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Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
1647
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Posted - 2013.03.09 21:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
I love the Nova Knives. You all know that already.
With the existence of Complex Damage Modifiers, Weaponry skill book, and Nova Knife Proficiency. Those alone already make the Nova Knives a one-hit-kill weapon against most assaults and in rare cases some logibros and that's just with the Standard Nova Knife (I have yet to reclaim my Prototype Ishukone Nova Knives).
For the record, I already know that CCP plans to make it possible to sprint with a charged knife in the future (hopefully this coming build).
Problem
But I agree with some around here that the charge up time is starting to be a little annoying. Besides, the reduced charge time bonus from the Nova Knives Operation skill book is not really helping anyways considering that the base value of 1.5 seconds for the Standard Nova Knives is simply not big enough for the bonus to have any meaningful impact. And as the base value reduces, so will the impact of the bonus.
Standard Nova Knives
Base Charge Time: 1.5 seconds
Nova Knives Operation
Bonus: 5% reduction to charge time per level.
Rounded to the Nearest Hundredths
Level 1: reduced by 0.075 = 1.43 seconds
Level 2: reduced by 0.0715 = 1.36 seconds
Level 3: reduced by 0.068 = 1.29 seconds
Level 4: reduced by 0.0645 = 1.23 seconds
Level 5: reduced by 0.0615 = 1.17 seconds
As you can see, it takes a level 5 for the skill book to be able to reduce the charge time by just less than half a second. That amount of time is hardly noticeable even for me when I'm in a heated moment. Of course, that half a second can mean the difference between life and death, but the return from investing in it is just not making it worth it especially when I have to grind a handful of my time just for a half-second advantage.
Now, this is just with the Standard Nova Knife. Let's look at the next tier of the Nova Knives.
Advanced Nova Knives
Base Charge Time: 1.0 second
Using the same skill book
Level 1: reduced by 0.05 = 0.95 second
Level 2: reduced by 0.0475 = 0.90 second
Level 3: reduced by 0.045 = 0.86 second
Level 4: reduced by 0.043 = 0.82 second
Level 5: reduced by 0.041 = 0.78 second
At this point, you are starting to realize that the skill book is having a lesser effect on the Advanced Nova Knife. From 1.0 second to 0.78 second, that is just a 0.22 second difference. Don't get me started on the Prototype Ishukone Nova knives. After the advanced level, the skill book becomes a moot point to have.
Solution
What I recommend as a solution, based on my own experience of having to face off against various dropsuits including the heavy, I recommend the following:
Replace the charge time bonus of the skill book with a 3% damage bonus. Then make the charge time for all tiers to be at 0.5 second like the Ishukone Nova knife. At the same time, give each tier a unique bonus that separates it from the other tiers so that each knife can have a practical use (think Tieracide).
Example:
MIL = No bonus
STD = Bonus to swapping speed when fitted on a scout.
ADV = Bonus to sprint speed when fitted on a scout.
PRO = Bonus to profile when fitted on a scout.
OFFICER (if there ever is one in the future) = Bonus to sprint speed and profile when fitted on a specialization scout.
The officer part is just a thought. Something in case we ever do see specialized suits. |
Kesi Raae Kaae
Much Crying Old Experts
52
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Posted - 2013.03.09 21:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Fairly sure levels of the same skillbook don't work that way for calculations, at all level V you'd get a 25% decrease in time, doesn't really detract from your main point, though.
And yes to tiericide |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
1647
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 21:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Actually, the formula is different. You don't add the percentages. You multiply the percentage of the next level by the product of the previous level. This is the same formula used in Eve Online. |
Kesi Raae Kaae
Much Crying Old Experts
52
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Posted - 2013.03.09 21:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Actually, the formula is different. You don't add the percentages. You multiply the percentage of the next level by the product of the previous level. This is the same formula used in Eve Online.
Ah okay, I dunno what to believe anymore :Z |
Delirium Inferno
Chernova Industries
44
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Posted - 2013.03.09 22:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
You can already sprint via a bug with any charge weapon (nova knives, charge sniper, forge gun). All you must do is melee and then quickly hold the charge during the middle of the animation.
As far as the charge time goes, it's the same problem with the reload skills. The base time is so small that the percentages don't do much. What CCP needs to do is figure out how fast they want the knives to charge or guns to reload when fully spec'd, and then adjust the percentages to make that happen. It needs to be more substantial. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
1647
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 22:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
@Delirium
Thanks for the tip, but I already knew that. At least it's nice to have someone remind us about the bug (which is actually beneficial). |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
1647
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 01:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
No one else has any feedback on this thought? |
ZiwZih
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
65
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Posted - 2013.03.10 01:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bump for good initiative! Yes, tieracide -- love your proposal, especialy:
Quote:ADV = Bonus to sprint speed when fitted on a scout.
If you know that current speed bonus is only animation and no real thing, this is perfect solution.
For this:
Maken Tosch wrote:Actually, the formula is different. You don't add the percentages. You multiply the percentage of the next level by the product of the previous level. This is the same formula used in Eve Online.
In DUST skill levels are stacked, different skills are compounded. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
1649
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 02:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Hmm. Interesting. I always believed that it was compounded for all stats regardless if they are different or similar. We learn something new everyday. |
Jathniel
G I A N T
73
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Posted - 2013.03.10 23:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Hm. You might like this, since nova knives are your thing.
If you were able to blend with your enemies, you would be less worried about the charge time, and more worried about stealth... as it should be.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62997&find=unread
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Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
1659
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Posted - 2013.03.12 02:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
I edited the OP to match the correct formula. |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1093
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Posted - 2013.03.19 16:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
But what if I want to run a Heavy with Kinetic Catalyzers and Nova Knives D:
This idea doesn't support my playstyle!!!
No, bit in all seriousness I wouldn't mind some nova knife love. While I'm not on either side of the fence when it comes to aim assist when using them (gets tricky with the current FoV) I kinda like this idea so I'll give it a +1. |
Sontie
VENGEANCE FOR HIRE
160
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Posted - 2013.03.20 19:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
make melee damage stack (though I already suspect it does). |
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