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Deluxe Edition
Like a Boss.
68
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Posted - 2013.03.23 03:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP claimed that fast paced action is supposed to be at the forefront of this game, however i'm curios why ever map comes with a plethora of high perches for laser rifles, snipers, and mass driver to rain death. Many maps have high points with plenty of cover that allows a skilled laser rifle to hit all major spawn points on a map, combined with drop uplinks and nanohives Dust 514 is quickly becoming a game of set up camp and wait until the enemy gets bored and tries to push you out.
I am asking for the map designers at CCP to look at their maps and thank about all the advantages that are given to players with extreme range due to the amount of favorable terrain. |
Meeko Fent
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
18
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Posted - 2013.03.23 03:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
With the coming trees, many things will block the lasers LOS and snipers have to go somewhere, right? |
Monkxx
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
28
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Posted - 2013.03.23 05:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Poor level design and plain landscapes. Open battle locations with no in-door combat. Also size of the maps and lack of any method to deal with snipers except counter-sniping causes that camping and sniping is more profitable in term of KDR than actual Assaulting. |
Thranx1231
CowTek
95
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Posted - 2013.03.23 06:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
I got hit early tonight from a corner near the Red Zone. The Sniper has a very nice position, switched to Scout with Shotty, went searching, found, head shot from the back, shot uplink, shot hives and I felt good.
Why this is so hard for others do I still do not understand. |
pegasis prime
The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries
106
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 11:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thranx1231 wrote:I got hit early tonight from a corner near the Red Zone. The Sniper has a very nice position, switched to Scout with Shotty, went searching, found, head shot from the back, shot uplink, shot hives and I felt good.
Why this is so hard for others do I still do not understand.
Thank you . The lads and myself also gank the snipers in this manner. Try equiping remote explosived and wach them fly lol. The best and cheepest sniper hunting fit ive found is
Dragonfly dropsuit malitia shotgun blueprint. Remote explosives and a blueprint dhield recharger and regulator. Thisdis quite an effective sniper hunting fit . I normally run heavy but if I get sniped more thsn twice on a map out comes mr shot gun sniperhunting scout. And yes I will even die in the redline just to teache them thst they are not unreachsble. |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
756
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Posted - 2013.03.23 11:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
I agree to some extent, I understand the whole vertical map thing they have going on but they need to focus more on indoor areas and such.
Whilst the two posters above me have had an "easy" time with snipers, I'll point out that there are many locations your little shotgun scout won't be able to reach. I go sniping with a Forge Gun on these points after placing an uplink and nanohives on a high point that is not reachable unless you have a Dropship. From this point unless you're a sniper, you won't kill me. |
TheEnd762
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2013.03.23 11:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Stop trying to take away my gameplay experience just because you can't just run around blindly, spraying your AR all over the place, like a chicken with it's head cut off. Watch where you're going, move tactically, and HTFU. |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
757
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 11:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
TheEnd762 wrote:Stop trying to take away my gameplay experience just because you can't just run around blindly, spraying your AR all over the place, like a chicken with it's head cut off. Watch where you're going, move tactically, and HTFU.
I don't think its that. I think its that the maps are focused more on higher elevation and camp spots rather than focusing on inside the buildings that we fight on, I find it a fair complaint tbh. As a Vehicle user, more interior areas would be beneficial to the infantry trying to run from me and would be beneficial to them when trying to run from campers. |
pegasis prime
The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries
108
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 11:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:I agree to some extent, I understand the whole vertical map thing they have going on but they need to focus more on indoor areas and such.
Whilst the two posters above me have had an "easy" time with snipers, I'll point out that there are many locations your little shotgun scout won't be able to reach. I go sniping with a Forge Gun on these points after placing an uplink and nanohives on a high point that is not reachable unless you have a Dropship. From this point unless you're a sniper, you won't kill me.
I also run a pretty meaty miron and guess whst comes out if you do that . Haha I cant count how many times iv drooed of a squad of heavies ont the roof of a tall building to hmg them lol . That or ill bring out my gunlogi with the particle accelsrator and spam the sniper with the rail gun . And no its not allways easy but its a chalange and fun . There are many ways to skin a cat and if your an adaptable soldier youll learn to deal with almost any situation. |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
757
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 11:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:I agree to some extent, I understand the whole vertical map thing they have going on but they need to focus more on indoor areas and such.
Whilst the two posters above me have had an "easy" time with snipers, I'll point out that there are many locations your little shotgun scout won't be able to reach. I go sniping with a Forge Gun on these points after placing an uplink and nanohives on a high point that is not reachable unless you have a Dropship. From this point unless you're a sniper, you won't kill me. I also run a pretty meaty miron and guess whst comes out if you do that . Haha I cant count how many times iv drooed of a squad of heavies ont the roof of a tall building to hmg them lol . That or ill bring out my gunlogi with the particle accelsrator and spam the sniper with the rail gun . And no its not allways easy but its a chalange and fun . There are many ways to skin a cat and if your an adaptable soldier youll learn to deal with almost any situation.
True, but I've yet to be killed on that spot yet heh, Dropships usually die and I can see into the enemy redline so as they call them in I begin to shoot them down, just wait til I get that protoforge. |
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pegasis prime
The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries
108
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 11:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hell iv even ramed mr meode with my myron in a daft attempt to didtract him from my corp mates oncoming tank lol . Game ended with him on a skither of armour on his logi . I guess what im saying is were bit nuts at the shadow cavalry and will do almost anything yo try and tackle a problem on the battlefield |
pegasis prime
The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries
108
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 11:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:pegasis prime wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:I agree to some extent, I understand the whole vertical map thing they have going on but they need to focus more on indoor areas and such.
Whilst the two posters above me have had an "easy" time with snipers, I'll point out that there are many locations your little shotgun scout won't be able to reach. I go sniping with a Forge Gun on these points after placing an uplink and nanohives on a high point that is not reachable unless you have a Dropship. From this point unless you're a sniper, you won't kill me. I also run a pretty meaty miron and guess whst comes out if you do that . Haha I cant count how many times iv drooed of a squad of heavies ont the roof of a tall building to hmg them lol . That or ill bring out my gunlogi with the particle accelsrator and spam the sniper with the rail gun . And no its not allways easy but its a chalange and fun . There are many ways to skin a cat and if your an adaptable soldier youll learn to deal with almost any situation. True, but I've yet to be killed on that spot yet heh, Dropships usually die and I can see into the enemy redline so as they call them in I begin to shoot them down, just wait til I get that protoforge.
Oh dont get me wrong I think I posibky know the spot you mean . If I get there with my tier4 breech forge in the proto suit with 3 complex mods ha no bollas gets out lol lol . |
Charlotte O'Dell
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
62
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 13:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
Monkxx wrote:Poor level design and plain landscapes. Open battle locations with no in-door combat. Also size of the maps and lack of any method to deal with snipers except counter-sniping causes that camping and sniping is more profitable in term of KDR than actual Assaulting.
Go back to CoD bc we don't want you. Let me guess, you're a heavy who stomps newberries and doesn't want anyone to counter it. In this case, nerf all AV bc it counters my tank. |
Falco Bombardi
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
3
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 18:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
The thing about this game that makes it unique is the fact that death is to be avoided much more than in regular shooters due to owning and consequently losing your fit / ISK. Therefore area denial and pinning of enemy units is feasible as compared to CoD where somebody will do a 720 backflip gainer lobbing grenades and blast you with a tiger striped SMG.
In real battle people don't just charge in and run and gun everywhere. A firebase is set up to pin the enemy while an assault element moves onto the position. DUST allows for similar play, and long range engagements definitely have their place on the high-tech battlefields of the future.
If you find yourself being pinned and sniped too often, consider how you can negate the enemy's advantage using terrain and concentrated fire. If your squad can pull its act together and stream enough lead toward the enemy, you will usually get enough of a break in incoming fire to effect a change of position. Use cover and concealment to your advantage, concentrate your fire and move when needed. That ought to significantly reduce your sniper issues. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1740
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 18:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
I eat snipers for breakfast right after I fillet them. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
605
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 18:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
Note how it's been repeatedly stated that there isn't enough cover on most maps |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1741
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 19:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Note how it's been repeatedly stated that there isn't enough cover on most maps
Plenty of cover on the red zones. Oh wait, only the fast scouts can safely go though them.
The only map I do agree with you on is Manus Peak in Ambush (the infamous bowl map). In Skirmish, I can effectively access much of the map beyond the redline even on the Southwestern mountains where the MCC is parked and into that tall mountain in the Southeast called "witch mountain" as I so fondly call it. I can do the same for the northern areas as well. Even the north and south redlines in Line Harvest (skirmish) can be accessed by a fast scout. |
Negris Albedo
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
5
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Posted - 2013.03.23 19:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:I eat snipers for breakfast right after I fillet them. That's funny, I eat them for breakfast before I prepare to eat them. The flavor is in the regurgitation. |
bacon blaster
VENGEANCE FOR HIRE
4
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Posted - 2013.03.23 20:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:Hell iv even ramed mr meode with my myron in a daft attempt to didtract him from my corp mates oncoming tank lol . Game ended with him on a skither of armour on his logi . I guess what im saying is were bit nuts at the shadow cavalry and will do almost anything yo try and tackle a problem on the battlefield
You, sir, are a bonefied badass.
That said, snipers already are not the all powerful, all untouchable gods some people seem to think they are.
As a sniper, most of the places I get to are approachable by foot, with few exceptions. Even "Witch Mountain,"* as one guy was calling it, I get to mostly on foot. (Lav gets me part of the way up just for speed) It's actually too tall for a dropship.
Now, there are some places that are not reachable by foot, yes. Options for those are usually simply grenades and massdrivers, heavy snipers, and a few other simple things.
Soon, ccp is going to release new terrain features, like actual vegetation and not painted dirt. This will both help and harm snipers as it will give us new places to hide, but you will have more cover to deal with.
Also, at some point, ccp is going to release some new vehicles and vehicle mods, like an artillery turret for tanks. This will present another anti-sniper opportunities.
Lastly, if all else fails, an orbital is always a good choice for cleaning snipers off of a mountain.
But, like several people have said:
scout suit + shotgun/ar is a sniper's last nightmare. Throw in some profile dampners and the bastard will never see you coming. Also, if you are confident in your damage output, throw a precision scanner or two in your med slots to help light them up on your sensors.
As far as lasers go, there is nothing wrong with them. If you die from lasers, it means one of a few things: other people were shooting at you and the laser got lucky, you were standing still in the open like a stupid blueberry, you were moving slowly through open areas, or you were at the very tip of his range.
Lasers get bonuses from two things: distance and time active. The longer they are continuously shooting, the more damage they will do. Also, the longer the range they hit at, the more damage. So, if you are at a medium range, and they start hitting you with a laser, close the distance. Move side to side a bit, but close distance. Our damage will be small and pitiful, and we laser bros will die like children amongst bigger, angry children with bigger sticks.
So, stop with the butt hurt, learn to fight these people, and don't ***** when someonek |
Deluxe Edition
Like a Boss.
71
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 20:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
@Bacon, Try running up on a laser sitting on the strait pipe or bent pipe. With anything besides another laser rifle or a sniper rifle it is impossible to run up on a good laser or sniper camping these two spots as it is nothing but a long straight run to them. Many maps have locations like this where there is no cover to use to move up on a vigilant laser or sniper. Also I'm confused to how you beleive that a laser rifles damage is fine when at the end of their burn I die on first contact of the laser instantly.
Also for snipers to be able to instantly re spawn at their nest unless someone goes way out of their way to climb ladders and find their drop uplink (which is almost always invisible anyways) is a bit overpowered. Edpecially when it comes to locations that can only be reached via drop ships. I know a few players that sacrifice a 200k isk dropship in order to get to certain spots where they are invincible as a laser. |
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Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1743
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 20:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
Deluxe Edition wrote:@Bacon, Try running up on a laser sitting on the strait pipe or bent pipe. With anything besides another laser rifle or a sniper rifle it is impossible to run up on a good laser or sniper camping these two spots as it is nothing but a long straight run to them. Many maps have locations like this where there is no cover to use to move up on a vigilant laser or sniper. Also I'm confused to how you beleive that a laser rifles damage is fine when at the end of their burn I die on first contact of the laser instantly.
Actually, I have no problem at all getting around snipers. Of course, I tend to die sometimes to them, but their shots tend to give their position away and I would later respawn in a drop uplink that I setup in the mountains where I can quickly hunt the enemy while using the ridges to mask my profile.
As for those pipes, they are not entire full proof. 8 out of 10, the sniper will be perched near or on the base of the tower where the pipes connect and there is almost always a back entry assuming you are willing to dance with Lady Redline which then allows you instant access to kill them from behind (my specialty).
Even the snipers perched on the Southeastern corner of the Line Harvest (skirmish) map are not immune to a suicidal ninja. After all, I can already run over two football fields in 20 seconds and I only need one second to kill the sniper. It's a one-way trip through Lady Redline that will probably cost me a 200,000 ISK fit, but it's worth it.
The key to countering an effective sniper is to effectively understand the red zone and the extreme limits of the scout suit. Even snipers perched on structures in a red zone that are only accessible via ladder are not safe either. I have successfully killed such snipers in the past in this manner.*
My point: If I can reach the sniper in 20 seconds, he can be killed. Obstacles be damned.
EDIT:
* - except for the really tall structures. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
792
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 20:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:
* - except for the really tall structures.
cue the dropship |
Jathniel
G I A N T
108
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 20:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
Deluxe Edition wrote:@Bacon, Try running up on a laser sitting on the strait pipe or bent pipe. With anything besides another laser rifle or a sniper rifle it is impossible to run up on a good laser or sniper camping these two spots as it is nothing but a long straight run to them. Many maps have locations like this where there is no cover to use to move up on a vigilant laser or sniper. Also I'm confused to how you beleive that a laser rifles damage is fine when at the end of their burn I die on first contact of the laser instantly.
Also for snipers to be able to instantly re spawn at their nest unless someone goes way out of their way to climb ladders and find their drop uplink (which is almost always invisible anyways) is a bit overpowered. Edpecially when it comes to locations that can only be reached via drop ships. I know a few players that sacrifice a 200k isk dropship in order to get to certain spots where they are invincible as a laser.
Sorry OP, this is where I disagree with you.
A good laser or sniper won't let you run up to them if they can help it. The fact you said "run" indicates you are not thinking 'outside the CoD' box. (You have a free LAV to get around with.) Running on foot in open spaces is stupidity, and even many proto-assaults know better than to do this.
The fact that you realize you need to go out of your way to uproot an entrenched and almost-inaccessible sniper/laser sniper shows that your brain is working. It's up to you to measure the costs/rewards of bothering to go out of your way though.
Abandon your objective to deal with one pesky sniper? Do it if you think it's worth it, but you'll likely lose your objective to ground troops. If a sniper has provoked you to that point, then they have performed well, and REALLY good snipers will have a nasty surprise waiting on you if you actually bother to go out of your way to get them, and they see you coming. (the surprise could be anything: another friendly sniper watching their flank, proxis to blow up your LAV if you approach, AV grenades to blow up your dropship, or even lacing their nests with RE's.)
Something isn't overpowered just because you have to go out of your way to exploit it's weakness. Assuming you're playing as an Assault, you are playing the most adaptable class.... Now quit crying and adapt. (Dust is really breaking the kids in...) Try to play a sniper in this game without perches, nests, and camping spots... You'll see just how much of a disadvantage you actually have. |
Deluxe Edition
Like a Boss.
71
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 21:22:00 -
[24] - Quote
The point is they made to many of these positions, making the game now a race to ladders. Often times I wonder where my team is then look on top of table top and find 10 of my blueberries, and not a single red dot in the area. The map design with the perches isn't a problem because snipers/lasers are invincible, its that they are encouraged to a point where you have more snipers and lasers than anything else on your team. |
Jathniel
G I A N T
108
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 21:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Deluxe Edition wrote:The point is they made to many of these positions, making the game now a race to ladders. Often times I wonder where my team is then look on top of table top and find 10 of my blueberries, and not a single red dot in the area. The map design with the perches isn't a problem because snipers/lasers are invincible, its that they are encouraged to a point where you have more snipers and lasers than anything else on your team.
When you find 10 of your blue berries camping with snipers... Does your team win?
Not likely.
That's where the balance comes.
Snipers are not invincible, not by any means.
But I'm happy we give you that impression.
Pick up a sniper rifle, and look down the scope. You'll see one of us perched somewhere. Right then and there we can be killed. Also, if you notice us killing someone else. That means we're not looking at you, we have tunnel vision. That means you have free reign to flank us, again, if you think it's worth the trouble.
Nothing is really accomplished by killing a sniper. lol As you level up Field Mechanics, Shield Control, and spec up your Assault suit, you'll get to the point where us snipers are almost non-factors. Our weapons are so weak against proto-assaults, it's actually imbalanced unless we pull out a Thale's. lol
Experienced this last night in a friendly match against Synergy. Triple dmg mods with a proto-sniper (Ishukone) barely scraped the paint of their proto-assault suits. lol |
Creedair Talor
The Phoenix Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 01:57:00 -
[26] - Quote
Snipers are not that strong most of the time its the stupity of continuing without changing pattern that gets you killed. Got shot from the North find the nearest mould or object and hide and this running and jumping I have been seeing trust me it does not help once you jump your even more predictable. When I am assault and get hit first thing I do is start moving more again maybe find him fire in his direction and hit cover 4 out of 5 i survive and simply kill from cover. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2109
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 02:15:00 -
[27] - Quote
Played a Skirmish the other day where the enemy team was capturing points then moving into sniper holes with HMG Heavies guarding their Laser/Sniper guys.
A couple of Assaults using cover intelligently, and a couple of LAV guys occasionally rushing forward and ditching their "Impact" fittings before they explode, and my Scout suit had enough cover to get up the hill behind the enemy unnoticed. Our Snipers killed one Heavy while I took the other out, and now there are 3 guys who only have long-range weapons at the ready, and nothing to counter a Shotgunner who's already right in their face.
Also worth mentioning, your Dropsuit's Scan Precision determines how quickly you can light up enemy Uplinks, Nanohives, etc.
Before I started to invest in scanning skills, I was struggling to locate REs at objectives before hacking them, and unless I was running a Scout suit, I didn't see them until it was too late. It wasn't until this weekend - where I've been switching more often between Scout, Logi and Assault suits on an alt with varied SP investment - that I connected my spotting of them with the fact that I'd been running a Scout. So if you're running a suit with good Precision (Logi or Scout), you can see those Uplinks much easier. |
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