DUST Search - Possible idea to a voting process without AUR transaction

Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:

Captain-Awesome wrote:

Takahiro Kashuken wrote:

If it was down to a vote the corps with the largest amount of members would put forward a rep and get them voted in

Maybe allainces would also do this so they at least get one rep in

Problem is tho just because they have an allaince or corp backing them doesnt make them a good rep

TBH any reps should put forward a thread on what they stand for etc so we know what we are getting

Instead we could end up with a war council filled with the likes of Jenza, Zion, Contrabanjoe etc who are useless and will prob make the game worse by saying yes to bad ideas

Sorry, I forgot to add that any council members don't get announced, get an alternative character to use for council roles and put under strict NDA so there is no epeen stroking.

This is the most stupid idea you've had. Even worse than attempting to set up your own council then back peddling as fast as you could when called out over it.

Anyone who's on the WC need's to be accountable for their actions with the community and as much as i hate the idea of them having to give out their personal information so we can all get another Prencleeve Grothsmore or ZionShad abusing that information i think it's important that their username and reputation at least get's used. I'm not going to react any differently to a good idea if it's posted by Jenza or even ZionShad, it will get my full support and that person deserves to be acknowledged for their accomplishments while on the council too. in addition to their failures so they don't get reelected.


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Captain-Awesome Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 361	Posted - 2013.03.19 13:11:00 - [1] - Quote Step 1: Limit voting to a max number of accounts per PS3 / house hold with PS3 serial checking, IP filtering and other location based tools. If 2 PS3s match an IP, they get merged to represent 1 house hold, thus still keeping to the max PSN accounts viable Step 2: Check when the account was created if they create an account X amount of days before tokens are sent out, they are not eligible to vote Step 3: Check the total active SP earned within a variable time frame The "variable time frame" means that there is no set period of which the character is monitored, and thus grinding in a time period is useless. This also removes old accounts, dead accounts, accounts just created for voting or idle accounts. The amount of SP to check is really the "post" that needs to be moved into an acceptable position to help casual gamers, yet aid in the prevention of those seeking to break the voting process Step 4: The PSN users assigned to the accounts get 1 free token to vote via Email. These tokens have x amount of days to use by, can only be used once, contains the PSN ID so those codes can't be transferred and can only be used on that PSN. So we've filtered the household -> accounts -> dust users -> eligibility -> locking codes to those users I didn't want to include AUR transactions because this doesn't stop somebody buying multiple aur items on multiple accounts (CCP doesn't have access to card information) any suggestions / alterations welcome :)
Captain-Awesome Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 361	Posted - 2013.03.19 13:20:00 - [2] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Why do we need to talk about voting? The War Council will work with CCP to figure out if voting will be needed and how it will be run. And there won't be any voting happening for a long time anyway, so this is completely pointless. well - they'll be talking about a voting process, that's the purpose of the initial council, so I'm asking your opinions on a workable approach (or if you don't think it's possible)
Captain-Awesome Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 361	Posted - 2013.03.19 13:24:00 - [3] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: If it was down to a vote the corps with the largest amount of members would put forward a rep and get them voted in Maybe allainces would also do this so they at least get one rep in Problem is tho just because they have an allaince or corp backing them doesnt make them a good rep TBH any reps should put forward a thread on what they stand for etc so we know what we are getting Instead we could end up with a war council filled with the likes of Jenza, Zion, Contrabanjoe etc who are useless and will prob make the game worse by saying yes to bad ideas Sorry, I forgot to add that any council members don't get announced, get an alternative character to use for council roles and put under strict NDA so there is no epeen stroking.
Captain-Awesome Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 361	Posted - 2013.03.19 13:44:00 - [4] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Captain-Awesome wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: If it was down to a vote the corps with the largest amount of members would put forward a rep and get them voted in Maybe allainces would also do this so they at least get one rep in Problem is tho just because they have an allaince or corp backing them doesnt make them a good rep TBH any reps should put forward a thread on what they stand for etc so we know what we are getting Instead we could end up with a war council filled with the likes of Jenza, Zion, Contrabanjoe etc who are useless and will prob make the game worse by saying yes to bad ideas Sorry, I forgot to add that any council members don't get announced, get an alternative character to use for council roles and put under strict NDA so there is no epeen stroking. So instead of knowing bad players are elected they get anonymity and still get to put through bad ideas to CCP and thus the playerbase cannot accuse the war council for being ***** useless and able to vote out the retards so no one is accountable? It sounds even worse they are deemed useless on their actions in the role, not because of who they are in the game. If people keep their name, it's all about epeen stroking and politics, something that should be exempt from that. They are there to help us, and it will be the community that votes them, CCP has already said that's the "current" plan. If they move to a CCP elected group, people like you will just whine some more because it's just CCP spouting about trying to make a team for the community that they cherry picked. The primary objective here is player representation, whether they are ** at their role or not - the community put them in. All I gave was an idea on hot the voting process would work, not who, how, why we should vote for them -_- read the topic rather than troll other peoples ideas, maybe you should give your own.
Captain-Awesome Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 361	Posted - 2013.03.19 13:57:00 - [5] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Captain-Awesome wrote: Django Quik wrote: Why do we need to talk about voting? The War Council will work with CCP to figure out if voting will be needed and how it will be run. And there won't be any voting happening for a long time anyway, so this is completely pointless. well - they'll be talking about a voting process, that's the purpose of the initial council, so I'm asking your opinions on a workable approach (or if you don't think it's possible) They might not be talking about a voting process - they said they'll help figure out how the next council is chosen. This doesn't necessarily mean voting. I think the best way to do it is how it's being done with this first council. Democracy is just a nonsense way to make everyone feel included but when everyone gets a vote, the votes are skewed by the fact that at least half of voters have no idea about anything and just vote for who they like or who sounds nice or who their friends, family or background votes for. The War Council does not need to be democratic - it needs to be the best people for the job, not whoever can campaign best or is the most popular. yeah, one of the guys I was speaking to about this was saying the same thing, ultimately it came to "what's more important, community representation or ccp choosing the people they think would be best for the job"? even though the latter would be more effective, I think the community might still prefer the former (my personal opinion) beren, I initially thought PS Store, but changed my mind as it means in game dev work. A website feature gives more options (like a crest tool). credit cards are also changed, people have multiple, you can buy items with game cards etc so credit card won't always be available and thus that part of the system would be broken
Captain-Awesome Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 361	Posted - 2013.03.19 14:23:00 - [6] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Captain-Awesome wrote: yeah, one of the guys I was speaking to about this was saying the same thing, ultimately it came to "what's more important, community representation or ccp choosing the people they think would be best for the job"? even though the latter would be more effective, I think the community might still prefer the former (my personal opinion) Of course the community would prefer representation but that's a total misnomer because that's not really what the War Council is for. They are there to help CCP make the game better. The forums allow player the representation to put forward their thoughts on things and CCP will always have people working on that side of community interaction. The War Council is for knowledgeable and impartial players to analyse CCPs ideas and plans and advise them in certain areas. As players, they can give the kind of feedback that devs can't objectively give themselves and provide a different perspective. You know the initial CSM was created because of community relations issues? Have you not seen the threads of people complaining about not being heard? that CCP doesn't communicate enough with the players? There's 2 sides to the role, on the one side they help CCP with upcoming features, on the other side they help the community with their concerns. It's not just about getting cosy with CCP and getting insider information. It's a 2 way process, CCP feeds to them, they feed to CCP (admittedly mostly CCP > CSM) All we know is that the current council will: Quote: work closely with us in establishing a voting system, working with teams regarding upcoming features, and generally serving a similar role to the EVE Online CSM. so by the sounds of it - there will be a voting system, helping with features and acting like the current CSM. A lot of people will say many of the EVE CSM are crap.... but dolan also says that we need to be patient while we get this setup. Of course there will be lots of QQ, it's just starting. Django Quik wrote: These people would act almost as game analyst/designers - a games studio would never have someone elected to work as an analyst for them; they'd search and vet and select the person best for the job. Politics and popularity should be absolutely kept out of this. ageed on the politics and popularity part, but if it does go to a vote, that's pretty much what it would be and not really avoidable... from reading the forums, it looks like the voting path is how it's going to go
Captain-Awesome Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 361	Posted - 2013.03.19 14:37:00 - [7] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: [ Find holes in OP idea - calls it trolling Yea tough ** if you dont like it While you say name isnt important because of epeen and all that BS sometimes its all you have to go on, i dont see why DUST should be exempt from it we know EVE isnt but also we know what they stand for and what they have done along with who they are in game Politics will be in DUST and tbh it already is to an extent and it will grow as more gets added, your name is the 1st thing ppl will remember with your actions behind it Anonymity adds nothing to the process Also voting with alts will happen, proxies can and will be used, IP can be changed, ppl will go out of ther way to vote, if anything best bet is to let 1 accout per PSN vote, plus it has to be active in the past month earning say over 2mil SP or whatever limit making it so that you have to play with it for quite a while to earn the SP, some ppl will do this anyways No system is foolproof It's not all you have to go on. Don't judge people by their past, judge them by their performance in the role. If they do a bad job, CCP knows who is failing and can replace if needed. Knowing their name is of no relevance to you and can only mean you give them grief. Yes like EVE dust will hopefully be having lots of politics involved, but a players in game politics, should not be carried over to their council role. It's a seperate entity, out of public judgement unless they act in such that deems it in that role** IP can be changed, PS3 serial cannot, I said use PSN accounts to vote in my op, I also said active within a time frame with a certain SP amount. Agreed no system is foolproof, but we can limit the damage by making it as difficult to break as possible.
Captain-Awesome Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 361	Posted - 2013.03.19 15:09:00 - [8] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Okay, all points taken into consideration, maybe the War Council could be partially appointed and partially elected, a bit like the UK House of Commons and House of Lords. The elected members are there to represent the player community but the appointed members are there to make sure the elected members aren't douches and try to push silly or biased agendas through. The method of voting will always be a contentious issue though. Even doing it by activity or SP, someone could simply create loads of accounts (even on different PSN IDs) and play 1 game a week on each for weeks or months to make it look like they were all separate active accounts. Making it something you have to pay for would cause outrage because many people don't ever want to put any money whatsoever iinto this game and some other people have far too much real life money to throw around anyway, so will happily pay many times (using different credit cards or whatever) to ensure they get voted in. Trying to identify alts through locational data could easily be circumvented by using proxy servers. yeah... I'm glad I'm not on that council - some tough decisions ahead lol
Captain-Awesome Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 361	Posted - 2013.03.19 15:44:00 - [9] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: You must be new to the world Common knowledge that the electorate of any nation is fairly stupid and most times its like turkeys voting for xmas that's just in america.... where are you from out of curiosity? also hello caz, why u no irc!?
Captain-Awesome Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 361	Posted - 2013.03.19 16:24:00 - [10] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Captain-Awesome wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: You must be new to the world Common knowledge that the electorate of any nation is fairly stupid and most times its like turkeys voting for xmas that's just in america.... where are you from out of curiosity? also hello caz, why u no irc!? UK Our goverment is really bad, didnt even get voted in we should have gone back to the polls Either way any community is mostly made up of stuipd ppl and a few of them manage to make it into positions which effect things our governement is a coalition because the people couldn't vote. But for the most part they haven't done a bad job. Labour did a good job until they started doing stupid things like selling our gold for stupid prices, and then there was gordon brown who did nothing. But that's a hierarchical approach to the same problem, ours is more like chinas approach of a board. Yes there will be stupid people put in, if that's an issue, the best thing for you to do is become relevant and get noticed, and put yourself on that position.

Captain-Awesome Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 361	Posted - 2013.03.19 18:12:00 - [11] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: A coalition that no one voted for that has done things they said they wouldnt, the amount of u turns is more than a learner driver It will always be an issue but at the present moment this is CCPs call, maybe when they figure out a voting system and DUST has begun to stand on its legs and is more fleshed out then i may throw my hat into the ring but i doubt it unless consistantly the war council keeps on failing and being useless I wouldn't be surprised if it takes 9-10 CSMs before we get something we are happy with. This kind of thing is for the long haul sadly
Captain-Awesome Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 364	Posted - 2013.03.22 15:27:00 - [12] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Deadly Mitauchi wrote: Captain-Awesome wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: A coalition that no one voted for that has done things they said they wouldnt, the amount of u turns is more than a learner driver It will always be an issue but at the present moment this is CCPs call, maybe when they figure out a voting system and DUST has begun to stand on its legs and is more fleshed out then i may throw my hat into the ring but i doubt it unless consistantly the war council keeps on failing and being useless I wouldn't be surprised if it takes 9-10 CSMs before we get something we are happy with. This kind of thing is for the long haul sadly What if the council was voted in using SP? That would mean that every player would have to give back a certain amount of SP in order to be a registered voter. I know it may sound crazy but without some sort of system that makes players spend some sort of effort to actually vote then I fear like many of you the voting process will fail to begin with. What would the SP amount be? Why should a player be penalised for voting? this makes no sense, voting numbers are a problem in real life, in a game for people that don't care that much about? no chance. Maybe with isk, but then it wouldn't serve any meaninig to the logic behind the system, people earn tons of money and you can't cater to the elite. Voting is a right we all have. Removing that for "added security" is a politicians way of removing your civil liberties.
Captain-Awesome Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 364	Posted - 2013.03.23 01:07:00 - [13] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Captain-Awesome wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: If it was down to a vote the corps with the largest amount of members would put forward a rep and get them voted in Maybe allainces would also do this so they at least get one rep in Problem is tho just because they have an allaince or corp backing them doesnt make them a good rep TBH any reps should put forward a thread on what they stand for etc so we know what we are getting Instead we could end up with a war council filled with the likes of Jenza, Zion, Contrabanjoe etc who are useless and will prob make the game worse by saying yes to bad ideas Sorry, I forgot to add that any council members don't get announced, get an alternative character to use for council roles and put under strict NDA so there is no epeen stroking. This is the most stupid idea you've had. Even worse than attempting to set up your own council then back peddling as fast as you could when called out over it. Anyone who's on the WC need's to be accountable for their actions with the community and as much as i hate the idea of them having to give out their personal information so we can all get another Prencleeve Grothsmore or ZionShad abusing that information i think it's important that their username and reputation at least get's used. I'm not going to react any differently to a good idea if it's posted by Jenza or even ZionShad, it will get my full support and that person deserves to be acknowledged for their accomplishments while on the council too. in addition to their failures so they don't get reelected. @Cardrunock: Sadly, I've seen the past and the current CSM and it is full of epeen, there's a few decent ones but for the most half, have forced CCP to re-review their approach to this. Voting doesn't get high penetration from the community. There's also the fact that CCP knows the players character names etc, so if they community / they want to remove them, they can. not sure why you still think I was trying to setup "my own council" after explaining it to you 3 times, you keep repeating yourself :S I've only ever said the project is to support anyone who wanted to do something for dust. - CCP has chosen the WC, I'll be offering them my services too. That's all I've ever wanted to do. You said yourself you said it was just a bad name. I've never back pedled, everything is still there. The current EVE CSM only has a couple of decent members, the rest are only there for epeen and give nothing back. You yourself have said you will not be happy if certain people (shad) are elected. That's your opinion and you deserve that, CCP have their own opinion and those elected don't deserve to see the QQ **** the forums will come out with as a result. It's not to just to protect us from political epeen stroking, it's to protect them from QQing. yes being accountable for actions is an obvious process that happens as a players character is more present in the community. but their past has nothing to do with their current role. Their past is as relevant as CCP in game characters and their dev profiles. you don't know what they are, but you know their Dev profiles. That's all you need to know. Same with the war council. Their reputation is earned and gained while they are in their role, and only while in that role. Yeah sure, during the voting process, all you have is reputation, but after the votes have been cast - reputation is irrelevant, bias to players should be cast aside - nice, you can say you will give kudos / flame anyone if they say something you (dis)agree with, but you are one person in a community who will work like that, not everyone works like you, bias is rife here. with regards to SP - are you saying ACTIVE sp shouldn't be included, or ANY form of SP shouldn't be used in the calculation? because removing from the equation completely, lets people like beers and their 11 accounts flood the voting process. People can use vpns, have lots of psn accounts, but SP filtering is the only thing I've seen so far that removes fraud the best... open to suggestions though... I also agree, a half community half CCP selection would be good, they have their favourites, we have ours - those may differ so best to give best of both ;)
Captain-Awesome Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 364	Posted - 2013.03.23 01:13:00 - [14] - Quote Laheon wrote: Limit the vote to one per account. Any account without a character over 1mil SP, or 5k WP, is ineligible to vote. Simple. If you have under 1mil SP, chances are you don't know the game well enough to suggest improvements, or even know who you're voting for. The WP limit... Eliminates the chances of AFK farming for SP, in order to be eligible to vote. This makes sense :) I think maybe more than 1 million sp though because you start with circa 500k (been a while) and you don't really get a decent feel until around 1.5 mill +.... If CCP gives say a 2 week notive to vote? that's not enough time for anyone to grind the sp required... I think the war point idea works well... that or remove passive SP and only use active SP in the equation? I'll update the op now :)
Captain-Awesome Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 364	Posted - 2013.03.25 09:34:00 - [15] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: I don't think real names should be used, i think character names should be used, you're suggesting they don't use either which is stupid. well what's your reason to using original character names? accountability? I've already said that we should be judging their performance on their actions not their past. if for example protoman got the role, you can bet there would be a lot of prejudice to him. Who needs that kind of grief? what benefit would it give the community? CCP knows the link between those who are voted on, and the names they are using - why should we? if we have a complaint about a representative, say there's an issue with them. Don't make it about in game politics because that's not what they are setup to do (as much as I'd like it to be)