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[Request] Kill Camera / Intel

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Riffix Dathmor Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2013.03.08 00:40:00 - [1] - Quote Seriously, it's 2013. This game needs a kill camera. If you don't know what I mean, here is an example. Basically, after you die you get some information about how you died. Kill cameras provide invaluable information because they help you understand how you were killed. This makes it MUCH easier, especially for new people, to learn how to play and what you can improve on. I feel like if you are going to release a shooter these days you need this or something equivalent. Right now, you are just begging for people to try your free-to-play, silly-complicated game, get killed a few times without ANY clue how it happened, and then leave for something else that's easier to get into. Sure, you get additional intel but other games have proven that that just isn't even really detrimental to gameplay unless you want to camp a spot the entire game... Sure, this might be a little immersion-breaking but the whole death/spawn process is in this game so that can't be a concern.
Dominus Fatali Nox Aeterna Security 37	Posted - 2013.03.08 00:50:00 - [2] - Quote There is no need for this. Any competent team will be able to counter the enemy who killed you in whatever manner. Snipper? Call out their position as they shoot you and have a friendly pick them off. Shotgun? Let the team know to stay back and avid close quarters. The killcam, despite seemingly a good solution, would require much of the dev's time in programming and perfecting, all the while they could be fixing the preexisting issues.
Ulysses Knapse Nuevo Atlas Corporation 91	Posted - 2013.03.08 00:52:00 - [3] - Quote How about no? There is a reason there is none already. Stealth means nothing with a kill camera.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 336	Posted - 2013.03.08 01:33:00 - [4] - Quote So I can get a better view of people defiling my corpse? no thanks.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1181	Posted - 2013.03.08 08:53:00 - [5] - Quote Riffix Dathmor wrote: Seriously, it's 2013. This game needs a kill camera. If you don't know what I mean, here is an example. Basically, after you die you get some information about how you died. Kill cameras provide invaluable information because they help you understand how you were killed. This makes it MUCH easier, especially for new people, to learn how to play and what you can improve on. I feel like if you are going to release a shooter these days you need this or something equivalent. Right now, you are just begging for people to try your free-to-play, silly-complicated game, get killed a few times without ANY clue how it happened, and then leave for something else that's easier to get into. Sure, you get additional intel but other games have proven that that just isn't even really detrimental to gameplay unless you want to camp a spot the entire game... Sure, this might be a little immersion-breaking but the whole death/spawn process is in this game so that can't be a concern. Trololololol killcam is a huge consumption of resources and doesnt bring much to the table in terms of gameplay depth.
The-Last-Ninja FIND CARL CORP 39	Posted - 2013.03.08 11:39:00 - [6] - Quote Nope. No. püäpüäpüêpÇé Nein. -+-¦-é. Killcams are a terrible addition to any shooter.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 30	Posted - 2013.03.08 11:44:00 - [7] - Quote I think some kind of more detailed message would be nice. How many times have you screamed: "How the f**k did he KILL ME!?!?1?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1888	Posted - 2013.03.08 11:50:00 - [8] - Quote Kill cam is unnecessary and doesn't fit with the lore or core concepts of New Eden. The kill feed and direction damage indicators should be all you need. Only improvement I want is to make the kills - particularly your own deaths - stay visible on the feed for longer than they currently do. And maybe make the kill feed more visible while you're dead. The red/grey can make it really tough to read, and when you're dead and can't see what killed you, that can sometimes be a problem.
Jack Boost Zarena Family 200	Posted - 2013.03.08 11:57:00 - [9] - Quote Search button dont hurts... Something else can kill :)
KalOfTheRathi CowTek 198	Posted - 2013.03.08 12:26:00 - [10] - Quote RINON114 wrote: I think some kind of more detailed message would be nice. How many times have you screamed: "How the f**k did he KILL ME!?!?1? By besting you. Either with superior tactics, equipment, skill or Skill which is SP driven. Never forget Luck. The most common confusion I see is being flanked. Someone takes most of your Armor down quickly but you actually get killed by someone Else entirely. Even if they get +25 for the Assist you have no knowledge of who or what it was. The other problem that reoccurs is forgetting that some of the Skills, when maxed, dramatically change what is possible even with Militia gear. Add Proficiency and a simple weapon can become twice as lethal. I would like the last several Mercs getting a Kill to get rewards but, as far as I can tell, only the last Two causing damage get WP for it. I have taken many a HAV down nearly to nothing only to receive no WP because the AV grenade and the Swarm can in behind me to finish them off. Which means, upon reflection, I would prefer WP based on percentage of damage I suppose.

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1888	Posted - 2013.03.08 12:33:00 - [11] - Quote RINON114 wrote: I think some kind of more detailed message would be nice. How many times have you screamed: "How the f**k did he KILL ME!?!?1? When I can't read the kill feed, a few. When I've been caught off-guard and said, "oh. That makes sense" a moment later when I read how I died in the kill feed, a lot.
KalOfTheRathi CowTek 198	Posted - 2013.03.08 12:39:00 - [12] - Quote Riffix Dathmor wrote: Seriously, it's 2013. This game needs a kill camera. What in the world does the year have to do with this? Not to mention that it is hundreds of centuries in New Eden's Past. A lot more information is being provided than would be in any current or future battle field. The Name of your killer And the Exact Weapon they used? I appreciated it but it doesn't make sense as valid intelligence available to your now dead clone. I could make a reasonable case that If you get Killed instantly no information should be provided. However, considering what the TacNet is Supposed to be providing I could be talked out of that just as reasonably. Kill Cams just waste developers resources, Mercs time (watching a video instead of getting back into the battle) and provide Intelligence that is specifically blocked by Skill tree bonuses.
Riffix Dathmor Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2013.03.08 21:56:00 - [13] - Quote Dominus Fatali wrote: There is no need for this. Any competent team will be able to counter the enemy who killed you in whatever manner. Snipper? Call out their position as they shoot you and have a friendly pick them off. Shotgun? Let the team know to stay back and avid close quarters. So basically, your argument is "People in established, well-organized teams should have no trouble playing the game." That's not what I was talking about but thanks for that. KalOfTheRathi wrote: What in the world does the year have to do with this? Not to mention that it is hundreds of centuries in New Eden's Past. I was making a point about releasing a multi-player shooter game in 2013 when even Halo now has a kill cam. Shooter game design has evolved and while damage direction and a kill feed were fine 10 years ago, pretending that is all you need today is not. The point is that CCP has chosen a free-to-play model which needs to be competitive to succeed. Especially when it is 3x more complicated than your average shooter. You can't just sit back and count the money players spent on the up-front cost to own your game, regardless of whether they play. Free-to-play means anyone can try your game without any cost commitment. But this also means that if they don't have a good time early on, they will move on just as quickly. Which means they won't pay and your game dies. I'm not saying they need to do X just because another popular game does it. But I am saying that other games do things (and become popular) for a reason and in this case the reason is because when playing a shooter that has a lot of elements to it, understanding how you died is of paramount importance to negating frustration. Frustration is what leads to people not enjoying your game. I'm not even saying is has to be a kill cam specifically, but you DO need to get more information and the kill feed and directional info does not cut it in this game. Not even a little bit. Maybe you get a top-down heat map of the battlefield indicating from which places what amount of damage was done to you. Maybe you get a cam view of the kill from the POV of the MCC or another teammate. There are many ways to solve the problem, including "lore-friendly" ones. Arguments about the feature taking dev time are irrelevant. Dev time needs to be spent on things that make the game fun and viable and this is one of them.
The-Last-Ninja FIND CARL CORP 40	Posted - 2013.03.09 01:05:00 - [14] - Quote Riffix Dathmor wrote: I was making a point about releasing a multi-player shooter game in 2013 when even Halo now has a kill cam. Shooter game design has evolved and while damage direction and a kill feed were fine 10 years ago, pretending that is all you need today is not. It's not pretending. I would even say kill feed and damage direction aren't exactly necessary, but both make sense in the world of EVE/DUST, and they don't really bother me. Killcams on the other hand are not necessary at all. Riffix Dathmor wrote: I'm not saying they need to do X just because another popular game does it. But I am saying that other games do things (and become popular) for a reason and in this case the reason is because when playing a shooter that has a lot of elements to it, understanding how you died is of paramount importance to negating frustration. Frustration is what leads to people not enjoying your game. GÇª Arguments about the feature taking dev time are irrelevant. Dev time needs to be spent on things that make the game fun and viable and this is one of them. You say it would reduce frustration, but I say it would cause more frustration. People would just get upset over seeing lag and imbalance and just having "unfair deaths" in general. It's pretty saddening if a gamer is soft enough to not have fun just because there isn't a killcam. If this is the audience all these developers and publishers are trying to cater to, it's no wonder the majority of shooters are boring now. Properly balancing the game and making sure it runs smoothly in regards to performance and latency will reduce frustration. I really don't see how a killcam will reduce frustration. If the lack of killcam really bothers you, I suggest you eat some spinach. It's just an unnecessary addition for weak players. There are much bigger issues with this game than the lack of a killcam.
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 233	Posted - 2013.03.09 03:01:00 - [15] - Quote It is a pretty bad idea to just "add" this. But I must admit I'd love to see a module for this, maybe not really a killcam, but a thing that makes my squad see for a while the exact position of the person who killed me for example.
SickJ French unchained corporation 48	Posted - 2013.03.09 03:13:00 - [16] - Quote Quote: killcam No.
Riffix Dathmor Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2013.03.11 19:15:00 - [17] - Quote The-Last-Ninja wrote: You say it would reduce frustration, but I say it would cause more frustration. People would just get upset over seeing lag and imbalance and just having "unfair deaths" in general. No offense, but your logic is just plain wrong. I can only conclude that you've never played a game with a killcam because this is the opposite of what happens. Killcams help you understand exactly how you died and reduce the ability for people to claim that someone was cheating or what they did was unfair. When someone kills you through what you think is adequate cover and you are ready to scream "cheat! wallhack!" and then you see from their perspective that you had backed up too far and your ass was hanging out to get shot, then you know what you did wrong. I'm not even sure how a killcam would show people lag and imbalance in a way that would make people upset. It shows you exactly how they bested you including what they did and saw. There's nothing more fair. The-Last-Ninja wrote: It's pretty saddening if a gamer is soft enough to not have fun just because there isn't a killcam. If this is the audience all these developers and publishers are trying to cater to, it's no wonder the majority of shooters are boring now. Properly balancing the game and making sure it runs smoothly in regards to performance and latency will reduce frustration. I really don't see how a killcam will reduce frustration. If the lack of killcam really bothers you, I suggest you eat some spinach. It's just an unnecessary addition for weak players. There are much bigger issues with this game than the lack of a killcam. Thanks Popeye, I guess everyone should just HTFU or leave Dust 514. Don't worry, if it stays the way it is they will. Yes, performance and latency should be addressed but that isn't the same category of problem. This is a game design/user experience problem I am talking about. I'm talking about a core mechanic and there isn't anything more important. Again, I'm not saying it needs to be a kill cam specifically, but you need more info. Directional info and kill feed are fine for arena shooters. But Dust 514 is much more complex than those games. CCP intentionally created a game that doesn't even have classes and people can fit all kinds of different ways. This means you can be defeated by other players in a multitude of ways that aren't really obvious if you only know a general direction and what weapon they were using. For example you don't get percentages from different people, you only see the killing blow info. So you can see that you got "killed" by a militia assault rifle even though 90% of the damage was done by a sniper. Planetside2 does a decent job of this with their kill screen that shows class, weapon, and percentages of up to 3 people. You can get killed by someone who is right above you but your directional indicator doesn't tell you that. You can get killed from a grenade that came from ANYWHERE and you wouldn't know. You can duel with someone who is using the same weapon as you and you get more hits of them and still lose. Like you said, the Mag system was at least a little better at that. Dust 514 needs help when it comes to the death system so maybe they could incorporate something like that which would at least be a little better. I suggested kill cam because it really is an easy way to make things clear. If someone has a better suggestion let's hear it.
RoundEy3 Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 9	Posted - 2013.03.11 19:27:00 - [18] - Quote Oh please no. Kill cams have no place in tactical shooters.
Don Von Hulio UnReaL. 121	Posted - 2013.03.11 19:56:00 - [19] - Quote Kill cams are just crutches. The maps dont even have enough things to hide behind to warrant the need for a killcam. All killcams are good for is figuring out the position of who killed you.
Geth Massredux ZionTCD Legacy Rising 90	Posted - 2013.03.11 20:00:00 - [20] - Quote Kill camera NO. Other games like Halo 4 copied call of duty of their kill cam. Its not original. Dust is original in lots of ways.

Rebel3010 Lost-Legion 21	Posted - 2013.03.11 20:14:00 - [21] - Quote Killcam:No. all itll do is make it a MMO CoD. maybe a skill that adds the effect on more accruate read on enemy possition or a corner cam of the direction you were killed in IN THE MERC PERSPECTIVE(if you were kiled from behind, the cam will show behind the mercs head) but no kill cam. its a tact based MMO, not CoD
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 303	Posted - 2013.03.11 20:33:00 - [22] - Quote This would eliminate a major benefit to stealth gameplay. We already get enough intel by knowing who & how. Some of the most challenging & rewarding aspects of gameplay in Dust is spotting snipers, tanks, and other potential threats for teammates. In high stakes games, players could deploy cheap fittings for the sole purpose of exploiting the kill cam.
TheEnd762 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2013.03.12 00:05:00 - [23] - Quote No kill cams. Last thing I need is a bunch of crybaby AR bros coming up to my sniping point to spite kill me because they weren't moving tactically.
Cloud 9Tail Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS. 2	Posted - 2013.03.12 00:25:00 - [24] - Quote NOOOO kill camera is LAME! that just gives your opponent. "OR YOURSELF" away. If anything just put a Squad Camera Follow 3rd person.
Meeko Fent Kinsho Swords Caldari State 13	Posted - 2013.03.12 00:48:00 - [25] - Quote -1 If I shoot you in your face from 500 m, you dont need to see EXACTLY where I am. That ruins the point of Scan resolution and Precision Dampaners. To go into 3rd person after you die, yes, I dont like the funky Death fall the camera has.
Ed Shooterson Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.03.12 03:48:00 - [26] - Quote I like finding the sniper that got me, and then killing him, no killcam means he's less likely to think he's given himself away and stay in that spot. :)
Ed Shooterson Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.03.12 03:51:00 - [27] - Quote No killcam. :) I don't know if there so came across in my last post.
Val'herik Dorn CrimeWave Syndicate 324	Posted - 2013.03.12 04:03:00 - [28] - Quote I run a scout with a shotgun so a killcam would make me less usefull than I already am... Anyndecent player could use it to figure out how I hunt my prey... also giving away my position to any of his team mates. Having the head auto track is even more of an insult because now he knows what direction im going in and can tell them exactly where I go. I wouldn't mind letting peole look around them selves limited to where their head could turn when down becaue it fits in the lore nicely. "Ooo im dieing how can I use this to my advantage" So no killcams would be bad for dust. Why because in dust you can play a sneaky scout or a ZOMGCOMEATMEBRO heavy. Killcams would hurt sneaky characters more than it would help anyone.
Eric Starstrike UNIT 304 0	Posted - 2013.03.12 04:14:00 - [29] - Quote killcam gives away position. NO. This is dust 514 not call of duty.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1661	Posted - 2013.03.12 04:25:00 - [30] - Quote Already talked about. I don't like them because it gives away WAY TOO MUCH INTEL about the person shooting you and it defeats the purpose of having to learn to adapt to your surroundings.

BASSMEANT ZionTCD Legacy Rising 156	Posted - 2013.03.12 04:57:00 - [31] - Quote WTF kinda coboi crap is this? seriously... it's 2013 and you kids still need all the crutches you can get. you nerds scream no about V2K but you ask for kill cam? this game is soooooooo screwed. the codboi player base is trying it's hardest to wreck this game. Peace B
Hecarim Van Hohen Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2013.03.12 05:22:00 - [32] - Quote We have the kill feed for all the info you might need, who killed you with what is shown there.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 36	Posted - 2013.03.13 06:26:00 - [33] - Quote Val'herik Dorn wrote: I run a scout with a shotgun so a killcam would make me less usefull than I already am... Anyndecent player could use it to figure out how I hunt my prey... also giving away my position to any of his team mates. Having the head auto track is even more of an insult because now he knows what direction im going in and can tell them exactly where I go. I wouldn't mind letting peole look around them selves limited to where their head could turn when down becaue it fits in the lore nicely. "Ooo im dieing how can I use this to my advantage" So no killcams would be bad for dust. Why because in dust you can play a sneaky scout or a ZOMGCOMEATMEBRO heavy. Killcams would hurt sneaky characters more than it would help anyone. Finally, a decent post! I don't like the idea of a killcam per se but I do like being able to gain more tactical knowledge when bleeding out. This makes perfect sense logically and fits lore(ically) too. +1


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