|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2072
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 21:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
So... what significant advantage does the scout have over the assault type-II ? |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2072
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 21:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:So... what significant advantage does the scout have over the assault type-II ? Well for one there is a great speed and stealth advantage and i'm pretty sure the scout suits are 4000 to 5000 isk cheaper Great speed? not nearly enough over the assault type-11 variations to out way the hp advantage, don't forget it's faster then the type-I assault. Stealth is only better by 5 points, with the greater cpu and more slots you can actually close that gap without a problem if you feel like it. And 4000 t0 5000isk.... lol
Assault type-II > scout type-I + type-II |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2072
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 21:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:N1ck Comeau wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:So... what significant advantage does the scout have over the assault type-II ? Well for one there is a great speed and stealth advantage and i'm pretty sure the scout suits are 4000 to 5000 isk cheaper Great speed? not nearly enoughover the assault type-11 variations to out way the hp advantage. Stealth is only better by 5 points, with the greater cpu and more slots you can actually close that gap without a problem if you feel like it. And 4000 t0 5000isk.... lol Assault type-II > scout type-I + type-II Hey i'm not saying you have to like the suit i'm just saying i do and i can do well with it isn't that all that matters? I'm saying scout needs buff in it's own niche.(since it has no significant specialty to make it a worthwhile asset) |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2073
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 23:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote:We can all agree that the scout suit is a extremely hard to use suit but if used properly the benefits out way the disadvantages I thought we just went over this... |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2077
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 00:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:N1ck Comeau wrote:We can all agree that the scout suit is a extremely hard to use suit but if used properly the benefits out way the disadvantages I thought we just went over this... well obviously some people don't understand. I have already proved benefits do not out weigh disadvantages by comparing them to another suit that can do everything a scout suit can do but better. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2079
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 17:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Which suit has better scanning stats (both profile AND PRECISION)? Which suit has a higher strafe speed? Which suit has better shield regen?
Which suit has ALL those things as well as straight-line speed and HP to outmatch the Scout? Assault Strafe speed? MUCH lower than Scout. Assault scan profile? Only slightly lower, but that's why I asked for profile AND PRECISION. Assault shield regen? Also significantly lower than the Scout. Straight-line speed? Scout is ahead - not by a huge amount, but still ahead. And that's before I bring up the stamina advantage. Scouts have more stamina and faster regen than other suits, allowing for much more CONSISTENT mobility - which is important in buildings and areas with a good amount of cover... IF you're good at playing to those strengths. That is a wonderful example of a selective and close minded view point on this, thank you.You fail to acknowledge any of the assault suit's advantages and how they may or may not cancel out the scout's advantages.
First off, profile and precision are only at a 5 point(10%) difference from the assault suit, yes you can still call that an advantage but you shouldn't get carried away just because you want to aimlessly defend the scout suit.
Strafe speed may be significantly higher then the assault type-I variations but not a big difference over the assault type-IIs, yes you do feel a difference when you play the suit, and I have to admit the scout does feel nicer, but from your enemy's view point (where it matters) there is hardly a difference at all when tracking it.
Now for the regen. True it is significantly higher and it does actually pay off in some situations but in my experience playing in both suits, the hp advantage the assault suit has pays off in more situations then the scouts lower hp but higher recovery. You can keep the scout suit in spots where it has the advantage but ultimately the play style required to exploit the fast regen can easily anchor you down in a match.
The most significant advantage I have found the scout suit to have is it's larger pool of stamina which allows you to sprint to objectives and move around the map faster on foot, but free LAVs
Ultimately the assault suit has more slots and more cpu which allows it to be a far better asset then the scout can ever hope to be atm. If you'd like you can even put those slots to use and turn it into a scout suit with the right mods and still be more effective. The way scout suits are right now makes them more of a liability then an advantage and even if you do well in them it most likely just means your not playing to your full potential do to the suit's limitations, it makes me sad
btw this is the part where you say "sorry, I was wrong" |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2094
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 15:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote:Everyone seems to miss a BIG part of the scout suit that makes it deadly is its size. It has the smallest hitbox out of all the Suits making it extremely hard to hit while moving. I have said it before, the advantage the hit-box gives relies on your enemies skill in tracking you. It will only help you in pubstomping against less experienced players. These types of "advantages" I personally disregard completely because they are useless against people who have gotten the hang of this game. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2094
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 15:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Monty Mole Clone wrote:has anybody who is saying the scout suit is just a crap assault suit actually put xp into the scanning and stealth skills. coz if you have not then your right, your scout suit is just a crap assault suit Assault suits can do that too |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2094
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 16:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:Monty Mole Clone wrote:has anybody who is saying the scout suit is just a crap assault suit actually put xp into the scanning and stealth skills. coz if you have not then your right, your scout suit is just a crap assault suit Assault suits can do that too Not to the extent that the Scout suit can though *inhales*...................... *exhales*
True scouts have a 5 point lead but lets look at this a different way, logis have a 10% increase to hacking over assault suits (the same difference between the scanning and stealth scout suits had over assaults) both an assault suit and logi have maxed out their hacking skill. Yes the logi has widened the gap between the 2 and hacks pretty fast now, but the assault is well over the logi's original stats and hacks very sufficiently although not as fast as the logi. The same would go for the scout and the assault when it comes to stealth and scouting, only difference is unlike the logi the scout started out as just a "crap assault suit". |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2110
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 13:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:That is a wonderful example of a selective and close minded view point on this, thank you.You fail to acknowledge any of the assault suit's advantages and how they may or may not cancel out the scout's advantages. Both suits can negate one another's advantages in various ways. I'm not denying that. I'm focusing on where the Scouts DO have the advantage because THAT'S WHAT OTHERS ARE ARGUING AGAINST. When people claim the Scout has NO advantages, that's flat-out WRONG. There are advantages, and when you play to those advantages, you can CONSISTENTLY beat Assaults. Just like a good Assault player can consistently beat a Scout when playing to the Assault's advantages. I'll make a longer post later since most of your response translates to, "no your wrong." I will say my bad on the scan precision stats I'm glad they must have changed them since last I was on, or I made a mistake when thinking back on them. I will just say I have played both suits extensively and the way this game is, scouts are not even needed here at all the same way assaults, logis, and heavies are. At there highest potential in matches they are just a throw away suit. Prove me wrong. |
|
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2110
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 13:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: CQC-fitted Scouts are better than CQC-fitted Assaults for countering HMGs, Snipers, Laser Rifles and long-range AV infantry on most maps.
The being better at countering HMGs is out right wrong, and for the CQC-fitted suit going after the long range is just an ineffective method entirely. You use long range weapons to most effectively take out enemies at long range.
Garrett Blacknova wrote:While not necessarily more effective, Scout Snipers provide support differently and are harder to track down than Assault Snipers. Scout snipers are in no way harder to track, this I know for a fact as I've tracked down hundreds of either suit.
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Actually using the Scout AS A SCOUT can provide benefits to the team that an extra set of shields and a gun on the front line will never provide, and the Scout does it better than any other suit. Again wrong with a sniper rifle you can mark targets with the range of the sniper scope all the same, and even without that the fact that you see everything your squad sees there is no need for a suit designed for scouting. With communication we have never had the need for a scout suit.
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Well-fitted AR Scouts can chip away at most enemies with very little risk to themselves, and will force the enemy to retreat (at which point, they can outrun most enemies trying to run from them). lol at this a logi or an assault suit with an AR can do this and kill the other opponent rather then forcing him to retreat. If your talking about a group of enemies then yes you can kite them, however in a logi or assault you can jump in and out of cover and stand your ground more. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2110
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 19:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Proof of why I'm wrong on the HMG? I've explained my reasons. It's easier - for a variety of reasons - to locate a Heavy with a Scout than an Assault, confirm their position, facing and heading, and get yourself into position to ambush them from behind, than to do the same with an Assault. Going head-on against HMG Heavies is likely to get you killed with either suit, so hitting from behind in close quarters is a better option. You CAN use all your Low Slots and most of your fitting capacity to (almost) match the reasons a Scout is better at this than an Assault, but the Scout can use all their fittings slots to dual-tank and basically have the same statlines for everything once you're both done. And without going overboard on tanking your Scout, if you can get close to the heavy, the Scout's mobility gives it an advantage in being a more difficult target that makes more difference in that situation than the extra HP would. The fact is you don't need to run at it the same way you do as a scout. Do you understand how well you can tank an assault suit and still position yourself behind a heavy? Just because your not a scout doesn't mean you can't pick up other enemies. With the assault suit you can fit better gear and still ambush the heavy the same way you described a scout would.
Quote:As for long-range weapons, countering them with your own is a fail tactic when the enemy is in a secure position and you're not. CQC fittings are built to negate the advantages of long-range weapons. Scouts are particularly good at doing so. Assaults only moderately so. If they are in a secure position you have an even harder job to get close enough to them with CQC weapons.
Quote:Obviously not used to dealing with good Scout Snipers. A Scout Sniper playing the role correctly is a rare event, but if and when you see it, they're the ones most likely to run 20+/0 without Redlining themselves. I have gone up against some of the best snipers in this game, and from personal experience I can tell you have absolutely no idea what your talking about here. Sniping is what I do and I happen to run a scout suit and do you know what I found from my own results? A-series scout < type-I assault.
Quote:With a Sniper Rifle, you can mark ONE enemy at basically any range regardless of your suit, but you need line of sight to do so. With the right skills trained and the right modules on a Scout fitted as an ACTUAL Scout, you can get close to an area where enemy activity is suspected and light up MULTIPLE enemies, and you can do so WITHOUT EXPOSING YOURSELF TO RETURN FIRE. The fact is you don't need to light up enemies all you have to do is call out their position. Since everything your squad sees you see, there is no problem with lighting up red dots. Not even scouts can see everything and verbally pointing out enemies is all that is necessary.
Quote:An Assault or Logi can go toe-to-toe with an enemy and survive while the enemy goes down, but has to be MUCH more cautious when outnumbered, and usually ends up having to retreat as soon as they take significant damage when trying to harass enemies. A Scout can attack from one position, fire a few shots, move into a new spot (or make the enemy think they're moving while staying in the same cover) then repeat the process, and consistently recover most (if not all) of their shields faster than the Assault. Unless you fill two High and one Low Slot to match the Scout's shield regen stats, and probably another Low Slot for a Stamina mod. Even then, you'll need a Profile Dampener to have as gooda chance as the Scout does of deceiving the enemy or making sure they don't know where you've gone. They can bait enemies into splitting up or spreading out, and they can force cautious players to TRY and run, then chase them down when they do. if an enemy tries to retreat from a Scout trying to do the same thing, there's a better chance of success. To match the Scout's ability to fight this way, you're giving up Slots the Scout will be using for Damage Mods. It seems obvious to me at this point you don't know how to play this game and your just spewing out utter bs. Why would you have an assault suit try to be a scout when it's advantages play out even better in a situation like this then a scout can hope to accomplish. It's pointless for me now to bother discussing this with you when your going to make up scenarios in your head where the scout comes out ahead and all other suits loose. I wish you weren't so biased.
|
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2112
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 19:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote: You use long range weapons to most effectively take out enemies at long range.
Unless you're me, who uses shotguns to take out enemies at long range It's called positional awareness and tactical approach It's a good thing I use long range weapons to take out enemies at short range |
|
|
|