DUST Search - [Uprising] Planetary Conquest

Maximus Stryker wrote:

Goric Rumis wrote:

I see your point.

Say Corp A is a major corp with lots of districts, and Corp B is a small corp with only one district but great players. Corp A fights Corp B, loses but manages to kill 150 clones, losing 200 clones in the process. Corp B regenerates 75 clones, but Corp A attacks again with similar results. Corp B only has 150 clones now, and Corp A attacks again out of a near-bottomless pool of clone reserves, having barely made a dent and able to attack from any district and reinforce from any district to any district so that attacking with 300 clones doesn't even put a district at much risk. Meanwhile Corp B, although full of strong fighters, must inevitably lose the district.

Even if Corp B had multiple districts full of clones, the continuous "locked" state brought about by Corp A's relentless attacks would prevent it from reinforcing to counter Corp A's ability to pull clones from any district it owns for the attack.

While this works to create continual fighting among large corps (who are able to attack each other in different places at the same time), it may result in a meaningless shift of landscape between established corps who can easily lock new corps (no matter how large or how skilled) out of establishing a foothold. Eventually you'd have to have enough districts that you could constantly attack and gain new districts, because other corps will always be taking your territory from you and there's nothing you can do about it.

We might be carrying the ball a little too far here, but it's a distinct possibility. Basically, how well this strategy works depends on Corp A's ability to kill more clones than Corp B receives from daily clone generation plus the "salvage" from Corp A's remaining clones after each battle. If battles really can be an hour long, it seems likely enough for Corp A to frequently be "cloned out," thereby giving no bonus clones to the defender, while still having enough time to kill well more than the max 100 clones a district can produce.

what about this scenario:

Corp A attacks Corp B and wins
Corp A has a window after the battle in which they are the only ones who can choose to continue to attack

Corp A attacks Corp B and loses
Corp A is now on a 48 hour lock out period from attacking that same district


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 26 post(s)
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2181	Posted - 2013.03.28 22:22:00 - [1] - Quote Just to clarify, is the attacker only "stealing" from the clones in production? So using that example with the PF and 300 clones, if the defender lost 270 clones, meaning there are only 30 left, the attacker DOESN'T take 50% of the survivors (15 clones), but 50% of the current cycle's production (50 clones). And obviously, the remaining clones to be produced are destroyed. Is that correct?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2211	Posted - 2013.03.29 23:49:00 - [2] - Quote Lets look at a few examples of how this new system will work, then... 1. Attacker buys Genolution Clone Pack (200 clones). 1.a) Attacker wins by MCC destruction. In this scenario, the attackers don't have a district to return to. They get their 50% of clones currently in production, but those are immediately sold back to Genolution. As a result, instead of having extra clones for a follow-up attack, the attackers simply get a bigger refund than they would have under the previous system, meaning there's a better chance that they'll be able to follow up with another attack. 1. b) Attacker wins by clone out. When the attacker wipes out the defenders, the district becomes theirs. However many clones they have remaining after the battle will be on-site to defend. This could mean the district is highly vulnerable if they get ground down low enough on their own clone count, although the requirement for them to have at least one production cycle before being attacked will probably balance this out to some degree. 1. c) Defender wins. If the defending team wins, they hold onto the district, produce clones, and steal half of any surviving clones on the attacker's side (after the 150 clone minimum). If there are only 100 attacking clones killed, this means that the 150 clone minimum comes into play. 50 clones are treated as surviving, and the defender recovers 25 clones from the attackers in addition to their normal clone production. In this example, the attacker should still be able to sell back the surviving clones from the attack, after the minimum loss and defender clone theft are accounted for. This leaves 25 clones for the attackers as well, which are sold to Genolution as essentially a partial refund of the attack cost. 2. Attacker attacks from their own district with 150 clones. 2. a) Attacker wins by MCC. Minimum 150 defender clones destroyed. 50% of clone production goes to attacker, remainder is lost. Using the PF example, this means an attacker losing less than 50 clones returns to their district with MORE clones than they took in the attack. If this would put their district over its clone limit, the excess clones are automatically sold off to Genolution. 2. b) Attacker wins by clone count. Because the attacker in this example brought only 150 clones, the survivors are likely to be less than if they had brought 200 and cloned the defenders out, so in this example there's a better chance of the territory being flipped again by someone else attacking straight after it's captured. 2. c) Defender wins. With the attacker bringing only the bare minimum clone count, 150 clones are destroyed regardless of how the attackers lose. The defenders still receive ISK awards for biomassed clones, but there are no survivors to claim. This benefits the attackers, but it also involves the risk mentioned in 2. b) where a victory may still leave the district vulnerable.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2386	Posted - 2013.04.05 10:35:00 - [3] - Quote Maximus Stryker wrote: Goric Rumis wrote: I see your point. Say Corp A is a major corp with lots of districts, and Corp B is a small corp with only one district but great players. Corp A fights Corp B, loses but manages to kill 150 clones, losing 200 clones in the process. Corp B regenerates 75 clones, but Corp A attacks again with similar results. Corp B only has 150 clones now, and Corp A attacks again out of a near-bottomless pool of clone reserves, having barely made a dent and able to attack from any district and reinforce from any district to any district so that attacking with 300 clones doesn't even put a district at much risk. Meanwhile Corp B, although full of strong fighters, must inevitably lose the district. Even if Corp B had multiple districts full of clones, the continuous "locked" state brought about by Corp A's relentless attacks would prevent it from reinforcing to counter Corp A's ability to pull clones from any district it owns for the attack. While this works to create continual fighting among large corps (who are able to attack each other in different places at the same time), it may result in a meaningless shift of landscape between established corps who can easily lock new corps (no matter how large or how skilled) out of establishing a foothold. Eventually you'd have to have enough districts that you could constantly attack and gain new districts, because other corps will always be taking your territory from you and there's nothing you can do about it. We might be carrying the ball a little too far here, but it's a distinct possibility. Basically, how well this strategy works depends on Corp A's ability to kill more clones than Corp B receives from daily clone generation plus the "salvage" from Corp A's remaining clones after each battle. If battles really can be an hour long, it seems likely enough for Corp A to frequently be "cloned out," thereby giving no bonus clones to the defender, while still having enough time to kill well more than the max 100 clones a district can produce. what about this scenario: Corp A attacks Corp B and wins Corp A has a window after the battle in which they are the only ones who can choose to continue to attack Corp A attacks Corp B and loses Corp A is now on a 48 hour lock out period from attacking that same district Is it confirmed that a Corp can repeat their attacks from a district other than the one they initially attacked from? Losing 200 clones, replenishing 100 at most, you come out 100 clones down. To press the attack, you're either emtying your district (200 clones) or reinforcing with 150 clones from another district, leaving THAT district open for attack by another Corp.