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Charlotte O'Dell Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 16	Posted - 2013.03.07 01:03:00 - [1] - Quote If a vote is put out for the following question: "Should tanks be buffed or nerfed?" All tankers will say "buffed" and all infantry will say "nerfed". Now, assuming everyone responds, the results will not be fair. I'm in the biggest corp in New Eden (PRO), and the number of tankers we have is nothing compared to the infantry. Democracy with decisions like this is not a fair way bc assault infantryman outnumber EVERYBODY and hate everything that kills them (snipers, tanks, etc). if democracy is the way this is decided (hopefully not) a tanker's voite, for example, has to be worth more, proportionally, to that of an assaultman's. CCP, please listen to us tankers bc the nerf hammer comes down on us all too often. Give our turrets (ALL OF THEM) back their range and fix our ADVANCED lvl tanks, please.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 70	Posted - 2013.03.07 01:07:00 - [2] - Quote Who said life, or Dust, was fair?
Jathniel G I A N T 58	Posted - 2013.03.07 01:17:00 - [3] - Quote +1 for Charlotte O'Dell Buster Friently wrote: Who said life, or Dust, was fair? Life is what you make of it. Dust in its beta, is what we make of it. If we want "fair", we make a system that delivers it. Or would you rather just bend over and take it. Assaults and the AR users make up the majority, and they are all too often the first ones making unwarranted nerf demands. Lead the charge O'Dell! lol
Fraceska Opus Arcana Orion Empire 85	Posted - 2013.03.07 02:29:00 - [4] - Quote What you think this is the Gallente Federation? Do you want hugs to go with that too? New Eden doesn't care about this "Democracy" you speak of.
Charlotte O'Dell Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 17	Posted - 2013.03.07 02:36:00 - [5] - Quote you're being stupid. this isn't war. this isn't new eden. this is ppl trying to DESIGN the best game possible. you assault rifleman complain about everything that kills you. you're whiners. COD-whiners.
Fraceska Opus Arcana Orion Empire 86	Posted - 2013.03.07 02:38:00 - [6] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: you're being stupid. this isn't war. this isn't new eden. this is ppl trying to DESIGN the best game possible. you assault rifleman complain about everything that kills you. you're whiners. COD-whiners. lolwut? I play logistics with a mass driver. I complain that blue is stupid and stands up and runs back into the fire fight while I am trying to heal them.
Appia Vibbia Opus Arcana Orion Empire 4	Posted - 2013.03.07 02:49:00 - [7] - Quote Fraceska wrote: What you think this is the Gallente Federation? Do you want hugs to go with that too? New Eden doesn't care about this "Democracy" you speak of. " democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge'." that's what OP means by democracy is not fair. Design based on forum votes doesn't get the job done
Fraceska Opus Arcana Orion Empire 86	Posted - 2013.03.07 02:54:00 - [8] - Quote I know, I was being purely silly.
Void Echo A.I. 29	Posted - 2013.03.07 04:28:00 - [9] - Quote Fraceska wrote: What you think this is the Gallente Federation? Im from the Gallente Federation and proud of it, my empire may have taken over caldari prime during the war but at least we defend freedom and personal gain *****.
Canari Elphus Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 24	Posted - 2013.03.07 04:55:00 - [10] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: you're being stupid. this isn't war. this isn't new eden. this is ppl trying to DESIGN the best game possible. you assault rifleman complain about everything that kills you. you're whiners. COD-whiners. You have a thread that is complaining about GEK's and Lasers and you are calling others whiners? You have another thread complaining about Forges and Swarms... Do you have one complaining about sniper rifles or shottys that I didnt see?

Fraceska Opus Arcana Orion Empire 95	Posted - 2013.03.07 05:11:00 - [11] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Fraceska wrote: What you think this is the Gallente Federation? Im from the Gallente Federation and proud of it, my empire may have taken over caldari prime during the war but at least we defend freedom and personal gain *****. I just so happen to be from the Gallente Federation myself, no matter how you cut it millions of innocent civilians died from the drone strikes of Caldari Prime. We preach hugs, kisses and puppies for all but we are just as brutal as the Amarrian Inquisition was against the Minmatar Resistance.
Lonnar KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 11	Posted - 2013.03.07 05:15:00 - [12] - Quote Simply put ... this sounds like a mass of QQing Last I checked ... there was no such voting when it came to nerfing or buffing a given aspect of the game. A tank's a tank. It's big, it kills ****, and it's hard to break. An Assault Rifle is a simple pew pew weapon that does what it's supposed to do, kill other people pew pewing at you. Note: That was the most terrible argument in the history of ever ... I'm aware of it. Also ... nobody gives kittens which Corp you're a part of, they're going to shoot you in the head all the same.
Fraceska Opus Arcana Orion Empire 97	Posted - 2013.03.07 05:42:00 - [13] - Quote Have you ever been to a Gallente station? Right when you step out of the ship there is a pretty lady giving you a hug, a kiss and a puppy. Shortly after that our universal healthcare kicks in along with our amazing educational system. Everyone is just jealous they are not Gallente. Amarr got sticks so far up places it is no wonder their religious rituals are always standing. The Minmatar have this complex about not being heard so they are always shouting. They also live in caves and huts on the steppes of their homeworld, who actually does that? And then there is the Caldari? What to say about the Caldari that has not been already said...
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1640	Posted - 2013.03.07 06:09:00 - [14] - Quote The views and opinions expressed by the OP do not reflect the views and opinions of PXRXO. Also, the OP is wrongfully assuming that all infantry are against tanks. I'm strictly scout with a knife and haven't driven a tank in almost forever and even I am tired of seeing tanks getting nerfed.
Goric Rumis Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 92	Posted - 2013.03.07 06:14:00 - [15] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: If a vote is put out for the following question: "Should tanks be buffed or nerfed?" All tankers will say "buffed" and all infantry will say "nerfed". Now, assuming everyone responds, the results will not be fair. I'm in the biggest corp in New Eden (PRO), and the number of tankers we have is nothing compared to the infantry. Democracy with decisions like this is not a fair way bc assault infantryman outnumber EVERYBODY and hate everything that kills them (snipers, tanks, etc). if democracy is the way this is decided (hopefully not) a tanker's voite, for example, has to be worth more, proportionally, to that of an assaultman's. CCP, please listen to us tankers bc the nerf hammer comes down on us all too often. Give our turrets (ALL OF THEM) back their range and fix our ADVANCED lvl tanks, please. First, your assumption that "all tankers will say 'buffed' and all infantry will say 'nerfed'" is fundamentally flawed. It depends on all players being interested only in their own individual strengths against all opponents (a sort of Ayn Rand view of democracy). Whereas we've seen through psychology and through real-life examples that people are not superlatively selfish and will actually choose to lessen their own advantage if it promotes a sense of "fairness." Second, CCP doesn't just go by the QQ'ers and nerf/buff things based on a popular vote. They listen, and if the movement is overwhelmingly in a certain direction (like it was a few months ago when tanks dominated the field in all circumstances all the time), they will generally respond. But this isn't a simple plurality vote. This is more like writing to your elected representative.
Jotun Hiem Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 480	Posted - 2013.03.07 06:20:00 - [16] - Quote Fraceska wrote: I just so happen to be from the Gallente Federation myself, no matter how you cut it millions of innocent civilians died from the drone strikes of Caldari Prime. We preach hugs, kisses and puppies for all but we are just as brutal as the Amarrian Inquisition was against the Minmatar Resistance. Not even the Caldari thugs are as brutal as the Amarr paladins. I wouldn't even throw most pirates in with that bunch, really.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 71	Posted - 2013.03.07 06:22:00 - [17] - Quote [ Charlotte O'Dell wrote: you're being stupid. this isn't war. this isn't new eden. this is ppl trying to DESIGN the best game possible. you assault rifleman complain about everything that kills you. you're whiners. COD-whiners. You're right, this is a game, and as such balance is the only thing that matters. *Fairness* isn't even on the table as an option. If your tanks are out of balance with the rest of the game, then they need brought into line in order to preserve balance. If that means they need to get nerfed, then they get hit with the Nerf Hammer. If that means they need to get buffed, then they get struck by Sword Of Buffness. The "democracy" that the forum provides is a way for Devs to keep track of what is, and isn't working. If you have a lot of people complaining about one particular thing, then then the Devs know that that "thing" needs to looked at, and possibly changed. But Devs aren't stupid, and if they see that things are working as intended then they have no problem quietly telling players to HTFU.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 335	Posted - 2013.03.07 06:54:00 - [18] - Quote Canari Elphus wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: you're being stupid. this isn't war. this isn't new eden. this is ppl trying to DESIGN the best game possible. you assault rifleman complain about everything that kills you. you're whiners. COD-whiners. You have a thread that is complaining about GEK's and Lasers and you are calling others whiners? You have another thread complaining about Forges and Swarms... Do you have one complaining about sniper rifles or shottys that I didnt see? It is my opinion that EVERYTHING is perfectly balanced at the moment, even with the broken damage mods( though they should still be fixed ), the OP is just a QQer who wants Dust built to fit his needs.
Karl Koekwaus Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 34	Posted - 2013.03.07 07:00:00 - [19] - Quote I think they should include X-rated Holoreels and Pleasure Hubs to dust as CQ and accompanied movie on the big screen. Seeing the amount of gallanteans in this thread, I think we stand a chance if we would have a like to vote thread.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1870	Posted - 2013.03.07 07:02:00 - [20] - Quote Players who find their way to the forums typically have at least a slightly better grounding in the mechanics of the game than the "average" player who picks it up. I don't use Mass Drivers very much. I do get killed by them. But I don't cry OP, because I've TRIED using them and I've SEEN what it takes to get the kind of kills people get on me with them. I also know others who have skilled into the weapon properly and who have a better grounding in how it works than myself, and I can appreciate that, as deadly as it is against my usual fittings, there are natural threats that it's equally vulnerable against. One of my characters runs AV quite a lot, while another runs tanks. If I was only looking from the perspective of my relatively-untrained (so far) tank driver, AV looks like it's OP, because a well-fitted Heavy with a Forge Gun can rip my Sica in half with only a couple of shots and it only takes 3 or 4 waves of high-tier Swarm Missiles to kill me. If I look from the perspective of my AV fittings, there have been times where tanks look OP because they can kill me faster than I can charge my Forge Gun or get a lock with my Swarm Launcher. I don't complain about things being OP when I know there's a good counter. If someone else is complaining, I share the counter(s) I know about with that person so they can try it/them out and see if my advice helps them to defeat their nemesis. Sometimes the counter to a particular tactic requires teamwork, but in most cases, the tactics that need teamwork to beat ALSO need teamwork to succeed in the first place. If something seems to me like it's legtiimately OP, then I WILL be complaining, because there ARE dangers on the battlefield that, at times, can become overwhelming. There's been a recent move to request that Scouts get a buff - as a Scout player, I've been OPPOSING that movement, because I feel like Scouts are already truly deadly in the right hands. But back to the ACTUAL TOPIC here (sorry for the derailment), this isn't a democracy, and it was never meant to be one. The devs have final say. Always. They may not always make the right decisions, but they know what they're doing better than most of us. They don't ONLY count our opinions, although it's nice to see that they ARE listening to the playerbase and we've got a larger-than-usual amount of input on what CCP look at in their games (compared with other game developers). If CCP notice something being discussed on the forums, they have systems in place that allow them to look at the numbers and try to see where those comments are coming from. If a group of players got together and started crying - totally without foundation - that they were seeing tanks routinely getting destroyed by Scrambler Pistols, and that the weapon was a horribly unfair AV weapon, or that they were being killed at Sniper range by people with Breach Shotguns, even if the majority of the forums were in on it, CCP wouldn't be taking those complaints seriously. When there's something that could legitimately be a problem, they look at it. The only problem I have is that they're over-nerfing when something is legitimately OP. They turn the best gear from being off the scale broken OP to being equally broken as a useless item. There needs to be a bit more moderation in the approach to balance. Other than that, I'm happy with how the game is being handled, and can honestly say it's significantly better than a lot of developers these days.

Kray Dytt THE DOLLARS 12	Posted - 2013.03.07 09:09:00 - [21] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: If a vote is put out for the following question: "Should tanks be buffed or nerfed?" All tankers will say "buffed" and all infantry will say "nerfed". Now, assuming everyone responds, the results will not be fair. I'm in the biggest corp in New Eden (PRO), and the number of tankers we have is nothing compared to the infantry. Democracy with decisions like this is not a fair way bc assault infantryman outnumber EVERYBODY and hate everything that kills them (snipers, tanks, etc). if democracy is the way this is decided (hopefully not) a tanker's voite, for example, has to be worth more, proportionally, to that of an assaultman's. CCP, please listen to us tankers bc the nerf hammer comes down on us all too often. Give our turrets (ALL OF THEM) back their range and fix our ADVANCED lvl tanks, please. I'm infantry and I don't use tanks, but I'd vote against nerfing them. Both sides can use them so they benefit me as much as they hurt me. Also, I like blowing them up. Now if I thought they were completely out of balance, I might vote for nerfing them (or rather, balancing them, nerfing is such a negative term). Democracy works if the people voting aren't too narrow minded. Unfortunately I have to agree with you that that is big if. Luckily, the game isn't run democratically :D The developers will take player feedback into account, but they have the final say in all decisions and can choose to ignore any and all feedback if they want.
Hecarim Van Hohen Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 8	Posted - 2013.03.07 09:49:00 - [22] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: democracy is not fair I'm shocked.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1209	Posted - 2013.03.07 10:44:00 - [23] - Quote Tyranny of the masses. Without a mechanism to ensure all parties are actually informed, democracy is crap.
Ulysses Knapse Nuevo Atlas Corporation 90	Posted - 2013.03.07 11:28:00 - [24] - Quote I'm not saying HAVs should be buffed or nerfed. They are mostly fine the way they are. Damage modifiers need to be fixed, though, as do vehicle physics. While playing as AV, I realize that HAVs do not need to be nerfed. While playing as HAV, I realize that HAVs do not need to be buffed. While playing as a normal guy, I realize that HAVs **** me up.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 233	Posted - 2013.03.07 11:54:00 - [25] - Quote Who's ever said that the devs ever listen to the results of all the ridiculous 'vote' threads that people put up on the forums? The only one they did listen to was how the cap should be changed and they ran that vote. What the devs do is look at the actual content of the individual posts and pick out those that actually make sense to give them ideas on how to shape the game - then they go away and make their own changes in their own way shaped by the discussions they have within their own team. Having large numbers of people responding positively or negatively to certain posts or 'votes' allows the devs to see what people are particularly concerned about - it doesn't necessarily mean they'll do what is QQd for.


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