sake, it's a goddamn laser pistol. LASER.
KalOfTheRathi Talon Strike Force LTD 309	Posted - 2013.04.03 05:14:00 - [4] - Quote It is Not a Laser Pistol. The description clearly states the laser is only used to induce the plasma channel for Short Range, pin point damage to a target. Either way, the weapon platform is a hand held pistol that is not as stable as a rifle. Small differences with a short barrel make big errors the further down range the target is. Solving this from a Game Engine side with limited range is common industry practice.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 90	Posted - 2013.04.03 07:36:00 - [5] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: Small differences with a short barrel make big errors the further down range the target is. Solving this from a Game Engine side with limited range is common industry practice. sounds good but have you actually used the SMG and Scrambler pistol at ranges of 20m on regular basis? I have played alot of games with scrambler and SMG only and the accuracy is already a very limiting factor anyway. the SMG specifically creates a small "cone" of bullets which at that range results at a dps loss, there is no need to further reduce its damage with a short optimal range. a short barrel is actually not a big issue with modern small caliber weapons and the scrambler actually has higher optimal than the SMG if I am not mistaken. also my actual concern is the SP you put into sharpshooter skill. do you think that adding 5m to the optimal range would hurt? this would make the sharpshooter skill actually worth the SP. currently you get marginally improved range with sharpshooter skills maxed (about 6m with SMGs)
Celeblhach Goggles Inc. 10	Posted - 2013.04.03 07:58:00 - [6] - Quote Have you ever actually shot a pistol in real life? 25-30m is actually a very high range for a sidearm to reliably hit a man-sized target every time during the stress of live combat. In Texas, CHL tests have you shoot 50 rounds at a man sized target at 3m, 7m, and 15m and you don't even need 75% accuracy to pass. Also, for the SP at long ranges, plasma simply dissipates in the atmosphere. A laser could ionize the air up to a certain point but after that point the plasma just won't work (that's not saying anything about how ridiculously strong the laser would have to be). SMG's do have to deal with spread, even modern day SMG's. SMG's were made to fight at close range, such as indoors, and typically have an EFFECTIVE range of 25m, with 15m or less being ideal.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 344	Posted - 2013.04.03 08:16:00 - [7] - Quote Do you have a timer set to remind you to bring this up again every 2 or 3 weeks?
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 90	Posted - 2013.04.03 08:28:00 - [8] - Quote Celeblhach wrote: Have you ever actually shot a pistol in real life? 25-30m is actually a very high range for a sidearm to reliably hit a man-sized target every time during the stress of live combat. In Texas, CHL tests have you shoot 50 rounds at a man sized target at 3m, 7m, and 15m and you don't even need 75% accuracy to pass. Also, for the SP at long ranges, plasma simply dissipates in the atmosphere. A laser could ionize the air up to a certain point but after that point the plasma just won't work (that's not saying anything about how ridiculously strong the laser would have to be). SMG's do have to deal with spread, even modern day SMG's. SMG's were made to fight at close range, such as indoors, and typically have an EFFECTIVE range of 25m, with 15m or less being ideal. lets not compare real life to a game and second yes actually I have shot a pistol in real life quite often and hitting a human sized target at 20m is easy and with some practice you can also hit a 1L bottle with a very high hit rate. also the effective range of pistols is related to the size and caliber stopping power cause you cant stabilize the small weapon and it has hard time penetrating body armor. regarding real life SMGs, the mp7, small calibre SMG with the size of a big pistol has an effective range of 200m. and as already mention my concern is, that the range improvement for the skills invested into sharpshooter is marginal at best.
Mithridates VI Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 579	Posted - 2013.04.03 08:32:00 - [9] - Quote Sharpshooter, etc, are likely to function differently in the next build. Your issue sounds more like it's whether sharpshooter is worth it SP. Feedback: Jack doesn't think sharpshooter is worth the SP. Let's see if it's better in the next build and tell them off if it's not.
Celeblhach Goggles Inc. 12	Posted - 2013.04.03 12:45:00 - [10] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: lets not compare real life to a game and second yes actually I have shot a pistol in real life quite often and hitting a human sized target at 20m is easy and with some practice you can also hit a 1L bottle with a very high hit rate. also the effective range of pistols is related to the size and caliber stopping power cause you cant stabilize the small weapon and it has hard time penetrating body armor. regarding real life SMGs, the mp7, small calibre SMG with the size of a big pistol has an effective range of 200m. and as already mention my concern is, that the range improvement for the skills invested into sharpshooter is marginal at best. An MP7 has a range of 200m, not effective range of 200m. Trust me, shoot a guy wearing body armor at 200m, and you lose the stopping power to kill. You would need the target to be pretty much unarmored to do anything. Besides that, I thought the scrambler pistol had a max range somewhere in the ballpark of 65m.

Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 91	Posted - 2013.04.03 14:11:00 - [11] - Quote Celeblhach wrote: Jack McReady wrote: lets not compare real life to a game and second yes actually I have shot a pistol in real life quite often and hitting a human sized target at 20m is easy and with some practice you can also hit a 1L bottle with a very high hit rate. also the effective range of pistols is related to the size and caliber stopping power cause you cant stabilize the small weapon and it has hard time penetrating body armor. regarding real life SMGs, the mp7, small calibre SMG with the size of a big pistol has an effective range of 200m. and as already mention my concern is, that the range improvement for the skills invested into sharpshooter is marginal at best. An MP7 has a range of 200m, not effective range of 200m. Trust me, shoot a guy wearing body armor at 200m, and you lose the stopping power to kill. You would need the target to be pretty much unarmored to do anything. Besides that, I thought the scrambler pistol had a max range somewhere in the ballpark of 65m. self-appointed experts.... but the problem is that you are wrong :) the MP7 uses high velocity armor piercing rounds and can penetrate a crisat target at 300 meters. I know these things cause I got the hands on this toy during my compulsory military service in austria also you should not compare game to RL, I just mentiond it because he was asking. the scrambler pistol has 16 meter OPTIMAL range and MAX range of 68m. that just means that you will deal full damage up to 16 meter but deal less damage the further away the target is (and good luck hitting at higher ranges with the scrambler pistol ;) )
Celeblhach Goggles Inc. 16	Posted - 2013.04.03 15:47:00 - [12] - Quote Sorry. Never seen an MP7 kill someone outside of 150m. You can mess someone up at 200m, but it takes more than a few to actually kill them. I'll take your word for it though. Actually, you're probably right on penetrating crisat targets at 300m, given the 4.6xwhatever round (25mm or 30mm?) was made to penetrate armor. (How much remaining energy is left over at that distance?) I prefer my M4 anyways. Back to the game, 16m Optimal range is a bit low, I'll agree. The gun should typically be effective longer than it would be prudent to aim with it and 16m is more than manageable with the SP.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 91	Posted - 2013.04.03 19:31:00 - [13] - Quote Celeblhach wrote: EDIT: not sure what I was thinking... I said MP7 and thinking MP5 last night. MP5s are worse than MP7s in most regards... that explains alot :)


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