DUST Search - Are you for or against AFK SP farming while we wait on the next build?

Baal Omniscient wrote:

semperfi1999 wrote:

gbghg wrote:

People have the right to afk if they want to, however I also have the right to TK them and get them kicked from the game. so stuff balances out in the end.

I love this. Talk about your double standard. You use a glitch to kill your team who are going AFK because CCP made the SP gain tied to time spent in game. Now I dont care you can try this all you want. I have yet to be killed while AFKing because it would take a proto nade to kill me. On top of that if you hop up on the fence in the MCC then you cant kill me with a nade no matter how hard you try.

In the end I just find it humurous that people who claim that some people are exploiting the purposeful SP mechanic that CCP put into place will then use a glitch from something that CCP did not intend to kill people who are taking advantage of the intended SP mechanism. In the end they are exactly what they claim AFKers to be......

Eh, maybe. I see 3 key differences though.

1) 1 side uses abuses the SP system for their own gain, using the SP system in a way that wasn't intended. The other side works to inconvenience those who do so by using an unintended in game effect of over cooking a grenade. In ither words, motive is very different between the two and the motive is what anti-AFKers find so despicable. Using it to better yourself at the expense of your team.

2) As I was saying, motive. One side abuses a game mechanic in a way that it was never intended to be used for personal gain to the detriment of their team, the other side uses a bug in a game mechanic to punish those who are abusing a game mechanic in a way that it was never intended to be used to personal gain to the detriment of their team.

3) One side harms their teams chances of winning, the other side attempts to remove the inactive players so new (hopefully active) players can take their place.

So, other than.. you know... everything important..... you are totally right. Keep up the good work.


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semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 388	Posted - 2013.03.28 20:19:00 - [1] - Quote gbghg wrote: People have the right to afk if they want to, however I also have the right to TK them and get them kicked from the game. so stuff balances out in the end. I love this. Talk about your double standard. You use a glitch to kill your team who are going AFK because CCP made the SP gain tied to time spent in game. Now I dont care you can try this all you want. I have yet to be killed while AFKing because it would take a proto nade to kill me. On top of that if you hop up on the fence in the MCC then you cant kill me with a nade no matter how hard you try. In the end I just find it humurous that people who claim that some people are exploiting the purposeful SP mechanic that CCP put into place will then use a glitch from something that CCP did not intend to kill people who are taking advantage of the intended SP mechanism. In the end they are exactly what they claim AFKers to be......
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 388	Posted - 2013.03.28 20:31:00 - [2] - Quote Nomed Deeps wrote: I'll make it simple for the author: - Anybody who wants CCP to succeed where this game lasts for years as intended is against AFKing. - Anybody who only cares about their self staying ahead in SP in the short term is for AFKing. I say that with pure confidence as AFKers are ruining Skirmish play for other players who actually want to play the game. Those that have been with DUST a while will stick with it through this crap but new players will simply move on to the next game rather than endure the extensive AFKing going on. Your generalization is completely wrong though. The majority of people who AFK are the ones who told CCP not to implement the system for gaining SP that they did. They warned CCP that AFKing would be profitable and CCP did not listen (or chose not to listen). AFKers gain SP in the short time while not having to play every single minute of their weekly grind. Most AFKers want this game to succeed that why they are spending their time AFKing instead of just not playing at all. If CCP changed things so that SP gain i related to how well you perform you will not see AFK farmers anymore because it would not be profitable. Right now AFKing can gain you 65-70% of the normal amount of SP you would earn in a match. Well heck..........I can play with my kids and farm SP at the same time that way I can also spend most of my evening with my wife and I dont have to log on just to try to hit my cap. I still play plenty but the rewards for playing for pitiful while the rewards for not playing for basically the same. Essentially you are going after the wrong people. You need to go to CCP and tell them to fix is so that a good player that has a good game gets rewarded for their good play. Change the SP system to 5 SP per WP and 1 SP per second and AFKers will be a rare sight.
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 388	Posted - 2013.03.28 20:37:00 - [3] - Quote Nomed Deeps wrote: Quote: whats the point of getting all the sp and then not doing anything with it cause all you do is afk farm The point is they can accrue SP and ISK without risking any of their own gear in the process. That way, when they actually feel like playing, they'll have plenty of SP and ISK to come into a match with higher end gear and dominate. Then, they can go back and AFK. In the end, it's all gain for little loss yet those who do it do not think it an exploit. You call it an "exploit" however I fail to see where the AFKer has an unfair ability to do this. Everyone had this ability so how can it be an exploit. If you mean exploit in "not being used as intended" then you are wrong there too. CCP made it so that time in game is worth more than playing the game. AFKers are gaining SP as is intended in the same amounts as those who play the game. AFKing is not a glitch it was an intended consquence because CCP wanted the people who cant play well to get rewarded equally with those who can. As a result those who can play well may choose not to play well so that they can get the same benefit as those who cant play well. Its true socialism at its finest. When rewards are equal across the bar no matter your performance then why perform higher than the minimum standard necessary to gain that reward?
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 388	Posted - 2013.03.28 21:00:00 - [4] - Quote Nomed Deeps wrote: Quote: You're talking to people that take pub games like it's the most important thing in this World ever dude. Referring to your last BS AFKing excuse, I'm sure there are a lot of new players in CBs too, huh?. No, seriosuly, pub matches are all new players see. Thanks to AFKing compounding other problems, it's probably all some new players will ever see. If you care about it as much as I do then you need to tell CCP every chance you get that they need to change the SP system. Attacking the AFKers for gaining SP using the system that was intended does nothing more than split the community between pro AFKers and anti AFKers meanwhile CCP gets a free pass for (what we believe to be) a bad design. If they dont want to change the design then they want a socialistic system in place for SP gain and you cant complain when AFKers understand this and choose to meet only the minimum requirements rather than be tryhards in pub matches.
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 388	Posted - 2013.03.28 21:40:00 - [5] - Quote Skihids wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Nomed Deeps wrote: Quote: You're talking to people that take pub games like it's the most important thing in this World ever dude. Referring to your last BS AFKing excuse, I'm sure there are a lot of new players in CBs too, huh?. No, seriosuly, pub matches are all new players see. Thanks to AFKing compounding other problems, it's probably all some new players will ever see. If you care about it as much as I do then you need to tell CCP every chance you get that they need to change the SP system. Attacking the AFKers for gaining SP using the system that was intended does nothing more than split the community between pro AFKers and anti AFKers meanwhile CCP gets a free pass for (what we believe to be) a bad design. If they dont want to change the design then they want a socialistic system in place for SP gain and you cant complain when AFKers understand this and choose to meet only the minimum requirements rather than be tryhards in pub matches. CCP is fully aware of he problem and has chosen to implement a non-activity detector, so raising the issue with them serves no purpose. Whether or not the fix will be effective is another matter, but I'm sure they picked that as the lesser of two evils as a SP modification would have unwanted side effects. We just have to put up with it while we wait for the new build. Yea I know they are working on the non activity detector but like you said it wont work. Me and my rubberband will easily overcome this little problem. My main issue is more with the people who spend their time complaining about AFKers and arguing against AFKers rather than taking CCP to task. If people dont realize that this is the result of putting in place a socialistic system of gaining SP then those people need to go read up on the differences between socialism and capitalism.
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 394	Posted - 2013.03.29 17:37:00 - [6] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: My main issue is more with the people who spend their time complaining about AFKers and arguing against AFKers rather than taking CCP to task. If people dont realize that this is the result of putting in place a socialistic system of gaining SP then those people need to go read up on the differences between socialism and capitalism. A "socialistic system of gaining sp"? I think you're the one who needs to read up on the term. Socialism means common ownership. You seem to have it confused with the Fox News definition of "getting paid for nothing". A category which passive sp fits far better than AFK farming. No I am using the term socialism which is an overarching idea of which there are many different philosophies some of which the state has ownership of property or the citizens have common ownership of property. I am speaking on the aspect of socialism that uses any of various economic and political philosophies that support social equality and equal distribution of income (IE SP) based on contribution (time in game). Since the majority of SP is earned by time in game and they only threw a small bone to the good players to be able to earn a little more SP than horrible players this system encourages good players to do no better than the bad players. AFKing in the MCC is actually playing better than many players as you have not decreased the clone count wherease many bad players easily go 0-8 and thus not only did they not help their team but they ONLY hurt their team. Frankly I dont care if people AFK or not. CCP built the system with the idea that going 0/0/0 will still get you SP in the game so what if good players decide to take CCP up on their offer and go 0/0/0 while they do other things. VS the people who play the game and go 0/8/0 and gain the same amount of SP. Like I keep saying if you have issues bring them to CCP and tell them to change the system to reward good play. Otherwise all they are doing is rewarding time in game.
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 394	Posted - 2013.03.29 18:08:00 - [7] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: gbghg wrote: People have the right to afk if they want to, however I also have the right to TK them and get them kicked from the game. so stuff balances out in the end. I love this. Talk about your double standard. You use a glitch to kill your team who are going AFK because CCP made the SP gain tied to time spent in game. Now I dont care you can try this all you want. I have yet to be killed while AFKing because it would take a proto nade to kill me. On top of that if you hop up on the fence in the MCC then you cant kill me with a nade no matter how hard you try. In the end I just find it humurous that people who claim that some people are exploiting the purposeful SP mechanic that CCP put into place will then use a glitch from something that CCP did not intend to kill people who are taking advantage of the intended SP mechanism. In the end they are exactly what they claim AFKers to be...... Eh, maybe. I see 3 key differences though. 1) 1 side uses abuses the SP system for their own gain, using the SP system in a way that wasn't intended. The other side works to inconvenience those who do so by using an unintended in game effect of over cooking a grenade. In ither words, motive is very different between the two and the motive is what anti-AFKers find so despicable. Using it to better yourself at the expense of your team. 2) As I was saying, motive. One side abuses a game mechanic in a way that it was never intended to be used for personal gain to the detriment of their team, the other side uses a bug in a game mechanic to punish those who are abusing a game mechanic in a way that it was never intended to be used to personal gain to the detriment of their team. 3) One side harms their teams chances of winning, the other side attempts to remove the inactive players so new (hopefully active) players can take their place. So, other than.. you know... everything important..... you are totally right. Keep up the good work. 1) So only motive matters? If you steal from a bank for personal gain or because you want to give that money to a charity set up for a kid who needs a new kidney do you think morally there is a difference? If you do then I cant help you and we will have to agree to disagree because in both instances the person stealing is not only doing something illegal but also doing something morally reprehensible. 2) Actually it is using this system exactly as intended. The intention of CCP is that time in game gains you far more SP than what you do in the game. Using this mechanism bad players gain virtually the same amount of SP as good players. So good players choose not to play well (by AFKing) and get the same rewards as the bad player (who the system was designed for). 3) Players who play a whole game and go 0/8/0 harm their team more than AFKers do. So what should we do with all the players who have played a 20 minute game and only died and maybe collected 300 WP for that entire game? Should they also be removed from the game so that someone else can take their place who will be (hopefully) more up to the task of at least holding circle more frequently?
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 397	Posted - 2013.04.02 15:25:00 - [8] - Quote sharted pantaloon wrote: I'm trying to improve my farming efficiency. How long does it take you to cap three alts on one account? It takes 38,500 seconds to max out a character by farming.