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Imperfects Official Statement: Regarding Pub-stomping

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Winsaucerer The Southern Legion 25	Posted - 2013.03.12 02:35:00 - [1] - Quote ReGnUM Public Relations wrote: As the leaders of the Free mercenary world, we believe pub-stomping is a problem, and it should be dealt with. However, it is not our problem. Until a better source of income becomes present, we will continue to run in a tight unit fully equipped to deal with any situation. We are here to Win and Profit nothing more and nothing less. Proto gear insures for fast and flawless games, which only increases corp returns. I'm glad you make it clear through your name and corp name that this is a public relations tool of rhetoric! Because the argument is blindingly stupid, for two reasons: * Lose one proto suit with expensive gear means lose almost your entire match's profits -- you'll make much more money reliably with a free suit, even if the raw profits per match are lower. Lose one suit, waste the battle's profits. * The teeny amounts of isk we currently make from battles will pale in comparison to the ISK that will be made when the EVE/Dust link is increased -- particularly when other modes of Dust income (e.g., district control) are raised to be more in line with current ISK making activities in EVE Even if they introduce a 50% tax rate to transfer money from EVE to Dust, you'll still have your paltry pub battle isk outclassed in no time. But I understand that your OP was all about the fun of rhetoric and propaganda that helps makes EVE Online the kind of universe it is. But at least try to make your rhetoric sound half believable.
Winsaucerer The Southern Legion 25	Posted - 2013.03.12 03:02:00 - [2] - Quote Technical-Support wrote: I don't think you realize how much money some players have in this game. When you say "this game", do you mean Dust or EVE? I would agree that this is important to realise, once EVE isk can be transferred over, but right now it does not seem so important.
Winsaucerer The Southern Legion 25	Posted - 2013.03.12 03:41:00 - [3] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: Winsaucerer wrote: Technical-Support wrote: I don't think you realize how much money some players have in this game. When you say "this game", do you mean Dust or EVE? I would agree that this is important to realise, once EVE isk can be transferred over, but right now it does not seem so important. Remember when isk could be transferred, every crappy free lav had chrome spinners I don't know what a "chrome spinner" is, but yes it's going to get much worse when EVE isk transfer is in :) One possible way to balance would be to multiply all item costs by 10, and multiply pub battle profits by 10. That will probably bring things much more into line with EVE. This is not a perfect solution, but I wouldn't be surprised if something like this happens before transfer is allowed.
Winsaucerer The Southern Legion 25	Posted - 2013.03.12 03:46:00 - [4] - Quote Gunner Nightingale wrote: Yea heres the minor flaw in your assumption. It assumes that suits are lost. Even a death doesnt inherently mean a suit gets lost. Sure you can get us with a MD, shotty, or a nade but thats few and far between and for some of our leet so exceedingly rare it is almost never. There is no such flaw. It only takes one death before running full-proto (or even partial proto) begins to seriously compare unfavourably to a freebie suit. And saying "some of our leet so exceedingly rare it is almost never" sounds like it is implying "only some of our very best players almost never die". Which means most of your players do need to face the reality of averaging one or more deaths per battle where gear is lost. Maybe that's the truth -- by having ALL your players run lots of proto, some of your best players are able to manage not dying much (having support and all that). So that the rare few in your corp are profiting off the sacrifices of lesser players in your corp. And my second point, about ISK income sources, stands firm too :)
Winsaucerer The Southern Legion 25	Posted - 2013.03.12 04:11:00 - [5] - Quote Gunner Nightingale wrote: Actually its called good unit cohesion, map control, nanoinjectors and more important triage nanohives. When the squad is in sync 1-2 loss may cut in profit but not by much when you're rocking the top of the boards. Also now that everyone is running AUR proto suits, profits are going up for us so thanks for that. The whole i run miltia to isk farm excuse is cute and all but im pretty sure you can get better results in even just Std gear. The problem most have is they equivalate death as loss, sorry you dont run in squads or your squadmates can revive you. Oh yet another benefit to proto suits (everyone can run an injector). Throw a proto logi to the mix or a tank and yea deaths are very rare and when they do occur the suit isnt LOST since they get revived. You can only kill my profit if you make me actually lose the suit. Now you've changed from your original claim. Now you're trying to suggest to me that most matches most of your players don't lose a suit when running proto. Is that what you're really claiming? I find it interesting how you've had to make a stronger claim than you did originally to escape my point, but without admitting that you've changed your claim at all. Let's settle on what it is exactly that you're claiming first, before we move on in the conversation: Is your claim that most matches most of your players lose nothing when running proto? NB. I am not claiming that running free suits is the best way to make isk. My point was about the pathetic argument in the OP claiming that proto squads is the best way. Seems to me that full proto in an organised group and freebie suits are roughly on par. And the pathetic isk we make in pub battles anyway is peanuts compared to the real profits that are yet to come. Enjoy your personal wealth of 100 mil or whatever it is you could have made by now. Won't matter once ISK transfer is in, so why the urgency to make ISK? Or are you telling me you guys haven't played EVE, so you need to live off these scraps? All these things you and the OP say are just excuses to "pub stomp", and weak excuses at that. And a further note, it's going to be better for your player skill to do pub matches in weaker suits than proto suits. Think of how much better you'll be as a player if you can dominate when you have inferior equipment to your enemy. So freebie/cheap suits = roughly same isk made, AND better practice. Overall, the arguments in favour of pub stomping are stupid, and come down to only one argument that could be considered reasonable: it's fun for me to pub stomp with proto gear, because I like to dominate, so nyah and suck it up (we all like to win, don't we?). Forget all these other excuses about "better for making isk" or whatever.
Winsaucerer The Southern Legion 25	Posted - 2013.03.12 04:32:00 - [6] - Quote Gunner Nightingale wrote: Me having to clarify my argument for you to understand it better doesnt make it that my argument has changed. I still accept your premise is correct for "normal" players just not the beast GAWDS. Will that hold true when you take vets against vets.... depends on the vets on each side. Those matches are few and far between. Except that you did change what you were saying, and not just clarify :) But if you don't want to clearly state what your claim is, I don't care too much. The argument in the OP is stupid, and so it makes sense that you don't want to state this argument clearly. Quote: In the meantime we're dust rich so we may as well enjoy it. Moreover you can enjoy you're EVE wealth over on Dust won't change the fact that the RICHEST eve corps will want the best, and pay us handsomely for it. So you're right the Dust money is a pitance doesnt mean we're not enjoying it while we can. Oh and all you're money EVE side won't mean much if you don't have the personel it wont mean squat. And here we come to some agreement. As I said at the end of my last post, I think the only real argument you can use in favour of pub stomping is "because I want to". And that's what you've said here.
Winsaucerer The Southern Legion 25	Posted - 2013.03.12 04:37:00 - [7] - Quote Gunner Nightingale wrote: So enjoy playing in miltia gear for that larger DUST ISK while telling me its irrelevant once we can get EVE money I don't know where you got the idea that I play (and enjoy playing) in militia gear. Did that claim feature in my argument somewhere as a premise? Is it relevant to the discussion? I don't see the value in waving around eve-peen. I just don't like stupid arguments like the one in the OP (and I'm a sucker for engaging in arguments). Also, I agree that practicing in proto gear is helpful! But running proto all the time mostly against players who don't can only make you weaker than those players that practice in both proto and when they're outclassed. I can't see how you could believe otherwise.

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