DUST Search - WP Based On Weapon Used For Kills

Vyzion Eyri wrote:

As I was going to post:

Comments such as

This must be a troll thread
I stopped reading at x paragraph
I stopped reading when I realised OP was a [insulting adjective] kitten
I stopped reading because the next post after OP was an I stopped reading post.
I didn't read at all, but here's my opinion.
I made up a tl;dr version for you, but I didn't read the post properly.
is this a troll thread? Because this idea is ridiculous

Simply shut down any imaginative, intuitive, hopeful feedback. The majority of the population are probably afraid to suggest their own ideas because of the minority who keyboard warrior (including me) and bash threads for the sake of it.

My dropship thread was received relatively well compared to others. But I spent a good day working on it before I posted it. A few hours on the main ideas, then the rest of the time attacking my own bloody thread trying to find every kittening angle it could be looked at negatively to foolproof it against the above posts.

We really need to stop cutting people down to our own ignorant heights; and blinding them to their own genius.

Tl;dr: you're all douchebags.

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Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 294	Posted - 2013.03.10 02:45:00 - [1] - Quote People complain endlessly about tanks, swarms, AV grenades, ARs, Snipers, etc. Perhaps we should change the WP value for each kill gained based upon the weapon used. WP effect both your SP total and your ISK income, therefore cutting the WP you gain by killing an enemy with an easy to use weapon could be cut while getting kills with a harder to use weapon could be increased in order to promote the use of more skill oriented weapons. for example: Mass drivers are notorious for being both annoying to enemies and low kill count weapons when compared to other weapons. Take a mass driver away from almost anyone and replace it with an AR, and their kill count will rise 90% of the time. It's a support weapon that requires skill, aim and time calculation to use properly, and even then you will need at least 3 rounds to take out a decently fitted (read: low fitted B-Series or well fitted Type-II) assault suit with an advanced level mass driver (EXO). If you switch to the assault variant, you are looking at closer to 5~6 rounds per kill. The weapon has very limited ammo, small clips, is a danger to the operator at close range, and is very difficult to properly operate at long range. Therefore I would bump the WP for getting a kill with a MD up to 55~60 WP per kill. The AR, as we all know, is the easiest to use and most versatile weapon. Not going to go into the perks and negatives, because ANY FPS player knows them. I would reduce the WP for the AR down to 40~45 WP per kill. Sniper rifles are the next easiest weapon to use and can be used from complete safety with no need to be in harms way. This one is tricky, and though it would be hard to code, I think SR kill WP should be based on the distance the enemy is from you. Extreme range kills should remain the same, 100m-400m should be~35-40, 50-100 meters 40~45, and kills under 50 meters away should award 60~65 in order to award the snipers putting themselves in harms way. As for AV grenades... if you kill a vehicle with an AV grenade and get kills for it, the WP value should be around 40 WP per kill, but the rewards for killing a vehicle need to be adjusted, so I'd like to see that done before I come up with a final number there. I'll leave my example at that and wait for your responses. As a way to counter balance these changes, I would also be interested in seeing a skill shot bonus for the final bullet you shoot to kill an enemy being a headshot. For mass drivers I'd say have that bonus count for a direct hit since headshots are very rare and extraordinary difficult compared to other weapons (this wasn't supposed to be a pro mass driver thread, but it seems to be leaning that way). So, what would you guys think of something like this? Down the road of course, there's no way they could code this before next build.
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 905	Posted - 2013.03.10 02:48:00 - [2] - Quote I stopped at the first paragraph. How do you determine a weapon is "easy to use?" My mom could play the game and wouldn't able to hit sh*t with an AR, even if most people agree it's an easy to use weapon, so it's really just pure bias, with no objective way to measure it.
Quill Killian Better Hide R Die 116	Posted - 2013.03.10 02:51:00 - [3] - Quote Hmm. It's an interesting proposition, OP, and what I have suggest is related to it: Why not limit WP to the level of the weapon you're using? In other words, if you're using a militia-level AR, you'd get maybe a quarter of the WP you'd get if, instead, you had used a prototype AR: 1. Militia ... 25 points 2. Standard ... 50 points 3. Advanced ... 75 points 4. Prototype ... 100 points. Just some food for thought from this cold- and antibiotic-fogged mind of mine.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 294	Posted - 2013.03.10 02:54:00 - [4] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: I stopped at the first paragraph. How do you determine a weapon is "easy to use?" My mom could play the game and wouldn't able to hit sh*t with an AR, even if most people agree it's an easy to use weapon, so it's really just pure bias, with no objective way to measure it. Easy to use, as in they require the least amount of calculation to use. AR= Aim, track, shoot MD=Aim based on terrain (for example, at a wall behind an enemy who has a height advantage) and account for the arc, attempt to gauge the time it will take the round to land, track, shoot SR=Aim, track, shoot LR=Gauge the distance from you to the enemy to determine if it's worth trying to drop them based on how much damage you will do at that range and giving away your position, HEAVY tracking, shoot Etc.
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 905	Posted - 2013.03.10 03:06:00 - [5] - Quote Quote: Hmm. It's an interesting proposition, OP, and what I have suggest is related to it: Why not limit WP to the level of the weapon you're using? In other words, if you're using a militia-level AR, you'd get maybe a quarter of the WP you'd get if, instead, you had used a prototype AR: 1. Militia ... 25 points 2. Standard ... 50 points 3. Advanced ... 75 points 4. Prototype ... 100 points. Just some food for thought from this cold- and antibiotic-fogged mind of mine. You want to give benefits to the people who obviously don't need them (proto users), and take away benefits from people who obviously do need them (militia users)? I'm going to leave that question as my answer. Baal Omniscient wrote: Easy to use, as in they require the least amount of calculation to use. AR= Aim, track, shoot MD=Aim based on terrain (for example, at a wall behind an enemy who has a height advantage) and account for the arc, attempt to gauge the time it will take the round to land, track, shoot SR=Aim, track, shoot LR=Gauge the distance from you to the enemy to determine if it's worth trying to drop them based on how much damage you will do at that range and giving away your position, HEAVY tracking, shoot Etc. Edit: Edited description into the OP. Alright, where to start? Uhh, well let me fix that chart for you. AR=aim, shoot MD=aim, shoot SR=aim, shoot LR= aim, shoot HMG=aim, shoot Rinse and repeat for the other weapons I can't think of off the top of my head. Like I said, it's pure bias, I find it easy to aim with MDs, just because I know that other people don't doesn't change my personal opinion of difficulty.
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 906	Posted - 2013.03.10 03:08:00 - [6] - Quote I'd just like to elaborate that I don't hate this idea, I just know it will cause far too much QQ for it to be implemented.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 294	Posted - 2013.03.10 03:32:00 - [7] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: I'd just like to elaborate that I don't hate this idea, I just know it will cause far too much QQ for it to be implemented. lol, it's like Zitro has come to my thread. He does this thing where he makes a td:lr which ignores all of the points and boils it down to the worst possible perception of the topic at hand. You are doing that here. Yes, any weapon is point and shoot. But the calculation involved in aiming each weapon varies based on what that weapon does. This one lobs grenades? Oh, it's point and shoot, just like an AR. No, it's nothing like an AR, and ignoring it's differences doesn't change the fact that those differences exist. I can shoot a mass driver fine as well. But I also had to put a lot of time into learning how to use it well. And I can still switch to an AR and typically get 5-10 more kills than I would have with a MD. I've heard the same from every mass driver user I've ever seen post in these forums. (awaiting random MD troll to pop up claiming otherwise) This is an attempt to encourage people to break out of molds. If you are truly devoted to ARs, then a slight WP drop isn't going to harm you. But if you are trying to maximize your WP for better after battle rewards, you can try a different weapon and attempt to master it so you can profit more. If you are a sniper, it encourages you to do more than snipe from the redline. It encourages variation in what players are using in matches without forcing it, and it encourages branching out which can help further prolong the life of the skill tree. I appreciate your stance on it, but I believe if people think long enough about it (asking a lot of the internet community here, I know ) it would benefit us all. It would add more flavor to pub matches, perhaps lighten the number of redline snipers a bit, reduce pollution, feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, and bring peace to the WORLD! Well... maybe anyway... Note: Sorry for comparing you to Zitro, I used to get trolled by him all the time and your remark reminded me of it. Ahhhh... memory lane...
Heathen Bastard Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2013.03.10 03:51:00 - [8] - Quote actually, It will tell people they're doing it wrong, plain and simple. that's what you want, a big sign that calls someone a noob every time they don't use a "skillful" weapon. is it nooby to use a militia sniper rifle and kill three opposing snipers pointed at your position with 3 shots, without taking a shot in return? or, the moment after reloading, nailing an AV just as he shoots a swarm from behind the corner of a building where the only thing you could have hit was his knee or his chin? is it nooby to perfectly time and hurl a grenade so that it airbursts in an enemy's face just as they get out of cover to rush your position? to kill the gunner out of a LAV while it is in motion, and firing on you? is it nooby to calmly dispatch a hacking opponent with a single shot from a scrambler pistol to the back of the head? or how about beating a hoppy scout using one, deftly avoiding their shots, waiting for them to reload and panic, while you line up the shot that punches right through their faceplate. You may think a gun is nooby. but it's the hands you place it in that make the difference.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1951	Posted - 2013.03.10 03:54:00 - [9] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: I stopped at the first paragraph. How do you determine a weapon is "easy to use?" My mom could play the game and wouldn't able to hit sh*t with an AR, even if most people agree it's an easy to use weapon, so it's really just pure bias, with no objective way to measure it. Pretty much this. You can't balance something subjectively
Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 446	Posted - 2013.03.10 06:07:00 - [10] - Quote Baal this is the second post where I have seen you mention my name, are you the guy sending me love mails on alts PS your idea is stupid

Parson Atreides Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 153	Posted - 2013.03.10 06:10:00 - [11] - Quote I didn't read any of these posts. All I know is, Sniper Rifles should yield negative WP.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 297	Posted - 2013.03.10 06:22:00 - [12] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: Baal this is the second post where I have seen you mention my name, are you the guy sending me love mails on alts PS your idea is stupid Glad you try to keep up with my work, it's about time my references pulled you out of the woodwork. It seems you post and disappear quite a lot for someone who used to be so active around here. I miss my troll target so bad.... =( Please write a thread soon? I promise I'll be gentle. Edit: PS I toss ideas like this when I get bored. And I get VERY bored when my bandwidth get's taken up by downloads and Netflix (my poor feeble little internet connection....)
Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 446	Posted - 2013.03.10 07:09:00 - [13] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Mr Zitro wrote: Baal this is the second post where I have seen you mention my name, are you the guy sending me love mails on alts PS your idea is stupid Glad you try to keep up with my work, it's about time my references pulled you out of the woodwork. It seems you post and disappear quite a lot for someone who used to be so active around here. I miss my troll target so bad.... =( Please write a thread soon? I promise I'll be gentle. Edit: PS I toss ideas like this when I get bored. And I get VERY bored when my bandwidth get's taken up by downloads and Netflix (my poor feeble little internet connection....) Forums are boring like this game, waiting for something interesting. Every time I make thread I just get weak trolls. PS you forgot the part where I care
Dalton Smithe OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 60	Posted - 2013.03.10 07:57:00 - [14] - Quote The real way to give people the WP they deserve would have to be calculated by a number of factors to come up with the difficulty of the kill. Let's take and example here: Scout/Shotgun/2x cardio regulators(not sure if that is the speed one, but that is the one I mean ) Now take into account the rationale of my thinking, this is a "speed" fit, meaning that he relies heavily on speed and bouncing around to keep his/herself alive. Then you take into account the weapon you used to take them down this would start off with a base 80 WP to take down(depending on the class of suit, STD/ADV/PRO) increasing the ammount by 10% per type of suit going up the tier. For a proto this would be 96WP if you were to take this guy down with varying weapons you would get a reward directly proportional to the level of weapon you were using ie: Militia X1.15(this does after all have a more limited clip than the STD weapon) STD X1.10 ADV X1.05 PRO X1 If a person can take down a prototype fit with a militia fit, doesn't he deserve the points for it? Keep in mind that this is only scratching the surface of a "fair" system. You would have to account for damage dealt. The person that got the kill would not get full credit if the person they killed was already close to death and they had very little to do with it other than the final shot. So the points given would be a percentage of what they actually did and the rest of the points would be divided among those who did most of the work. More than a few people would argue that the people with the proto weapons should make more because they are risking more. Really? A proto suit going up against a milita? What are you risking? If you are in a properly fitted proto, you will have no problem wiping the floor with 3 people in militia suits. Anyways that is my little take on the whole WP system. Might not be perfect but it would be "fair", and that is what a lot of people are crying for.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 78	Posted - 2013.03.10 09:46:00 - [15] - Quote a militia AR can kill a MD user before the first MD projectile connects, just saying.
trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 200	Posted - 2013.03.10 09:54:00 - [16] - Quote A kill is a kill. WP should be based on what you kill, not how you do it. Are you killing the militia noob shooting at MCC? Low WP. Are you killing the proto herohacking your critical objective? High WP. Did you countersnipe the bitc going 70-0 with Thale, putting him out for the next 20sec? High WP.
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1102	Posted - 2013.03.10 09:55:00 - [17] - Quote wow It amazes me how many dumb ideas this community has. This comes allmost as close as the request from the imperfects to survive a fully speeded up LAV hit with a proto suit.
trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 200	Posted - 2013.03.10 10:02:00 - [18] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: wow It amazes me how many dumb ideas this community has. This comes allmost as close as the request from the imperfects to survive a fully speeded up LAV hit with a proto suit. I think we got trolled though :(
Vyzion Eyri The Legion Academy 240	Posted - 2013.03.10 11:16:00 - [19] - Quote F Edit: oh my god, my whole post was accidentally erased. Kitten. Anyway, the general gist of it I will post next.
Vyzion Eyri The Legion Academy 240	Posted - 2013.03.10 11:25:00 - [20] - Quote As I was going to post: Comments such as This must be a troll thread I stopped reading at x paragraph I stopped reading when I realised OP was a [insulting adjective] kitten I stopped reading because the next post after OP was an I stopped reading post. I didn't read at all, but here's my opinion. I made up a tl;dr version for you, but I didn't read the post properly. is this a troll thread? Because this idea is ridiculous Simply shut down any imaginative, intuitive, hopeful feedback. The majority of the population are probably afraid to suggest their own ideas because of the minority who keyboard warrior (including me) and bash threads for the sake of it. My dropship thread was received relatively well compared to others. But I spent a good day working on it before I posted it. A few hours on the main ideas, then the rest of the time attacking my own bloody thread trying to find every kittening angle it could be looked at negatively to foolproof it against the above posts. We really need to stop cutting people down to our own ignorant heights; and blinding them to their own genius. Tl;dr: you're all douchebags.

gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 575	Posted - 2013.03.10 11:47:00 - [21] - Quote +1 to the above, baal I have to say that as soon as I read the title I instantly thought "this will reward some playstyles over others" and having read your post I have to stick with that opinion. And I think that favouring some playstyles over others is counter intuitive to the games freedom of choice and would be damaging in the long run to weapon variety in matches.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 300	Posted - 2013.03.10 16:29:00 - [22] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: As I was going to post: Comments such as This must be a troll thread I stopped reading at x paragraph I stopped reading when I realised OP was a [insulting adjective] kitten I stopped reading because the next post after OP was an I stopped reading post. I didn't read at all, but here's my opinion. I made up a tl;dr version for you, but I didn't read the post properly. is this a troll thread? Because this idea is ridiculous Simply shut down any imaginative, intuitive, hopeful feedback. The majority of the population are probably afraid to suggest their own ideas because of the minority who keyboard warrior (including me) and bash threads for the sake of it. My dropship thread was received relatively well compared to others. But I spent a good day working on it before I posted it. A few hours on the main ideas, then the rest of the time attacking my own bloody thread trying to find every kittening angle it could be looked at negatively to foolproof it against the above posts. We really need to stop cutting people down to our own ignorant heights; and blinding them to their own genius. Tl;dr: you're all douchebags. No, this isn't really a troll thread. It's more of a.... "I'm bored and I see no interesting threads, so let's discuss odd directions the game could take" thread.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 3066	Posted - 2013.03.10 16:35:00 - [23] - Quote I am against the idea as it would over encourage the use of some types of weapons over others. and that my friend is not sandboxing.
Flyingconejo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 82	Posted - 2013.03.10 16:42:00 - [24] - Quote I-¦m sorry OP, but why fix something that is not broken? WP are fine for me. I would prefer CCP to focus on one of the many things that still need work.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 302	Posted - 2013.03.10 16:48:00 - [25] - Quote Sigh..... Do I really need to start posting a disclaimer at the top of my threads when I write them like this? Of course it's a bad idea... ok, look up 3 posts from here, just above Iron Wolf's post. Tell me what you see.
Deluxe Edition Like a Boss. 56	Posted - 2013.03.10 17:25:00 - [26] - Quote You lost me when you described the mass driver as "high skill".
Xavi Italia One-Armed Bandits Hopeless Addiction 12	Posted - 2013.03.10 17:33:00 - [27] - Quote I appreciate your intentions with this suggestion. However, imagine they implemented this and made the AR give the most WP. That would motivate most people to just use the AR. While this won't matter much now, but when markets are merged and we have a player-ran market, then this would screw up the economy. It would make the economy entirely AR based.


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