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X weapon rapid reload

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Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 83	Posted - 2013.03.18 21:16:00 - [1] - Quote What is the deal hear? Let's take AR or SMG for example: Time no modifier: 3 sec. Time max modifie: 2.25 sec. Is this really worth the several hundred thousand SP it takes to max skill weapon reload? And why are these skills diferent from the other weapons upgrade skills? All the other skills are 5% - 3%, while this particular one is 3% - 2%. WTF? I think that this skill needs a buff, set to the standard of the other handheld weapons upgrade skills. And I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be this way. As it is now I am really finding it difficult to justify skilling this. Does anyone have any info on Dev stance on this subject? Ok, discuss.
Winscar Shinobi Better Hide R Die 77	Posted - 2013.03.18 21:38:00 - [2] - Quote Yeah pointless skill is pointless. Needs a % increase OR (and a smarter idea) lower the multiplier.
Greasepalms Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 76	Posted - 2013.03.18 21:41:00 - [3] - Quote HMG says Hi.
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 83	Posted - 2013.03.18 21:42:00 - [4] - Quote Winscar Shinobi wrote: Yeah pointless skill is pointless. Needs a % increase OR (and a smarter idea) lower the multiplier. Sidearms is only x1 multiplier and is still too expensive IMO.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 167	Posted - 2013.03.18 21:42:00 - [5] - Quote You'd be surprised how much that 0.75 seconds helps in combat, and how often.
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 83	Posted - 2013.03.18 21:44:00 - [6] - Quote Greasepalms wrote: HMG says Hi. If it was 5% - 3%, at max skill that would put you at 6 sec. I have no problem with that.
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 474	Posted - 2013.03.18 21:45:00 - [7] - Quote It's more for the Swarm Launcher and Mass Driver users than AR guys, but they should definitely buff Sidearm Rapid Reload, as you have to practically max it out just to notice a difference.
Micheal JF IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 1	Posted - 2013.03.18 21:47:00 - [8] - Quote I see your point in that it seems expensive for only a small increase. But for an AR user against an AR user that is up to 250 damage before your opponent is done reloading. Yea I know you are not going to hit with all your rounds and max that 250 out but, you still get a good bit of damage in there before your opponent is done. This is also IMO a useful skill for logis since they only get one weapon anyway, so the faster the reload the better since they can't just switch to sidearm. Also this is not one of those you got to have skills, this falls into a wide not tall area of skilling up your character.
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 83	Posted - 2013.03.18 21:50:00 - [9] - Quote Knarf Black wrote: It's more for the Swarm Launcher and Mass Driver users than AR guys, but they should definitely buff Sidearm Rapid Reload, as you have to practically max it out just to notice a difference. It is oober expensive and ultimately ineffective regardless of what weapon you apply this to.
mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz 439	Posted - 2013.03.18 23:43:00 - [10] - Quote Winscar Shinobi wrote: Yeah pointless skill is pointless. Needs a % increase OR (and a smarter idea) lower the multiplier. Best idea. Keep % the same and just lower the multiplier.

Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 83	Posted - 2013.03.18 23:53:00 - [11] - Quote mikegunnz wrote: Winscar Shinobi wrote: Yeah pointless skill is pointless. Needs a % increase OR (and a smarter idea) lower the multiplier. Best idea. Keep % the same and just lower the multiplier. You can't lower the multiplier for sidearms it's already at the lowest level. Still to expensive. Not to mention that AR and SMG have the same reloade times. So if we set them both to the same then there is no SP cost buff for sidearm - something I think is quite reasonable and I don't think that sidearms ops should also have a x1 multiplier also, instead of x2.
ReGnUM Public Relations Imperfects Public Relations 42	Posted - 2013.03.19 00:25:00 - [12] - Quote Ignoble Son wrote: What is the deal hear? Let's take AR or SMG for example: Time no modifier: 3 sec. Time max modifie: 2.25 sec. Is this really worth the several hundred thousand SP it takes to max skill weapon reload? And why are these skills diferent from the other weapons upgrade skills? All the other skills are 5% - 3%, while this particular one is 3% - 2%. WTF? I think that this skill needs a buff, set to the standard of the other handheld weapons upgrade skills. And I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be this way. As it is now I am really finding it difficult to justify skilling this. Does anyone have any info on Dev stance on this subject? Ok, discuss. Hi there, Coming from a very competitive gaming history, I can tell you that half a second makes a big difference.
Belzeebub Santana SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 448	Posted - 2013.03.19 01:44:00 - [13] - Quote ReGnUM Public Relations wrote: Ignoble Son wrote: What is the deal hear? Let's take AR or SMG for example: Time no modifier: 3 sec. Time max modifie: 2.25 sec. Is this really worth the several hundred thousand SP it takes to max skill weapon reload? And why are these skills diferent from the other weapons upgrade skills? All the other skills are 5% - 3%, while this particular one is 3% - 2%. WTF? I think that this skill needs a buff, set to the standard of the other handheld weapons upgrade skills. And I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be this way. As it is now I am really finding it difficult to justify skilling this. Does anyone have any info on Dev stance on this subject? Ok, discuss. Hi there, Coming from a very competitive gaming history, I can tell you that half a second makes a big difference. Yes but at the cost of SP invested in to that before other skills? It is definitely a good skill to have but not a must until you think it is time.
IRuby Heart DIOS EX. 426	Posted - 2013.03.19 01:56:00 - [14] - Quote Lets be serious here guys, I don't think we can honestly say that even 50% of the skills in this game work.
N1ck Comeau Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 90	Posted - 2013.03.19 01:58:00 - [15] - Quote IRuby Heart wrote: Lets be serious here guys, I don't think we can honestly say that even 50% of the skills in this game work. Yea they do i'd say 80% work and the other 20% are hard to notice or understand what they do.
Sontie VENGEANCE FOR HIRE 158	Posted - 2013.03.19 02:00:00 - [16] - Quote to expensive? What else are you spending your SP on? I'm at 5.2 mil and my character is still a toddler. Play the long game.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1699	Posted - 2013.03.19 02:01:00 - [17] - Quote Ignoble Son wrote: Knarf Black wrote: It's more for the Swarm Launcher and Mass Driver users than AR guys, but they should definitely buff Sidearm Rapid Reload, as you have to practically max it out just to notice a difference. It is oober expensive and ultimately ineffective regardless of what weapon you apply this to. Actually, the skill is not entirely ineffective. The HMG stands to benefit the most due to its 8-second base reload time. At max skill level, the time is reduced by 2 seconds. That's 2 extra seconds that a heavy benefits and uses for further tearing through squishy armor.
leafblades Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2013.03.19 02:04:00 - [18] - Quote Sontie wrote: to expensive? What else are you spending your SP on? I'm at 5.2 mil and my character is still a toddler. Play the long game. This made me smile
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 494	Posted - 2013.03.19 02:07:00 - [19] - Quote Gotta get that Rapid Reload Proficiency to L5
KalOfTheRathi CowTek 242	Posted - 2013.03.19 02:13:00 - [20] - Quote Fine, Kitten. Simply ignore the reload time Skill. Who cares? Spend the SP on something else. However, remember that your QQ and whining are very special to CCP. So keep a journal and CCP will certainly send a courier by one day to pick it up. Until that time remember that Many Skill increases grant you Nothing at level 2 and 4. Nothing. No skill increases. Nothing in the market to give even an overpriced, yet minimally better item/weapon. Only the ability to get to level 3 or 5 where the real goodies lay with their every increasing price tags and allure.

TODDSTER024 Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 36	Posted - 2013.03.19 05:42:00 - [21] - Quote Laheon wrote: You'd be surprised how much that 0.75 seconds helps in combat, and how often. QFT & "Liked".
Zeylon Rho not in a corporation 0	Posted - 2013.03.19 05:58:00 - [22] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: Fine, Kitten. Simply ignore the reload time Skill. Who cares? Spend the SP on something else. However, remember that your QQ and whining are very special to CCP. So keep a journal and CCP will certainly send a courier by one day to pick it up. Until that time remember that Many Skill increases grant you Nothing at level 2 and 4. Nothing. No skill increases. Nothing in the market to give even an overpriced, yet minimally better item/weapon. Only the ability to get to level 3 or 5 where the real goodies lay with their every increasing price tags and allure. That's a false dichotomy of sorts. You can see popular requests in the Feedback forum for adding "some" kind of bonus to skills that otherwise only unlock equipment. The rationale being that equivalent sorts of skills in EVE confer some bonus, even if it's minor, so that when you choose to use crappier tiers of equipment in that type - you're still reaping "some" sort of benefit for your skill. Mind you, I don't know that reload is worthless, but the no-bonus skills probably need to be looked at too.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 92	Posted - 2013.03.19 07:18:00 - [23] - Quote Its a skill that you will eventually skill into when you gotta choose a 1.2m investment for something or marginally increase your odds with faster reload, also 0.75s means being very very dead or walking away from a gunfight sometimes...
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 84	Posted - 2013.03.19 17:31:00 - [24] - Quote Wow, to say that I am surprised at the direction that this thread has gone, would be an understatement. So let's do some math: Each dropsuite class (with the exception of the logi of course) is going to have to train two weapons reload skills: Heavy suit: Heavy weapon rapid reload Sidearm weapon rapid reload Assault suit: Light weapon rapid reload Sidearm weapon rapid reload Scout suit: Light weapon rapid reload Sidearm weapon rapid reload Let's stick with light and sidearms, for our purposes here, but do keep in mind that heavy is even more expensive (by one multiplier point). Also, we'll stick with my earlier examples of the AR and SMG, so all times used for this example will be 3 seconds. Now, lets take a look at what the benefits and costs are of training -á"light weapons rapid reload": Light weapons rapid reload Total cost to train: 621,840. SP Time decrease to reload speed: .45 seconds Now "light weapon rapid reload proficiency": Light weapon rapid reload proficiency Total cost to train: 1,554,600. SP-á Time decrease to reload speed: .30 seconds Total cost to train both skills: 2,176,440. SP Now that's ^^^ a pretty hefty price-tag right there. In fact it is an entire months worth of solid game play. One week capped SP = 527,000. SP, and this is only if you have both passive and active boosters activated. I'm not going to do the complete breakdown for sidearms reload. I'm just going to list the total Cost to train both skills: Sidearms weapon rapid reload "total" cost to train: 1,554,600. SP So, in total, to get all reload skills trained to max skill, for any particular suit class (with the exception of logi, and keeping in mind that heavy would be even more expensive) it would cost exactly 3,731,040. SP. A solid seven weeks worth of game play! For what? A grand total of .75 sec. Faster reload time? Now IMHO, you guys are approaching this thread from all the wrong angles. If I spend seven weeks of my time training a skill I expect to at least see a simi drastic increase in that skill's affect on my core game play. Let's think of it from a point of advantage leveling the skill level by level, ten levels total. Let's say that I have weapon rapid reload LV3 (2.73 sec. reload time; 136,800. SP investment) and someone else has LV5 (2.55 sec. reload time; 621,840. SP investment) a grand total of .18 sec reload time. Do I really care about this? Can I justify spending nearly a weeks worth of SP to bridge this gap (485,040. SP)? The answer is a resounding NO! Let's take a more drastic example: Let's say I have LV4 trained: SP investment: 310,920.-á Reload time: 2.64 sec. And some one else has LV10 trained: SP investment: 2,176,440. Reload time 2.25 sec. A grand total of .39 sec. Reload time. With an SP investment difference of 1,865,520. SP. nearly a month's worth of playtime. Now when I put .39 sec. reload time, and one month of play time on the scales together which one do you think wins? There are a lot of other skills out there. There will be a lot more skills being added to this game soon and hopefully consistently. Maybe I'll drive tanks: far better investment and you know what, actually cheaper. Maybe I'll work on a new weapons class: far more useful. Maybe I'll work on a a new dropsuit class: again far more useful. Maybe I'll work on that crusader roll, or heavy attack air craft or MTAC's... Man this thing is never going to get trained. And you know why? Because it is not worth it. Look I'm not asking for much here. All I am asking is that it be made so that the difference between having this skill and not, be made noticeable on the battlefield. That is all. Thank you for reading.
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER TeamPlayers 130	Posted - 2013.03.19 17:46:00 - [25] - Quote be happy you arent a heavy... Max out prof 5.. 2 seconds less reload when all said and done.. which is HUGE for an HMG user HOWEVER... 3x/6x... 932k to reach lvl 5 then another 2 mil to get to prof 5 talking almost 3 million SP to increase reload by 25% (from 8 seconds to 6 seconds) granted.. this IS significant, as alluded to in this thread the faster u reload the faster you can shoot ppl.. very important but tough to prioritize that over lots of other things (most actually)
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 4	Posted - 2013.03.19 18:07:00 - [26] - Quote Ignoble Son wrote: What is the deal hear? Let's take AR or SMG for example: Time no modifier: 3 sec. Time max modifie: 2.25 sec. Is this really worth the several hundred thousand SP it takes to max skill weapon reload? And why are these skills diferent from the other weapons upgrade skills? All the other skills are 5% - 3%, while this particular one is 3% - 2%. WTF? I think that this skill needs a buff, set to the standard of the other handheld weapons upgrade skills. And I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be this way. As it is now I am really finding it difficult to justify skilling this. Does anyone have any info on Dev stance on this subject? Ok, discuss. in the heat of battle three quarters of a second makes a difference. don't skill it shrug but of course it's going to make a bigger difference on guns that take longer to reload.
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 84	Posted - 2013.03.19 18:32:00 - [27] - Quote CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote: be happy you arent a heavy... Max out prof 5.. 2 seconds less reload when all said and done.. which is HUGE for an HMG user HOWEVER... 3x/6x... 932k to reach lvl 5 then another 2 mil to get to prof 5 talking almost 3 million SP to increase reload by 25% (from 8 seconds to 6 seconds) granted.. this IS significant, as alluded to in this thread the faster u reload the faster you can shoot ppl.. very important but tough to prioritize that over lots of other things (most actually) ^^^ a reasonable man. All I am asking is that we make this very important skill more of a priority, more potent, more noticeable on the battlefield.
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 85	Posted - 2013.03.20 02:24:00 - [28] - Quote Bump
Syther Shadows The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 42	Posted - 2013.03.20 03:23:00 - [29] - Quote i got the skill to level 2 notice the difference the very next game win 70% more engagements now i learn i just have to wait until there done shooting then take my time to aim while there shooting i just doge there bullets when they reload i just kill them let the rage ensue


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