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Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
52
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Posted - 2013.03.04 22:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
Once eve can inject ISK into dust you may fully realize this problem.
Currently only the vehicle owner is required to have the millions of SP invested in a Tank/Drop-ship and the SP for modules to unlock them or skills to reduce power grid and even fit those modules.
What this means is that a play with enough ISK could hypothetically call in 15 proto tanks, and roll a match when all brand new players that have not allocated a single skill point.
Surely there should be a few lines of code in the vehicle objects which when created initialize a variable for vehicleOwner. And this should be used to prevent anyone who is not the owner from driving/piloting the ship. Unless you want to check against the SP of every person trying to get inside the driver seat, I think this is a solid short hand solution which guarantees only the player with the appropriate skills can use the vehicle.
However if an enemy hacks the vehicle for all practical purposes this should go out the window or else there would be no point in hacking a vehicle.
Your thoughts? |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
53
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Posted - 2013.03.04 23:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Skihids wrote:I'd like to see a skill requirement to get into the pilots set of a vehicle to reduce theft and make the skills worth more to your corporation. You could add skill requirements for individual modules or guns too.
That's obviously getting at, but from another angle.
And having a driver seat lock also solves the issue in this thread, which people seem to think is a non-issue.
However it is the equivalent of being able to purchase and drop on the ground several sets of Proto-Gear for players to wear and use during a game.
I mean everyone is all up in arms about the AUR item being a level 3 skill requirement for sets that normally require level 5. This is the same thing, imagine people being able to use Proto dropsuits just because somebody else bought them. No SP required. I'd call it an exploit to the spirit of the game.
So Knight Solitaire, that is why I disagree. If only I could be so grossly indifferent.
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Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
55
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Posted - 2013.03.05 01:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:Sounds to me like someone got their HAV stolen by a blueberry cos they were too slow getting in it or called it in a daft place and got killed before they could get in.
There's a vehicle limit for a reason and if a corp wanted to drop 5 proo HAVs on the field then there's far less infantry to support them meaning you can field way more AV and HAVs of your own.
Don't make like this is a 'future problem' of one merc calling 5 proto HAVs for his team to roll in ... just say what you mean that you don't want blueberries to be able to steal your ride. The previous versions of this thread didn't beat around the bush !
There's an easy fix to your suggested problem, be prepared to counter anything !
The fix to your actual problem is a period of time which only the owner can enter the vehicle ... which we have already !
No but I did lose a DS once. Thing came down and yes there is about a 3 second window to get in first. Problem is the button to get in was bugging out appearing and disappearing. So I kept trying to catch it, ended up double clicking. Went in turret and some other guy got in right behind me, and flew it right into a wall.
It is a future problem because its comparable to handing out drop suits to anyone you want. It may not be an "Exploit" in the sense that it's a bug but it is against the spirit of the game's skill point system and could be exploited to some advantage.
So perhaps not "exploit" but massive oversight and design flaw |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
58
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Posted - 2013.03.05 02:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:Thing is let's say a player calls in a Gunloggi but gets shot by a sniper. If only that player, or another player with the same skills, can operate it then what if he can't get back to it because he spawns on the other side of the map? Or gets pinned down? Then people have to guard the thing so the enemy doesn't hack it and their tank driver go on a rampage. Or everyone has to invest at least a little bit in to tanks. You can't blow the thing up so you just have to wait.
And then even if someone has the required skills what if they can't use that proto mod yet? So it wouldn't work but the rest would, that's a quick death. Or what if they only have Circuitry IV? Then nothing would work, or the tank explodes and kills everyone.
Or what if it's a corp battle and it's a proto tank. Everything is groovy but suddenly the only player on the team with the exact skills required to drive it gets disconnected? Now the tank can't move and has to be guarded so someone on the other team doesn't hack it, plus no one knows what exactly the fitting is so they don't know if they can actually drive it or not. Even if the other team manages to hack the tank then none of them can drive it and they would have to guard it so the other team doesn't take it back. Only think they can do is kill it and now you've completely removed hacking vehicles from the game.
Sure, there are ways to deal with these issues. That's not my point. I'm just saying that while the current system is a bit silly I think any other option would just be a complete PITA.
My ship has a small chance of living by itself on the ground, if I get shot, while I come back. If someone gets in it there is a 100% change they will be crashing it within 15 seconds.
And as a tank driver I think one would rather not have a scrub driving their tank into walls or enemy fire. It's better off sitting there than permanently locked down with a bad driver for as long as they might keep it.
The system I proposed eliminates any strangeness about modules falling out etc. |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
66
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Posted - 2013.03.05 11:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:This simple answer is to give the owner priority over switching into the driver seat.
Give him a 'Driver Seat' button when he's on a secondary turret ... hitting that will switch him with the driver Main problem with this is the driver might not have a chance to get in the vehicle before somebody drives/flies off with it.
What if I want to hop out in a safe area and repair my armor? Well, I can't because in the 3 seconds it would take to even get out and back in, somebody could switch to the driver seat, and from there it only takes 1-2 seconds to lift above the ground another another single second to crash the entire ship.
I'd rather they just not be allowed in it in the first place. |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
66
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 11:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
A'Real Fury wrote:Needless Sacermendor wrote:This simple answer is to give the owner priority over switching into the driver seat.
Give him a 'Driver Seat' button when he's on a secondary turret ... hitting that will switch him with the driver I agree with the above statement but you could expand it to say that the button gives automatic access even if the tank is full it will kick the player in the drivers seat out either into a free turret or if none are available then completely out of the tank. I believe vehicles should have the option to hack or jump in and drive but if the owner does get in then they should have the option to take control (drivers seat) of the vehicle. If you are going to call in a tank in a Ambush match without YOUR squad surrounding the drop point so even if you die one of your squad takes control of the HAV then you should accept us blueberries are not going to let it sit there. If you play in Ambush as Lone Wolf and call in tanks or high end LAVs etc then you will need to plan carefully before calling your vehicle in. But with the owner priority button you should always have access and always given the driver seat. As others have mentioned what is the point of having vehicles sitting around nobody else can use or even worse only someone on the other team can use. Particularly when there is a limit on the number of vehicles that a team can call in. I assume that this is less of a problem in Skirmish and Corp battles where the more organised corps gather and dominate.
Assuming I was somehow sniped before piloting: It does my team 1000x more good having my ship sit there an extra 10 seconds at risk of being under fire, compared to someone getting in, flying off untrained, then him, my million isk ship (which I won't call in another), and potentially 6 other passengers all perishing in flames within 10 seconds when he flips it over or runs into a wall.
And yes, in my experience every single one of the ships I've lost to blues (around 10-20) maybe once every day or so ... Every single one of them has gone predictably the same. Stare in horror. pray they actually know how to pilot or get the signal that my AR firing towards them means get back here before you die... observe as they struggle with the controls and collide with some form of terrain in the next 15 seconds, in what would be a comic display of firey-fail if only it hadn't such a price tag on it.
Let alone not knowing how/when/why to activate which of however many modules to actually keep the thing alive under fire.
I imagine a tank-jacker would be similarly counter productive to team efforts if they drive away from the owner, towards swarm fire, bump a lamp post and fail to activate a shield booster before being AV'd to death.
So no, sorry. I don't accept the premise that a vehicle moving is more an asset to a team then a vehicle sitting. At all.
However I do agree with you that under certain, sometimes unavoidable circumstances, I can expect a blue to get in the vehicle and kill themselves. They do this because they can. I'd prefer they not be able to at all.
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Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
69
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Posted - 2013.03.05 17:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:Altina McAlterson wrote:Nguruthos IX wrote: The system I proposed eliminates any strangeness about modules falling out etc.
Yes, it does. But you still have to guard it so the enemy doesn't hack it and roll all over you with it. If it requires skills to drive then odds are the enemy hacking it wouldn't be a problem. They wouldn't be able to drive it either.
Somewhere up there I mentioned that in the case of hacking I think all this should go out the window. It would be more fun that way. You should be afraid of an enemy stealing your vehicle, but not of your team makes stealing and destroying it. |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
70
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Posted - 2013.03.05 20:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Why can't it be an option then?
So if you want you can choose to either lock the driver seat from anyone else, or leave it open. Or leave it open only to squad members, etc. |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
70
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 22:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Marston VC wrote:Its as simple as this. If you dont have the SP, you shouldn't be able to drive it. People steal things like ships in EVE all the time, but that does not mean that they can fly it. How does it make sense that an infantry clone can jump into a multi million isk vehicle and simple "know" how to use it? it doesn't.
CCP should make it so that if you hack a vehicle, its considered yours and a special option comes up. At that point you should have a "re-call vehicle" option which just brings a bollus in to take the captured vehicle back to base. This way you can keep it until you have the skill set to drive it, or you sell it for good money. Either way its win win. This would also solve the problem of blue berries stealing tank drivers tanks as they simply wouldn't be able to jump into the drivers seat. I like it - if you manage to steal an enemy vehicle, you get to keep it as salvage as long as you manage to call in the bolas to remove it safely from the battlefield.
That'd be kind of neat. Also solves the problem for those people who feel vehicles should be returnable, the same way you can swap suits for free at a depot. |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
79
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Posted - 2013.03.07 19:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Django Quik wrote:Okay, I concede your logic Garrett - it all makes good sense, at least on the fittings side.
Someone else has fitted the vehicle and used their skills to get the correct PG and CPU levels and whatnot, so those can be taken out of this equation. Creating penalties but still allowing use would be pretty complex and I think unnecessary.
In order to pilot any vehicle, you should have at least 1 level in the relevant piloting skill (LAVs, HAVs, Marauders, Dropships).
If active modules are fitted that aren't totally skilled up to, those modules should be unable to be activated but passive ones should remain.
Hmm, I dunno actually... thinking about it, fitting a module to your own vehicle that you haven't skilled up to yet means you can't deploy that vehicle into the battlefield at all. Because of this I'm still tempted to say that to pilot a vehicle at all you need every required skill level for all modules and fittings (PG and CPU excluded). To call the vehicle in, you need to have built it first. If you've DESIGNED it, but aren't capable of actually getting the design to work, you can't call it in because it only exists as an incomplete concept. Once you've put it together, it's reasonable to hand the keys to someone else... unless they're a terrible driver. I like the idea of letting someone drive, but barring them from activating modules they aren't skilled into. That would be a good way to encourage someone to jump OUT of the driver's seat when they realise "but if I can't use that, I'm going to die!"
"Ohhhh a shiney vehicle I've never driven, but oh no! I don't see access to any modules, I'd better hop out" ~ No one ever
You know damn well every blueberry in the world would neither get the hint, nor abide to exit the vehicle if asked directly. They'll just try to derp around in it and watch the funny explosion. |
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Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
81
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Posted - 2013.03.07 21:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Nguruthos IX wrote:"Ohhhh a shiney vehicle I've never driven, but oh no! I don't see access to any modules, I'd better hop out" ~ No one ever
You know damn well every blueberry in the world would neither get the hint, nor abide to exit the vehicle if asked directly. They'll just try to derp around in it and watch the funny explosion. What if it was "Ohhh a shiny vehicle. Ooooh, modules.Why are they greyed out? Why can't I use this vehicle properly? It's stupid!" instead? Being shown a toy and not given the option to play with it makes noobs move on surprisingly often. They may end up rage-quitting the tank instead of moving to a (slightly) more useful gunner position, but it's still an improvement.
No because as far as they're concerned they don't know anything about vehicle mods and are more interested in simply testing the mechanics of say, flight. Which is great. Just not in my dropship. Buy your own and crash it 10x before you learn what you're doing.
Trust me, greyd modules would not deter use one bit. |
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