DUST Search - lag switch....

Ten-Sidhe wrote:

If the calculations are done server side, the switch won't work. If the server is dedicated, but each client does all the calculations locally the switch would work since it would just send all the packets at once and teleport around.

Client side calculation has less lag and easier on server hardware if any, lag switches work.
Server side calculation has more lag, but harder to cheat without hacking into the server.

Dust does to calculations on the server and overrides the client if there is a conflict between them, like the rubber banding back when lagging.

If there is a dedicated server, but client does calcs and server trusts data sent to it, lag switches sending packets all at once would allow tele-porting around and firing whole magazine of sniper shots at same time and other nonsense. Sad to hear Killzone 2 did it like this, picked it up used recently and haven't tried online play yet.

Peer to peer with a host player that is the server, if calcs are done server side only host can lag switch and if done client side all could use lag switch. Host could do all kinds of hacks to see through walls, lag switch to freeze enemy movement when aiming, ect.. I try avoiding games that use this system.

A lag switch in dust would make your shots not fire while it is on and all movement would rubberband back to starting point when it reconnected. Other players would see you standing still doing nothing, and their shots would register. When you turn lag switch off your client would find out about the damage you took and update your health.

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Tyrin Tonious Wraith Shadow Guards 8	Posted - 2013.04.01 03:14:00 - [31] - Quote People are funny, LMFAO, with a game like Dust, being server side and not host dedicated, lag-switches won't work and will either get you killed quickly or when server is counting "time out" time durring desync, you'll be kicked off the server, maybe even completely off of Tranquility. Good luck and I hope many a disconnections occur for you lag-switching users
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 447	Posted - 2013.04.01 03:20:00 - [32] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Altina McAlterson wrote: I know enough to understand what is being said but not enough to make declarative statements so don't think I"m trying to prove or disprove anything. But when you play aren't you looking at the game as the server sees it? So if you spam it with upload data won't that prevent it from updating your position causing you to be unable to move until the server catches up? EDIT: "As the server sees it" is horrible wording but it's the best I could do on so little sleep at the moment. When you lagswitch your stopping your internet from downloading and uploading packets. The packets are still there they are just not sent until you stop the lagswitch. So for example, if you start a lag switch and move across the map then start it again you'll be where you stopped it because when you disable it it sends all of these packets all at once. What I'm asking is if your client stops receiving data from the server why wouldn't you freeze in place? When I press forward does my character move and then send the new position to the server or does the console simply send the desired command and the server then moves my character forward? I was under the impression that the game itself is on the server and the PS3 just renders it? I'm sure it does a few other things, but you know what I mean.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2303	Posted - 2013.04.01 03:52:00 - [33] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: When you lagswitch your stopping your internet from downloading and uploading packets. The packets are still there they are just not sent until you stop the lagswitch. So for example, if you start a lag switch and move across the map then start it again you'll be where you stopped it because when you disable it it sends all of these packets all at once. What I'm asking is if your client stops receiving data from the server why wouldn't you freeze in place? When I press forward does my character move and then send the new position to the server or does the console simply send the desired command and the server then moves my character forward? I was under the impression that the game itself is on the server and the PS3 just renders it? I'm sure it does a few other things, but you know what I mean. If you use a lag switch, the server stops tracking what you're doing for the duration of it. Lag-switches that block data both ways disconnect you from the server really fast (except in a player-hosted game, in which case you have to be the host to get away with it, and sometimes even then it'll drop half your players). That means you have a VERY limited (less than a second, usually) window in which to actually do anything. If it's one that only blocks outgoing data, the benefit is almost entirely limited to use in a game with client-side tracking. DUST doesn't give you much - if any - benefit. In a game where client-side actually handles important stuff, when you activate the switch, it stops you moving according to the server. You activate it before stepping out into the open, then you walk out in front of the enemy, and according to the server, you're still behind the wall, so they don't see you. You shoot them, and you're still behind the wall, untouchable, and because the data isn't being sent, nobody takes any damage. Then, when the switch cuts you back in, all the data of what you did gets sent to the server, and the game tells everyone you shot them in the heads, then updates you to where your client says you were. Because DUST handles everything server-side, this doesn't work. Your client sends data, which is blocked by the lag-switch. The server tells you "you're here" based on the last location it saw you, and invalidates any actions you've supposedly taken up to that point while lag-switched. In a client-side game, you look like you're staying put for a few seconds, then all your actions happen in a rush like you have super-speed. On your screen, you walk out and murder everyone calmly and without needing to worry about them shooting back. In DUST, you look like you're staying put for a few seconds, then step out into the open and fire a few wild shots. On your screen, you step out, maybe get to line up and fire a shot, which registers as a blue shield flash, but doesn't deal any damage because the server wipes that supposed shot by saying "you're still over there" to the client, which resets you back to being behind the wall and in no position to shoot anyone, and then you try and step out again and mabe this time you don't even get a shot off before being thrown back to where the server last saw you.
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 362	Posted - 2013.04.01 04:33:00 - [34] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: A dedicated server is no different than a client that is "dedicated" to the server position in COD or Halo... Yes lag switches work in this game. Technically you can lag a dedicated server... But you need to host it to do it... Or hack it.[/quote] Killzone 2 had dedicated servers hosted by Sony, and anybody and their grandmother could use a lag switch on the game (granted they knew how to cut a wire and attach thus wire to a light switch). KZ2 had full blown lag switch capabilities too, flip the switch, run around, shoot some frozen people in the head, flip it back they all drop dead and you teleport across the map. I haven't tried lag switching in Dust, probably never will due to potential banning. But I can tell you, when my household bandwidth is taxed and I am playing Dust, the game is almost unplayable. Constantly rubber banding and getting stuck on objects, all blue-shields all the time, still getting hit while behind cover even though I have been in cover for several seconds, etc etc etc. While there has been several dubious kills on me in this game, I seriously doubt any lag switch is able to function in a positive way in Dust. Perhaps it is possible with 555 timers and shorting wires, but I'm certainly not going to try.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 439	Posted - 2013.04.01 07:38:00 - [35] - Quote If the calculations are done server side, the switch won't work. If the server is dedicated, but each client does all the calculations locally the switch would work since it would just send all the packets at once and teleport around. Client side calculation has less lag and easier on server hardware if any, lag switches work. Server side calculation has more lag, but harder to cheat without hacking into the server. Dust does to calculations on the server and overrides the client if there is a conflict between them, like the rubber banding back when lagging. If there is a dedicated server, but client does calcs and server trusts data sent to it, lag switches sending packets all at once would allow tele-porting around and firing whole magazine of sniper shots at same time and other nonsense. Sad to hear Killzone 2 did it like this, picked it up used recently and haven't tried online play yet. Peer to peer with a host player that is the server, if calcs are done server side only host can lag switch and if done client side all could use lag switch. Host could do all kinds of hacks to see through walls, lag switch to freeze enemy movement when aiming, ect.. I try avoiding games that use this system. A lag switch in dust would make your shots not fire while it is on and all movement would rubberband back to starting point when it reconnected. Other players would see you standing still doing nothing, and their shots would register. When you turn lag switch off your client would find out about the damage you took and update your health.
Spec Ops Cipher Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 55	Posted - 2013.04.01 09:37:00 - [36] - Quote Some people are correct on this page. Gj community! Ez mode for people who don't know networks: Server is king, you do what he says. Imagine your player is a remote control car, driving about happily until the remote cuts off, where it stops until you get new batteries. Every time you pressed a button since it stopped is ignored, and you continue from where you were.
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 365	Posted - 2013.04.01 11:17:00 - [37] - Quote Ten-Sidhe wrote: If the calculations are done server side, the switch won't work. If the server is dedicated, but each client does all the calculations locally the switch would work since it would just send all the packets at once and teleport around. Client side calculation has less lag and easier on server hardware if any, lag switches work. Server side calculation has more lag, but harder to cheat without hacking into the server. Dust does to calculations on the server and overrides the client if there is a conflict between them, like the rubber banding back when lagging. If there is a dedicated server, but client does calcs and server trusts data sent to it, lag switches sending packets all at once would allow tele-porting around and firing whole magazine of sniper shots at same time and other nonsense. Sad to hear Killzone 2 did it like this, picked it up used recently and haven't tried online play yet. Peer to peer with a host player that is the server, if calcs are done server side only host can lag switch and if done client side all could use lag switch. Host could do all kinds of hacks to see through walls, lag switch to freeze enemy movement when aiming, ect.. I try avoiding games that use this system. A lag switch in dust would make your shots not fire while it is on and all movement would rubberband back to starting point when it reconnected. Other players would see you standing still doing nothing, and their shots would register. When you turn lag switch off your client would find out about the damage you took and update your health. It was fixed in Killzone 3, but not sure if KZ2 still has the same vulnerability or not. Haven't played that game online for several years now (was one of the best online FPS games of its time though, CCP could learn a thing or two from KZ2's Warzone mode). Also, KZ2 and Dust were/are the only FPS online games on PS3 that I have played which allowed in-game music! I played KZ2 from release for quite a while, and surprisingly there was very few who realized such a vulnerability existed. Probably due to the majority of players coming from COD and not realizing lag switching worked (since it doesn't in COD unless you are host). But wow, lag switching in KZ2 was so easy, and using a few key techniques I was able to customize the lag. I could freeze other players for myself, while to them I was still moving normally. Which made stealth lag switching very easy to pull off. Only tip-off was the massive multi-kills I managed to get in a split second when I re-connected (think orbitals) . Could only pull off a 4-6 second lag window without being disconnected, but if timed right, I could do massive damage (frozen targets + headshots = win). Yes it was dirty rotten cheating, but as the saying goes... power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I had the ability to take out anybody I wanted when I wanted, and while I played normally 98% of the time and refrained as much as I could from using my power, if I got to my breaking point, then I would resort to dirty tactics to fulfill my revenge. No mercy.


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