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Natu Nobilis
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2013.03.25 11:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
I wasn-¦t sure if this belongs in the Feeback or General Discussion, but anyway.
The Battle for Caldari Prime was an awesome event.
I skipped work to participate, i played fierce battle with people that couldn-¦t care less about the storyline and with people that were spending whatever it took to win the match. It was fun as hell winning when i happened to be on the side that i actually wanted to be, and it was challenging to perform when i was on the opponents side. And this was in Dust, for i was one of the thousands people trying to get into Luminaire and stuck at the adjacent systems with a TiDi of 16% in EVE. All this while watching the live feed.
It was a lot of fun. Kudos.
However, it wasn-¦t an event without it-¦s cons, even though there were a whole lot of pros.
A lot of sites discussed already those aspects, but in need to reiterate one aspect that really frustrated me: The illusion of power.
It happened once, it happened twice, and what was a lone dot is now a line, and i hope this line doesn-¦t become a pattern.
It is very important to reiterate that i-¦m not questioning being powerless, for i love scripted games like a love a good book, i flow with the narrative and i enjoy the content.
There is absolutely no problem in not being able to influence the outcome of a series of events and be just a tiny little part of something bigger. Aeris died in a heartbraking scene, Kerrigan was left behind, Tassadar sacrificed himself, and those with many many more moments, were absolutely fantastic, even tough there was nothing we could do about them. We-¦ve had our share of events in EVE that came in a cinematic form and were equally awesome. I followed the writing reports of the Seyllin disaster passively, as the event unfolded and all i could do was watch.
So i say again, being powerless is not an issue.
The main issue is the illusion of power.
In the specific case of the Caldari Prime battle event, several things were frustrating:
- Thinking we could participate in the event, only to discover the cap limit of the system.
Yes, there are technical issues involved, yes it was a showcase for the game, but people will have fun even with a tidi at 10%, like the Asakai battle. Would we prefer no TiDi? Of course! But when fun calls, people don-¦t care about the limitations, people just have fun. And it wasn-¦t fun to be stuck in a gate waiting to join.
- Thinking ou participation in the event would man something
Making more and more and more npc-¦s appear in case things go wrong it-¦s a very cheap trick to advance a story. Yes, the Titan was in hostile territory, and normally it would have been destroyed a long time ago under normal circumstances, by a horde of ships instead of wave after wave. But no, you had to lead us into believing we could influence the outcome, and when we bought the idea and actually went there to influence (perhaps with an even bigger defense effort due to the crash leak) and start influencing it, there goes the cheap trick and boom, titan died. That-¦s classic "Im the Game Master and i don-¦t want the group going this way for i have created a cool story and you guys will play it". Anyone who played and pen and paper RPG knows the type.
Anyway, i wrote a lot already, and all i ask is that you don-¦t lead us into believing that we can make a difference when we can-¦t. There is absolutely no problem in not being able to make a difference, just please don-¦t make us believe we can.
I know there are a lot of moments we can influence, and EVE (hopefully Dust too) is an awesome open sandbox game where the players have a lot of space to make as we want and influence the universe. That-¦s why i play it since 2007. Just don-¦t use this as an excuse to advance your storyline by force, making null the effort of players that want to make a difference. Negating the essence of the game (choice and consequence) to the players is a shot in the foot, advancing the storyline without player intervention is normal perfectly acceptable narration tool.
Best regards Natu Nobilis |
Sylvana Nightwind
Expert Intervention Caldari State
144
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Posted - 2013.03.25 12:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
They are adding ability to choose sides in the next build so yeah no more random victories and wins for sides: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=633845#post633845 |
Natu Nobilis
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2013.03.25 12:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
I-¦m not sure we are talking about the same thing here mate.
Have you read the post or assumed i-¦m talking about the feature of picking sides that it-¦s widely known to be coming at the next build?
I-¦m talking about the illusion of being empowered when it is not the case. Picking sides has nothing to do with the text. |
Panther AIpha
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2013.03.25 12:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
I agree, is not interaction with the story in Dust 514. Is like half of the game is written, and the other half is "Imagination".
For most people, Dust 514 is just a FPS, that have " Mercenary " battles every now and again. |
steadyhand amarr
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
370
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Posted - 2013.03.25 13:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Some times for the sake of story u need a rail road a little bit the titain was going down regardless however the squids could have railled back and driven the gals off. As it stands the space battle was lost as people gave up maybe misunderstanding what was going on. However the planet still belongs to the squids and that we Did affect thus affected the story. As a gm I understand the need to force a little direction to stop my places from ridding around on pink bunny. As it's the players job to enjoy the story and gms job to deliver it without a player 4chaning it |
Natu Nobilis
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2013.03.25 13:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:Some times for the sake of story u need a rail road a little bit the titain was going down regardless however the squids could have railled back and driven the gals off. As it stands the space battle was lost as people gave up maybe misunderstanding what was going on. However the planet still belongs to the squids and that we Did affect thus affected the story. As a gm I understand the need to force a little direction to stop my places from ridding around on pink bunny. As it's the players job to enjoy the story and gms job to deliver it without a player 4chaning it
But do you understand the difference between "The Titan is going down, nothing you can do about it" and "You may have a shot at saving the Titan. Oh, you rolled a 20? Too bad, still went down."
I-¦ll reiterate as many times as i have to, i have no problem with scripted events. They are fun on their own.
My problem is for an event to be announced as "you can decide the outcome" instead of "you may participate on the unfold of the events".
One you are an active agent, the other you are a passive one.
And again, no problem on being either. Just don-¦t say you can go active when they force you passive. |
steadyhand amarr
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
370
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Posted - 2013.03.25 13:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Oh I see ur point I think then that in this case it was a poor choice of words or a misunderstanding of the event. As the dust guys would be affecting the story and the eve guys seemed to be taking part. I think the tag line of make Eve history would have been better :-) I do think though in this case the devs have been victims of English and it billion of ways of saying the same thing slightly diffrently |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1239
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Posted - 2013.03.25 13:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Event was way too long.
Final result is 8000 vs 7500 battles. How in hell can anyone get a feeling he actually did something ? I may have played 30 games.
Reminds me of MAG contracts where you could win 10 games in a row against the same faction and still see them win the contract..
Definitely not the way to go imo. |
Natu Nobilis
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2013.03.25 13:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:Oh I see ur point I think then that in this case it was a poor choice of words or a misunderstanding of the event. As the dust guys would be affecting the story and the eve guys seemed to be taking part. I think the tag line of make Eve history would have been better :-) I do think though in this case the devs have been victims of English and it billion of ways of saying the same thing slightly diffrently
It-¦s not a "lost in translation" mistake, for they have done this before i another live event. And if you look at the devblog it says like this:
" As weGÇÿve hinted at for a while, the in-game events weGÇÿve been running are building up to major events, and judging by the commotion this week, things are about to kick off. The battleground is set, the fight belongs to you.
If you want to participate in shaping EVE's history, you should monitor the news closely over the next few days and set aside your Friday afternoon (UTC)."
My whole point is simply for them to have a clear distinction between events that we can influence the outcome, and events where we simply participate on the narrative, for it is extremely frustrating to prepare yourself, gather friends to accomplish something, and have the effort become null because it wasn-¦t supposed to go that way. |
Natu Nobilis
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2013.03.25 13:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Event was way too long. Way too large. yeah the space part was fun, and the skyline was cool as hell. Except for the parts of the titan on the map that were not even solid..... Bullets passing through. And bugged, making people teleport themselves. Anyway, final result is 8000 vs 7500 battles. How in hell can anyone get a feeling he actually did something ? I may have played 30 games. Reminds me of MAG contracts where you could win 10 games in a row against the same faction and still see them win the contract.. Definitely not the way to go imo... Here are some thoughts:=> More communication should be done in game regarding events => Instant battle and should stay out of it. (corp battle as we know it is gone next build so not even a problem) => picking side is needed (obviously) => Give a real incentive in participating outside of just getting free items. Maybe people could only pick one side and be locked on it for the entire event and only get the reward linked to that faction IF it wins the event in the end.
At least the ground battles i still have hope (ha ha) that the story will be influenced by it, something like "Despite losing a Titan, Caldari ground forces managed to maintain control of the planet and secure the location. Amidst a planetary emergency, insurgent rebellions and a devastating moral blow, the Caldari have challenging times ahead as the events unfold"
My issue is with the way they announce things. If i can-¦t influence the outcome, don-¦t say i can influence the outcome, simple as that. I don-¦t even want to go to the extreme of kiling Lord British, just want to know if my presence means something for the game or not on an event.
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2130
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Posted - 2013.03.25 13:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Anyway, final result is 8000 vs 7500 battles. How in hell can anyone get a feeling he actually did something ? I may have played 30 games. If several thousand people each played 30 games, every one of them had as much impact as you.
An individual player may not be much more than a stone thrown into a pond, but if you're throwing enough stones in all at once, those ripples can turn into a pretty large wave by the time they hit the shore. |
Natu Nobilis
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2013.03.25 14:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Anyway, final result is 8000 vs 7500 battles. How in hell can anyone get a feeling he actually did something ? I may have played 30 games. If several thousand people each played 30 games, every one of them had as much impact as you. An individual player may not be much more than a stone thrown into a pond, but if you're throwing enough stones in all at once, those ripples can turn into a pretty large wave by the time they hit the shore.
When we first saw the flock, we were surrounded, caught in a spectacle of stimuli. Brilliant colors, dancing lights, beautiful cacophonies, wafting ambrosia. Those birds surrounded us, each one a different shape, an altered species, a new wonder. I tried to follow a single bird, but my efforts were futile: Transformation is natural to their existence. Imagine it: an undulating mass, a changing mob, all those beasts partaking in wonderful transmogrification.
These were our augurs, our deliverers, our saviors. Standing amidst the flock, we should have feared their glory; instead, we drew hope. This moment is the first time I understood what it meant to be Caldari: Divinity in the flock, delivery in flux, one being, many changes.
- Janto Sitarbe, The Legendary Flock
Tengu - Caldari T3 Cruiser |
GarryKE
Psygod9
62
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Posted - 2013.03.25 14:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
I was watching the live stream and I heard them mention the 1600 player limit on the system. The only thing I don't understand, which is probably a fault of mine if anything, is that I've seen more players in Jita and Amarr - and usually most of them are dirtying it up with each other at the station docking areas.... One question I do have though is could TiDi not have been enforced to allow a larger player cap or does CCP not have manual control over it, or does it not work that way?
Sure, it was a shame to hear that the Shiigeru was scripted to blow up and players couldn't target it, but if it hadn't, which let's be honest, Caldari would've won anyway, then we wouldn't have the ship peaking its ugly butt over the top of our maps now, and all that work in editing the maps would've been for nothing. |
Natu Nobilis
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2013.03.25 14:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
GarryKE wrote:I was watching the live stream and I heard them mention the 1600 player limit on the system. The only thing I don't understand, which is probably a fault of mine if anything, is that I've seen more players in Jita and Amarr - and usually most of them are dirtying it up with each other at the station docking areas.... One question I do have though is could TiDi not have been enforced to allow a larger player cap or does CCP not have manual control over it, or does it not work that way?
Sure, it was a shame to hear that the Shiigeru was scripted to blow up and players couldn't target it, but if it hadn't, which let's be honest, Caldari would've won anyway, then we wouldn't have the ship peaking its ugly butt over the top of our maps now, and all that work in editing the maps would've been for nothing.
You-¦re a company with a marketing operation going (Battle For Caldari Prime), you-¦ll want the world to see the action with the best light possibel (no lag, shiny explosions, epic unfolding of events). So they set a cap of player and reinforced the node so it could handle the combat properly. As a player, i want to be in an epic battle that have so much awesomeness going on that the server fries, so i understand the company decision =)
Jita Ammar and others are mainly market hubs, there-¦s combat present, but not every player in the system beating each other like Luminare was, that-¦s why it can handle more people.
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Natu Nobilis
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2013.03.25 15:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
New chronicle: After the fall |
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