DUST Search - I just realized something stupid

mikegunnz wrote:

I see both sides of the coin.
Obviously you don't want the game to be completely flat, but the way the old builds were.... a proto/.complex fit was like a demi-god against militia/standard fits. You could LITERALLY run head first into a group of 4-5 militia users and drop them all easily.

The problem with this, is that there was/is no player segregation. You have newbies quitting because the game was unplayable. You even see it NOW. Even after the "flattening" new players quit because they get crushed every match by vets. Obviously some of that is from player experience (knowing the maps, choke points, right gear to use, etc) But a lot of that is the fact that it is hard to overcome the gear disadvantage...even now. This scares away new players, which ultimately hurts the player population and game.

I'm all for returning weapon values to where they were, and buffing the suits slightly (but not with HP)
But we need to segregate the player levels first. (high sec/low sec or whatever)

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Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1151	Posted - 2013.03.18 02:09:00 - [1] - Quote After Replication build, Drop suits ceased to get more HP as you progressed through tiers. It was possible to get a lot of Armor/Shields. People complained that they were dying too easily to weapons in the next build. So CCP decides to pretty much flatten weapon damage as well. WTF IS WRONG HERE!?
Zekain Kade BetaMax. CRONOS. 1007	Posted - 2013.03.18 02:12:00 - [2] - Quote Next thing to be flattened will probably be modules. OH SOME OF THEM ARE BROKEN, SO WE BROKE ALL OF THEM!
ICECREAMK1NG WARRIORS 1NC 421	Posted - 2013.03.18 02:13:00 - [3] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: After Replication build, Drop suits ceased to get more HP as you progressed through tiers. It was possible to get a lot of Armor/Shields. People complained that they were dying too easily to weapons in the next build. So CCP decides to pretty much flatten weapon damage as well. WTF IS WRONG HERE!? Same as they always do, nerf it to where it's useless. Just as the game itself is now useless.
Himiko Kuronaga SyNergy Gaming 29	Posted - 2013.03.18 02:14:00 - [4] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: After Replication build, Drop suits ceased to get more HP as you progressed through tiers. It was possible to get a lot of Armor/Shields. People complained that they were dying too easily to weapons in the next build. So CCP decides to pretty much flatten weapon damage as well. WTF IS WRONG HERE!? Common dev logic. Something is slightly unbalanced, so they break it by buffing one aspect of the game and nerfing the other, creating a double nerf. Devs then freak out because the game is clearly broken, and instead of fixing the one side that has issues they apply nerf logic to everything so everything is bad. Players get tired of playing an uninteresting game where everything is bad, and players quit. Well, thats what most developers do. Dice is a pretty good example of this kind of idiot logic. Hopefully CCP doesn't fall into the common dev trap, but FPS players are indeed a whiny bunch and far more rage-tastic than most, so they get a lot of feedback to change stuff that they probably shouldnt even listen to.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 692	Posted - 2013.03.18 02:15:00 - [5] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: Next thing to be flattened will probably be modules. OH SOME OF THEM ARE BROKEN, SO WE BROKE ALL OF THEM! Raise your hand if you can see that happening. o/ It's already started o/
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 81	Posted - 2013.03.18 02:19:00 - [6] - Quote "I just realized something stupid" Sorry, I didn't read the thread yet but does that ^^^ constitute a brain fart?
mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz 437	Posted - 2013.03.18 02:24:00 - [7] - Quote I see both sides of the coin. Obviously you don't want the game to be completely flat, but the way the old builds were.... a proto/.complex fit was like a demi-god against militia/standard fits. You could LITERALLY run head first into a group of 4-5 militia users and drop them all easily. The problem with this, is that there was/is no player segregation. You have newbies quitting because the game was unplayable. You even see it NOW. Even after the "flattening" new players quit because they get crushed every match by vets. Obviously some of that is from player experience (knowing the maps, choke points, right gear to use, etc) But a lot of that is the fact that it is hard to overcome the gear disadvantage...even now. This scares away new players, which ultimately hurts the player population and game. I'm all for returning weapon values to where they were, and buffing the suits slightly (but not with HP) But we need to segregate the player levels first. (high sec/low sec or whatever)
Kane Fyea BetaMax. CRONOS. 97	Posted - 2013.03.18 03:46:00 - [8] - Quote mikegunnz wrote: I see both sides of the coin. Obviously you don't want the game to be completely flat, but the way the old builds were.... a proto/.complex fit was like a demi-god against militia/standard fits. You could LITERALLY run head first into a group of 4-5 militia users and drop them all easily. The problem with this, is that there was/is no player segregation. You have newbies quitting because the game was unplayable. You even see it NOW. Even after the "flattening" new players quit because they get crushed every match by vets. Obviously some of that is from player experience (knowing the maps, choke points, right gear to use, etc) But a lot of that is the fact that it is hard to overcome the gear disadvantage...even now. This scares away new players, which ultimately hurts the player population and game. I'm all for returning weapon values to where they were, and buffing the suits slightly (but not with HP) But we need to segregate the player levels first. (high sec/low sec or whatever) Back then it didn't take a long time to get proto gear.
Power Chord Chernova Industries 4	Posted - 2013.03.18 03:55:00 - [9] - Quote Let's say you had to guess a number between 1 and 1000, and after every guess you were told if it's too high or too low. Logically your first guess would be 500. You are then told that number is too high, so what do you do? Do you guess 499 or 250? Same logic applies to game development. Something is too powerful, so they make a big adjustment and see how that affects things and go from there. If all they do is make little tweaks it's going to take forever to find where it's just right.
Rusty Shallows Creative Killers 13	Posted - 2013.03.18 04:00:00 - [10] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Hopefully CCP doesn't fall into the common dev trap, but FPS players are indeed a whiny bunch and far more rage-tastic than most, so they get a lot of feedback to change stuff that they probably shouldnt even listen to. There is much Zen in that statement. ... rage-tastic LOL! Love it. I'm pretty sure the developers are taking ideas from the player base. I'd chose to believe it isn't the loudest wheels getting the oil either. After all they did finally add an aviation flight stick to Dropships. Some of the following are reason's why I've gotten disgruntled in the past with different companies. Communication issues. No one likes being kept in the dark or worst yet ignored. Multi-meida officers are not commonplace in the business world so the job tends to fall into peoples laps who have other more in-house pressing jobs to worry about. Is any specific change from forum discussion, CCP internal play testing, or arbitrary management? Who knows, best to focus on the current topics and see what results come about. Development speed. Quick fixes are like Big Foot and unicorns, easily talked about and impossible to prove. Anyone else remember only having one map to play on? Or the ongoing war over lag/hit-detection? Even if the topic seems like a no-brainer there's still at least a review step and then programmers slogging over it.

Fraceska Opus Arcana Orion Empire 268	Posted - 2013.03.18 04:07:00 - [11] - Quote Even if they include a tutorial how many of the FPS crowd would sit through it? Same with EvE we would get so many questions that the tutorial and starting missions could answer. "How do I fit my ship?" "Where are agents?" "How do I do this mission?" There has been a dumbing down effect in games. I blame WoW which practically hands you every quest and where it is in the map world. Not just that but other games just assume people are stupid/and or uncaring so by making it easier they appeal to a wide audience. Then that easy mode makes their hardcore fans rages because its not "their game any more". It happened to Halo 4 and others when Devs try to introduce developments to bring about more players. It is really a Catch 22 for a company of what to do. I would not want to be in their position that is for sure. I like that EvE is hard to play it keeps the average intelligence of its player base up. And in CAS corp chat we had some really amazing conversations about a plethora of topics. What CCP needs to do with Dust is first determine which group they are trying to please and build the game from that.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2455	Posted - 2013.03.18 04:59:00 - [12] - Quote mikegunnz wrote: I see both sides of the coin. Obviously you don't want the game to be completely flat, but the way the old builds were.... a proto/.complex fit was like a demi-god against militia/standard fits. You could LITERALLY run head first into a group of 4-5 militia users and drop them all easily. The problem with this, is that there was/is no player segregation. You have newbies quitting because the game was unplayable. You even see it NOW. Even after the "flattening" new players quit because they get crushed every match by vets. Obviously some of that is from player experience (knowing the maps, choke points, right gear to use, etc) But a lot of that is the fact that it is hard to overcome the gear disadvantage...even now. This scares away new players, which ultimately hurts the player population and game. I'm all for returning weapon values to where they were, and buffing the suits slightly (but not with HP) But we need to segregate the player levels first. (high sec/low sec or whatever) Mikegunnz knows wats up +1 hes right back then with the buffs u could play carelessly and get away with it because of gear even now it makes a diff still just not as bad as it once was but we do need FW and PC to drop to seperate the vets from the newbies
Skihids The Tritan Industries 1037	Posted - 2013.03.18 14:08:00 - [13] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: Next thing to be flattened will probably be modules. OH SOME OF THEM ARE BROKEN, SO WE BROKE ALL OF THEM! Raise your hand if you can see that happening. o/ The Afterburner Module on dropships was just stealth nerfed.


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