DUST Search - [Request] Once a week refund all spent SP and.....

Soozu wrote:

Django Quik wrote:

You are still ignoring the most important point of all - if you can just reallocate all your SP, no one will ever test out the lower level weapons, so you won't be testing everything, as this entire proposal's point is based upon.

Furthermore, every single player does not need to test every single weapon in the game. There are a million+ characters who are already testing every single thing in the game between them in probably every single combination - you do not need to do this personally.

All the weapons we currently have available have been around for many many months and have been pretty tested to death. These are no longer CCP's primary focus for the beta. Release sounds likely to be in the next 6 months, in which time they will need to have a functional and tested player market and integration with EvE, as these are key elements of the core game design.

Finally, as has already been stated, there will be no more resets, so you are stuck with your build as is. That is not to say you are not allowed to spec into other things, you just have to work your way up the levels and will be forced to play with the lower level gear as you do so. This is as intended and actually works wonderfully as a testing system because it means even the crappier stuff will get tried out.

I think your "most important point" has been rightfully ignored as it is obvious who tests the lower tiered items. Just maybe not to you.


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Django Quik R.I.f.t 236	Posted - 2013.03.10 18:36:00 - [1] - Quote You are totally wrong about this probably happening at some point anyway. Take a look at EvE - many of the mechanics of Dust 514 are largely based on that of EvE and they never get SP refunds. If you make mistakes with your build, that's just something you have to live with and work past. This may be in beta but there are no resets planned for the foreseeable future, so what you do with your characters now will be long term. CCP don't need you individually to test out every weapon or module in the game - they have hundreds of thousands of people doing that. Giving people the option to change their build every week would just mean you'd have entire games filled with people running FOTW fittings. This is a terrible and unnecessary idea but there's no need for all the sensible people out there to worry because there's no way it'll ever happen.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 237	Posted - 2013.03.10 20:14:00 - [2] - Quote You shouldn't assume that we are EvE players - I for one am not. I just know that you can't use one set of rules for one game and a completely different set for a game in the same franchise/universe. Taking a slightly different tack, you should realise that your proposal would result in none of the lower level stuff ever getting tested because as soon as someone skilled up at in one area, they could just go straight to a high level on anything. Ignoring all the other glaringly obvious faults with your idea, this is probably the biggest reason why CCP will never do this (especially during beta). As for your interpretation of what you've heard/read, all they stated was that they hadn't completely thrown out the idea of some sort of reallocation for some reason in the future. This in no way indicates they are 'considering' it or 'planning' for it; it simply means they haven't ruled it out yet.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 241	Posted - 2013.03.12 01:54:00 - [3] - Quote You are still ignoring the most important point of all - if you can just reallocate all your SP, no one will ever test out the lower level weapons, so you won't be testing everything, as this entire proposal's point is based upon. Furthermore, every single player does not need to test every single weapon in the game. There are a million+ characters who are already testing every single thing in the game between them in probably every single combination - you do not need to do this personally. All the weapons we currently have available have been around for many many months and have been pretty tested to death. These are no longer CCP's primary focus for the beta. Release sounds likely to be in the next 6 months, in which time they will need to have a functional and tested player market and integration with EvE, as these are key elements of the core game design. Finally, as has already been stated, there will be no more resets, so you will are stuck with your build as is. That is not to say you are not allowed to spec into other things, you just have to work your way up the levels and will be forced to play with the lower level gear as you do so. This is as intended and actually works wonderfully as a testing system because it means even the crappier stuff will get tried out.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 242	Posted - 2013.03.12 19:32:00 - [4] - Quote Soozu wrote: Django Quik wrote: You are still ignoring the most important point of all - if you can just reallocate all your SP, no one will ever test out the lower level weapons, so you won't be testing everything, as this entire proposal's point is based upon. Furthermore, every single player does not need to test every single weapon in the game. There are a million+ characters who are already testing every single thing in the game between them in probably every single combination - you do not need to do this personally. All the weapons we currently have available have been around for many many months and have been pretty tested to death. These are no longer CCP's primary focus for the beta. Release sounds likely to be in the next 6 months, in which time they will need to have a functional and tested player market and integration with EvE, as these are key elements of the core game design. Finally, as has already been stated, there will be no more resets, so you are stuck with your build as is. That is not to say you are not allowed to spec into other things, you just have to work your way up the levels and will be forced to play with the lower level gear as you do so. This is as intended and actually works wonderfully as a testing system because it means even the crappier stuff will get tried out. I think your "most important point" has been rightfully ignored as it is obvious who tests the lower tiered items. Just maybe not to you. Are you serious? Or are you just trolling your own thread now? Who in their right mind would run anything other than proto gear if they could just focus on a single different thing every week? What incentive would there possibly be for people to use lower tier gear?
Django Quik R.I.f.t 244	Posted - 2013.03.13 10:13:00 - [5] - Quote Delirium Inferno wrote: RINON114 wrote: So a lengthy speech ends the discussion? Personally I don't see this as being anywhere near as bad as people are making it out to be. Instead of discussing this and iterating on it to maybe make a small gem of an idea, we get responses like: "Heyul naw!!!" If the respec was a player choice and not a once a week event then we get two things from this: - People respec and have fun with new gear and see what happens when they try a different playstyle. - Playing the game differently allows more diverse feedback from more players choosing to play differently. This idea is great when considered like this as CCP will get more diverse feedback on many things (and let's not forget they don't have to listen to "QQ something is OP"). Add to this the fact that people will stay interested in the game for longer allowing CCP more time to get real stuff done, means that CCP get more money. Great post, especially that last part which I hadn't even considered. The time between builds can get quite lengthy and with all the limited content while in beta it's easy for players to lose interest that they may have moved on by the time the game releases. Bad post, still missing the point. This kind of testing has already been done to death in closed beta for an entire year. Open beta is not about testing gear and playstyles and low level game mechanics - it is for server testing, stress testing and the higher level gameplay mechanics.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 244	Posted - 2013.03.13 10:15:00 - [6] - Quote Also, completely ignores all the extremely good points raised in the 'lengthy speech'.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 244	Posted - 2013.03.13 12:58:00 - [7] - Quote RINON114 wrote: Django Quik wrote: Also, completely ignores all the extremely good points raised in the 'lengthy speech'. Which was entirely tl;dr for someone with a life to live right now, maybe I'll give it a look when I have nothing better to do. You could also address the points I raised but are instead trying to be funny. The main point I am raising is to try and find something workable in this idea, because skill respecs are something that the more casual players want and also what we should be entitled to. Like it or not, casual players will be the main source of income and publicity for this game. And please correct me if I'm wrong but there actually is a respec in EVE, just not for skill points. You can respec your attributes (twice a year?) to get training times faster in certain areas. This could easily be applied to Dust and give all players a chance to respec in some form of time constraint that would be considerably shorter for the beta. Edit: Not everybody was able to get into the closed beta, and the current build doesn't accurately reflect much of what happened therein. Please stop saying "you had your chance in the closed beta" - thanks. There is a respec system in EvE but it certainly is nowhere near every week and you can't respec absolutely everything, which is what this thread suggests should happen. There is absolutely no advantage to CCP to have a weekly respec. Zero. I'm not trying to be funny. None of this is funny. It's a bad idea and should not even be entertained by CCP. And you are completely wrong about casual players being the main source of income to this game - that would be true of a boxed FPS but with free to play games casual players tend to put very little if any money into playing. It is the hardcore player-base that actually pays real money into F2P games.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 244	Posted - 2013.03.13 13:01:00 - [8] - Quote Also, that post you've quoted was a one off from someone who didn't really contribute anything to the discussion - when us others refer to the closed beta, we are not reiterating that point. We are saying that the beta testing of all the gear was done previously and doesn't need to be done significantly more now, thus refuting the point that the OP makes by suggesting that he needs to personally test every single thing in the game.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 258	Posted - 2013.03.14 09:27:00 - [9] - Quote Glad we've finally gotten this discussion to a sensible place and I feel I can throw my support behind the current direction. But just to make absolutely clear to anyone new joining the thread - the OP idea of a weekly respec has been completely and utterly thrown out. There is no need to post any more about that suggestion. Please read Cross and Rinon's latest posts above to understand and contribute accordingly. Thanks guys.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 301	Posted - 2013.03.18 12:19:00 - [10] - Quote Soozu wrote: I won't argue with any of that. I do however look at the issue from a different point of view. How to keep people interested.? Thus making this game a success. Allowing early stage respecs I would consider a huge incentive for those frustrated gamers [and from reading the forums it appears there are many] due to confusing menus [which I hear they're revamping] and lack of content, to stick around during the remainder of the BETA. A temporary game feature. How it might be implemented I know not. From the discussion, I gather it would upset most of the EVE crowd. To put it another way. To offset the newb uphill climb, confusing menus and lack of content and tutorials... throw them a bone for a few months and let they play around with their SP. We might find that they're even better at the game than the standard blueberry once they find their niche. I see where you're coming from and while I still think respecs are a bad idea in general, I would be willing to posit a temporary compromise and say anyone under 1 million SP can have unlimited respecs. Noobs would flit all over the place and there'd be shed-loads of FOTM going on at low levels but it wouldn't last long because even if you only count passive SP (without boosters), you hit 1 million SP within 21 days. If you're actually playing and hit your cap (with boosters) you'd get there in about a week. I think this would give beta noobs a chance to figure stuff out until there are tutorials/guides/more info or whatever else is brought in to make starting up easier.

Django Quik R.I.f.t 301	Posted - 2013.03.18 12:47:00 - [11] - Quote Kray Dytt wrote: But that's the thing... if a respec is only for small amount of SP (either not a full respec or only respec when below a total amount of SP) they aren't really needed because it doesn't take all that long to get that amount of SP again and this time put it where you want it. Have you then "lost" the misplaced SP? No, the skills are still there, you might even end up using them one day... We have militia gear to try out play styles we are not skilled for. To allow people to find their niche I think it would be better to focus on that approach. For instance, put up fully-fitted militia suits for specific roles and promote them to new players. This will allow people to try different things and see what they like in an easy way. Can't argue with this. I just suggested a possible compromise. Having a whole bunch of preset militia fittings is also a viable solution but I remember my first build understanding so little that I didn't even know what/where militia gear was or that it let you try things out for 0SP.