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5377
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
4
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Posted - 2013.03.26 06:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Let's first look at the problem as it is now.
1) AFKers sit in redlines so that they can gain SP and isk for free without fighting.
Why is this a problem? Because contractually through their service to whatever faction they are fighting for, they need to provide service that involves fighting for the aforementioned cause. If this is not fulfilled, they are not entitled to payment. Clone status reports should be monitored via satelitte relay in order to observe how much payment is to be rendered to whom. As such payment for people who do not engage, should be withheld.
2)Redliners that sit and do not attempt to secure points, but rather redline snipe where they can headglitch safely while taking pot shots at people.
Why is this a problem? Because in service to the cause, their objective is very clear to complete the objective, as effectively as possible, but above all to complete the objective. If they redline, and their entire team is in the redline with them, then their whole team should be subject to a forfeiture of their isk for said match. No recompense for fittings lost.
Now, this is my perspective if things are not changed, but there are some options on how these things could be changed within the game core dynamics.
1) If all objectives have been taken, and there have been no attempts to reclaim the objectives within 5 minutes, the redline becomes open.
2) If people are inside the MCC just camping inside (poking their barrels out, to safely shoot or just playing jump over the barrier without falling) they should be auto ejected after a set timer. 2 minutes is more than sufficient time, imho. As the AI says, "All combantants must deploy to the battlefield."
3) If the match is a complete stomp, after completing the objectives and there is no resistance, perhaps a final objective could show up in the redline of the red dots base with drone defenses that would not be easy to take, but upon taking would remove the other team from the battlefield and signal victory. Just a thought as it could pose a real opportunity for a victory beyond MCC and clone count and should be rewarded by an extra 200 to 500 warpoints. |
semperfi1999
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
386
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Posted - 2013.03.26 13:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Interesting solution but a much easier one is to simply make it not rewarding to AFK in the MCC. To do that all they need to do is change the amount of SP you gain from WP from 1 SP per WP to 5 SP per WP and make 5 SP per sec to 1 SP per sec. That will stop virtually all AFKing. |
5377
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
6
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Posted - 2013.03.26 14:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
semperfi1999 wrote:Interesting solution but a much easier one is to simply make it not rewarding to AFK in the MCC. To do that all they need to do is change the amount of SP you gain from WP from 1 SP per WP to 5 SP per WP and make 5 SP per sec to 1 SP per sec. That will stop virtually all AFKing.
If you make it just in the MCC, people will just go to places that are safe in the redline to afk, unfortunately. The warpoint idea is interesting, but think all of the blueberries that can't pull their weight will be screaming, because it will take them forever to cap if they are able to. Something I'm totally in agreement with you about though is that something has got to change or else people aren't going to stop afk farming. |
calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F
Orion Empire
53
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Posted - 2013.03.26 14:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
5 minute friendly red zone timer perhaps?
get out of the red zone in 5 minutes or die seems fine to me or get rid of the red zone altogether and kick them out of the mcc after 2 minutes. |
5377
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
6
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Posted - 2013.03.26 15:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
calisk galern wrote:5 minute friendly red zone timer perhaps?
get out of the red zone in 5 minutes or die seems fine to me or get rid of the red zone altogether and kick them out of the mcc after 2 minutes.
I'd totally be okay with those settings. |
Disposable Meatbag
Inertial Defense Systems
14
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Posted - 2013.03.26 15:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
When redlined you may have no choice but hang in the red zone. Rushing a point only to die repeatedly starts to become insane. I will shoot it out with my AR or lasers from the redzone and if you're max sharpshooter you can shoot back  So a timer would not work but yes something should be done about the mcc campers. |
Kray Dytt
THE DOLLARS
36
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Posted - 2013.03.26 15:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
I've suggested somewhat similar fixes in separate threads recently:
AFK fix (for MCC AFK'ing)
Red Zone fix
Might be worth having a look at since a lot of the pro's and con's are discussed in those threads :) |
5377
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
6
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Posted - 2013.03.27 00:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Disposable Meatbag wrote:When redlined you may have no choice but hang in the red zone. Rushing a point only to die repeatedly starts to become insane. I will shoot it out with my AR or lasers from the redzone and if you're max sharpshooter you can shoot back So a timer would not work but yes something should be done about the mcc campers.
The job of a merc is not that of a carebear. Mercs are paid to accomplish objectives or to die trying. If they are trying to headglitch from outside zones but do not attempt to accomplish objectives then they are not fulfilling their contractual obligations.
Kray Dytt wrote:I've suggested somewhat similar fixes in separate threads recently:
AFK fix (for MCC AFK'ing)
Red Zone fix
Might be worth having a look at since a lot of the pro's and con's are discussed in those threads :).
I read your solutions.
SP counter from leaving MCC and auto defense turrets in redline. Your second is similar, but I think the first one would be easily countered. The proposed idle kick is also very easily countered. People are literally treating Dust514 as a chore with the SP gain, since they can do it without playing. Protesting or whatever they want to call it. They just find it easier to make isk and sp without having to do anything other than spawn, get to a safe point and watch TV or surf the internet. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
847
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Posted - 2013.03.27 01:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
5377 wrote:semperfi1999 wrote:Interesting solution but a much easier one is to simply make it not rewarding to AFK in the MCC. To do that all they need to do is change the amount of SP you gain from WP from 1 SP per WP to 5 SP per WP and make 5 SP per sec to 1 SP per sec. That will stop virtually all AFKing. If you make it just in the MCC, people will just go to places that are safe in the redline to afk, unfortunately. The warpoint idea is interesting, but think all of the blueberries that can't pull their weight will be screaming, because it will take them forever to cap if they are able to. Something I'm totally in agreement with you about though is that something has got to change or else people aren't going to stop afk farming.
I think what he's saying is invert the rewards system at it's base regardless of location.
If game wide 1 sec earns 1 SP and 1 WP earns 5 SP (the reverse of what it is now) then the incentive to AFK (in the MCC or elsewhere) is drastically diminished. As long as you earn more from just being in the match than from playing in the match there will be people who AFK. Even with timers and boot systems etc. people will still AFK because it's a risk free, low time investment way to hit cap. Really the solution to AFK farming is to gut the time based rewards, these are active skill points they're getting after all, shouldn't they be awarded for something that's more active than simply spawning into the match?
0.02 ISK
Cross
EDIT: Any solution to reline "tactics" needs to make sure it's not one sided. In other words it needs to address the whole problem, of people being camped within their redzone as well as people choosing to camp from within their redzone.
Any changes that are applied which address only one side/team of this dynamic will foment imbalance within the game. |
5377
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
6
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Posted - 2013.03.27 06:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:Any solution to reline "tactics" needs to make sure it's not one sided. In other words it needs to address the whole problem, of people being camped within their redzone as well as people choosing to camp from within their redzone.
Any changes that are applied which address only one side/team of this dynamic will foment imbalance within the game.
Maybe you are right about the spawn points being too predictable. They are anything but random. Fixing that or detecting a location a certain proximity away from the red dots could be used for spawns when all CRUs have been taken or if someone wants to randomly spawn.
As it is right now. I hear people say if they are losing they will sit in the MCC or hide in the redline, because they can't do anything. It's the worse thing to hear when they are on your squad. You have to wait till the end of the game to remove yourself or to kick them if you are squad leader. It's a growing epidemic: PTSD mercs. We need to a fix to that problem. |
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Kray Dytt
THE DOLLARS
36
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Posted - 2013.03.27 08:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
5377 wrote:
I read your solutions.
SP counter from leaving MCC and auto defense turrets in redline. Your second is similar, but I think the first one would be easily countered. The proposed idle kick is also very easily countered. People are literally treating Dust514 as a chore with the SP gain, since they can do it without playing. Protesting or whatever they want to call it. They just find it easier to make isk and sp without having to do anything other than spawn, get to a safe point and watch TV or surf the internet.
It is true that the SP counnter upon leaving the MCC is easily circumvented by in fact leaving the MCC :) but, I think that that, combined with changes to the red zone system, could make a big difference.
At the very least, it will not hurt anyone, at all. And it would make it at least a bit more difficult to leech SP/ISK.
Idle kick is not a solution, I agree. It won't change a thing, people will just rubber band their controllers...
A lot of people are leaning towards more rewards for WP/kills/etc, and less for just being there, but I think that will cause huge issues, from complaints about the wrong stats being used and different types of play being rewarded differently to active WP farming. Not to mention less experienced players getting shafted... |
Nariec
Carbon 7
1
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Posted - 2013.03.27 10:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
I agree with you on AFK farming, but I must defend the red line snipers. Personally I hate them, even since the beginning, but when I started doing the same thing, I found out that they provide a psychological fear to the enemy, when boots on the ground sees their life go down by half they start to retreat and hide, they see their buddies die from a sniper shot, they hide. It's another tactic and its also used by real snipers in the military. |
Kray Dytt
THE DOLLARS
36
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Posted - 2013.03.27 11:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nariec wrote:I agree with you on AFK farming, but I must defend the red line snipers. Personally I hate them, even since the beginning, but when I started doing the same thing, I found out that they provide a psychological fear to the enemy, when boots on the ground sees their life go down by half they start to retreat and hide, they see their buddies die from a sniper shot, they hide. It's another tactic and its also used by real snipers in the military.
That applies to snipers regardless of where they are sniping from though.
Red line sniping is using the red zone system outside it's intended function (which is to prevent MCC camping of pushed-back teams).
Currently some of the best sniping spots are in the red zone. Not because it it the red zone, but simply because of the location. I don't blame snipers for sitting in these spots, but I do blame CCP for creating a system that promotes/allows this. |
5377
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
6
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Posted - 2013.03.27 16:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
(please ignore this or delete) |
5377
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
6
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 16:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kray Dytt wrote:Nariec wrote:I agree with you on AFK farming, but I must defend the red line snipers. Personally I hate them, even since the beginning, but when I started doing the same thing, I found out that they provide a psychological fear to the enemy, when boots on the ground sees their life go down by half they start to retreat and hide, they see their buddies die from a sniper shot, they hide. It's another tactic and its also used by real snipers in the military. That applies to snipers regardless of where they are sniping from though. Red line sniping is using the red zone system outside it's intended function (which is to prevent MCC camping of pushed-back teams). Currently some of the best sniping spots are in the red zone. Not because it it the red zone, but simply because of the location. I don't blame snipers for sitting in these spots, but I do blame CCP for creating a system that promotes/allows this.
It's true like you both said, the popular sniping places are redline, but like Kray said it doesn't need to be. I agree about the sniper threat being an aspect of the game. It does keep you on your toes. I think it fits its purpose but snipers shouldn't be given a free location to attack from where no one can come close. It essentially means Tank > Sniper > everyone else. Tank can kill sniper and sniper can kill sniper, but everyone else has to run an LAV into the red line and try to kill the sniper within 20 seconds and get back out of the redline before it counts to zero. I'm curious how this dynamic even fits within the core idea of this game. What explanation from an Eve universe perspective can explain why there would be a 20 second timer and then you would suddenly die? It seems randomly thrown in there. |
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