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Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.03 17:36:00 -
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Well? out with it!
The CPM is a highly disorganized group that is removed from the public #Dust514 channel to talk about more serious issues beyond Telc's cat from hell, ponies, and how bad newberries are. Though the issues discussed are things you may or may not expect. Such as purpose of corps in dust, roles, if Dust 514 had a CSM counter part how would the election be handed, the list goes on and on and its well beyond current game play frustrations.
It was originally started over the idea that Eve Online has its own player elected council and some players wanted to give Dust 514 players an equal voice in the matter of this game's development. After all we're the customers Devs should listen to us every so often and at least share where they are steering this game towards.
Well? Why are you guys a bunch of @#^@
Well not to use circular logic but the topic's own title gives away as to why we're not that good of a group. The group is having difficulty identifying itself as well as it is a collection as other people pointed out of over-inflated egos at time. The other mistake in the creation of the group was not including you guys, the forum lurkers/warriors. As it stands right now IRC group is working on version 5.0 of itself again... at least you guys on the forums are now included this time around.
Okay you fessed up you're horrible circle jerk; now what?
Captain Awesome finally secured a website and he's doing his best to get it up and running. Hopefully it will become a great one stop shop for all things Dust 514, training videos wiki, current issues and current politics in a very well refined manner.
I am also going to being bringing issues the 'CPM' has discussed and letting you guys weigh in on it, after all you're CPM members as well in the mean time until the website is up and running.
Hopefully in the future this job gets easier for me or can be handled by other individuals as the website gets up and online and all i have to do is forum lurk then to shove topics over there.
So now what? Our first two topics! We would like to see what you have to think about:
- A Dust 514 Player Elected Council
- The Volunteer community organization
The Offical Dust 514 Player Elected Council created by CCP Summary of what IRC has said so far about it.
Need & Timing:
- Some have argued it is far to early for CCP to be considering this after all the game is still in beta and woefully lacking features and we're just a bunch of console kiddies that would probably blow this whole idea off.
- The opposing view are arguing that the direction of the game is going the entirely wrong way and players need a bigger voice in game direction and feel that sooner the better in helping steer the game into the awesome game it was meant to be as to some it seems CCP doesn't have a clue on how to make FPS games.
1 or 2 Councils?
- One side suggests that there should be one council between both games (dust 514 and eve online) it was quickly pointed out that dust 514 voter base can easily crush eve's own voter base creating a dust 514 heavy majority or exclusivity.
- One council would however save the company much time and money only having 1 meeting and one set of flights and further promote the one universe one war idea and concrete it much better allowing a more seamless game universe experience.
- The binary group argues that having two councils would allow either elected group to focus more on its own game, increasing quality of either game.
- Binary group also states that an ambassador position can be made between the two councils so that they can cross perform functions and voice the other half of the universe in the meeting over possible bad ideas for either side such as the sticky case of ship boarding while a cool idea for most dust 514 players, the idea is abhorrent to most pvp'ers in Eve as it stands this very moment.
Voting, Nominations, White Papers? Another topic for another time.
The unofficial Dust 514 Player Volunteer Group created by the Community Function
- At odds every person so far has had a different idea on what it is, different names and directions and goals are not fully set.
- An an attempt to make goals was quickly devolved into importance of said goals.
- Social Champions declared that the volunteer group of the 'CPM' should focus on the community and its needs and making a more consistent place to be heard, organize thoughts, peer review and avoid having their issues entirely drowned out by constant daily forum whining.
- The Electorals argued that the CPM's primary function is to set and be prepared to help the official Elected Council get into place and make it easy to hit the ground running on day one by providing a wealth of well discussed issues, and potential solutions.
- While the social side agrees with helping CPMs get elected they disagree that it should be a primary function and that community outreach of the group is needed most now.
While this is all a quick summary to hopefully reduce some I would like to remind you to not talk to us as superiors, we are you guys and you need to talk to us as you do other posters here, we're in no shape way or form better than most of you. IRC is convenient because it allows on the spot thinking to be heard while the topic is hot. I apologize for getting these to you while they're cold but who says you cant throw a sword back into the fire to be tempered?
When the website gets online and this topic gets posted there, input here will be put into the extended report which will take every topic above and long list everything that's been said in a logical manner.
So have at it, throw a few rotten tomatoes if you have to, the IRC group deserves it for not driving bringing you guys aboard often enough. |
Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.03 18:04:00 -
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For those of you wondering where I stand for some of transparency.
Official Elected Council: I do feel Dust 514 does need a voice, however I think it shouldn't be a focus and more of something when CCP has breathing room to work with. Meanwhile all ahead forward for game development in the mean time. While the how going about giving dusters 514 a voice is been a rather interested conversation with others its one of the most convoluted ones as well.
As for the number of councils I am with the binary crowd and I was the one that suggested the ambassador role in allowing one seat to be swapped and they just report to their parent councils.
Unoffical Group: I was at first with the electoral crowd but as time progressed and animosity for the group increased I began thinking that maybe it should not be the focus and swapped to socialite focus. That community outreach and giving you guys a voice should be a more important goal.
Luckily I can confirm there is no 'barometer' and no voting block to keep people out of the IRC channel. As a channel moderator I will ask you though keep inter-corp politics and drama out other than that feel free to drop in at #DustCPM though www.coldfront.net/tiramisu/ |
Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.03 18:20:00 -
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Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:Its nice to see but i still think it's not an issue the community should be addressing. CCP will do it when the time is right and all this talk of multiple councils is just plain silly not to mention that a lot of this "CPM" was in place before the vast majority of the community was even aware of the CPM movement.
Unfortunately, hopefully the new direction will get you guys more involved. Maybe if we get enough posts we can convince Kain and others to stop trying to pre-electoral the group and focus more on the community. |
Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.03 18:33:00 -
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Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:Its nice to see but i still think it's not an issue the community should be addressing. CCP will do it when the time is right and all this talk of multiple councils is just plain silly not to mention that a lot of this "CPM" was in place before the vast majority of the community was even aware of the CPM movement. Unfortunately, hopefully the new direction will get you guys more involved. Maybe if we get enough posts we can convince Kain and others to stop trying to pre-electoral the group and focus more on the community. That's a little unreasonable, I've spoken to Kain at length about this subject recently, quite a bit today too as i'm obviously kicking the hornets nest somewhat today but still, i don't get the impression that he's trying to pre-elect anything at all and i'm sure he'll say that himself and be able to prove it i hope. I firmly believe that it's too early right now and that more than a single unified council is too much, why would we need 2 electoral bodys?
True opposing views is healthy for continued growth of opinions.... I just feel its harmful for the CPM to focus on that when the official thing is so far away now.
Well after reading all the CSM minutes I have to say that when the CSM meets with ccp for the meetings over future features CCP bounces the idea off them, the CSM is a nice collection of various egos from all walks of eve and are able to express the general player feel to the feature.
If we have one unified council and lets say for the first few years Eve side retains majority, how is this council going to know what is a good idea for dust 514 or not? Do they pve, corp wars, fw, conquest we don't know if the eve side players would have a good idea of how it will all work. I mean I am sure that as cool as full body avatars would be its something I dont want dust 514 to work on right now an eve online pilot csm if he's cluesless of the game may promote it or give positive feedback to green light it while we have a skeleton of a game right now.
My other eventual fear is that dust 514 side will eventually get fed up by being ruled by internet spaceship overlords and elect their own member seats and with more of us than eve pilots would probably be in the majority. In that end dust 514 players would probably go great amount of harm to the paying subscriber base of Eve Online.
Ideally we would have one council one day, but today isnt the day, maybe 5 -10 years from now where there is more equal footing of both universes and deeper need to understand each other to be successful. |
Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.03 18:58:00 -
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Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:That's just utter bollocks. Even if there's more of us than EVE players if there's only a single seat or even 3 for Dust players we won't out number them or whatever, there won't ever be a situation where there's more Dust voices on the CSM than EVE, that's just silly and the actual chances of that are tiny.
Especially with the new STV system!
Not to mention what i posted in Hunter Blakes thread about their only being a very small percentage of the community that will be able to vote Dust side assuming you have to pay for the privilege let along an even smaller percentage of the community that gives a **** about the politics and what goes on forumside/metagaming.
Yeah the previous voter turnouts for the CSM say anything only 10% seem to care about it at all. Most feel that its a useless organization.
There is of course the large number of alts that could suck with the population amount though however if one votes usually all the alts vote. |
Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.03 19:53:00 -
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Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:Even being seen as a legit community body means nothing unless CCP take steps to even allow Dust to have it's own council which i highly doubt they will simply from a cost point of view.
To fly 7 people to shanghai for 3 weeks a year and keep them their and then send them to iceland to meet the CSM is a massive expense and will take a lot of merc packs sold to even make it viable. It's a long ways off.
That I have to agree with for now. Right now CCP has to focus spending time and resources on making a better game to be complaining about by a council in the first place. |
Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.03 19:58:00 -
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Free Beers wrote:So here is the truth of what this all is.
"lets create rules to get ourselves elected to it"
For us in the community to even think about taking you seriously you need to list everyone to participated. Then they need to come into this thread and tell us they are doing this to run for a position.
I know some people in it and they have every intention of running for a spot. Nothnig like writing the election laws to get yourself elected.
I read the OP and until you can be seen as legit in the eyes of the community this is pointless.
/thread
Well just as much as you're ignoring me they're ignoring you with you /thread statement.
Maybe you should participate more.... oh wait you are, you're one of the reasons forum presence is increasing. Congratulations in shaping the CPM. |
Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.03 20:31:00 -
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The IRC CPM would like to apologize leaving you guys out.
Looking for Opinions on should Dust 514 have a CSM equivalent
[*] Asking what direction the community organization needs to go. |
Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.03 20:36:00 -
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Dexter Peabody wrote:Regardless of the intentions, anything resembling an advisory board should only be created by CCP when they feel the time is appropriate, if at all. If CCP felt that such an organization was necessary at this time, there already be one.
edit: whoops, put in an extra word
Well thats not the real point of the pre-group that the pre-group is trying to set up so that when the offical one ever where to start launching we would have all the infrastructure and resources to being running their campaigns, have a good outlet to make thier stands from and when the conversation does go though the ideas will be well worn tested and tried and though so that we can possibly have a very fair election, nomination process, and a clear idea on how this official elected council is going to function since in eve CSM that's what they do as well. |
Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.03 20:46:00 -
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Tiel Syysch wrote:Free Beers wrote:So here is the truth of what this all is.
"lets create rules to get ourselves elected to it"
For us in the community to even think about taking you seriously you need to list everyone to participated. Then they need to come into this thread and tell us they are doing this to run for a position.
I know some people in it and they have every intention of running for a spot. Nothnig like writing the election laws to get yourself elected.
I read the OP and until you can be seen as legit in the eyes of the community this is pointless.
/thread This is kind of my view of the whole thing as well. I'd rather CCP dictate what they want the group to be and do, because the community "volunteers" who are spearheading this thing, I can't see doing it as more than trying to make it so they're included in the official one.
Chances are none of us in the IRC channel would ever be running... Im the only likely future candidate but that's unlikely as I am really not that a well known person in Dust 514 and as much as I post here and love the game my passion and drive for the game is not as strong as other individuals here and its probably going to be one major factor compounded by the lack of time is why I may probably never run.
Kain is the only other possible future potential as well I can see in the channel at the moment but there is always a chance for others.
Black Jackal is the only person in the channel actively running for eve side CSM.
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Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.03 20:50:00 -
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Mithridates VI wrote:Can we plz to have a CPM whose political struggles (even to the point of naming specific parties but not others, which seems sloppily tactical) don't leak through into their introduction to the forum?
Having a schism in your organisation which can be expressed by Capitalised Titles and advertising the failure to agree on anything makes the DUST CPM seem about as much of a cohesive entity as the #dust514 channel.
By your intro post (was this the result of discussion with the rest of the group?) it seems less like an emergent discussion group and more like an attempt at asserting and advertising the positions of individual egos in the community (not to cast any aspersions on the membership, I'm sure some are involved because they're optimistic about the potential the idea has).
I'm interested because I'd like to be involved in discussions about the development of the game but I'm sceptical about the current function and future usefulness of this particular attempt.
Which is why we're on our 5th re-invention. Still trying to find a point to focus and get anchored on so the rest of the organization can get rolling. |
Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.03 21:27:00 -
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Mithridates VI wrote:Questions that randoms who come across this thread might have, which I don't feel have been fully covered in the OP.
- What does CPM stand for?
- Disregarding contested elements, what is the group's stated function?
- Things like discussions over corp roles in DUST. If you're not an officially recognised group, what are these discussions but the same sort of speculation as already takes place on the forums and in the main IRC?
- Why should any of you be trusted with the development of the future council?
Captain Awsome thought it was a good idea to not call the dust csm the same thing so he suggested Council Of Planetary Management.
However due to recent turmoil in the group. The name may be changing again or not... I suggested Community of Planetary Mercenaries but he changed it back after somone counter argued that... so not sure where that is right now.
As for question 2 its a work in progress, I am pushing for a social community portal Captain Awsome is with me on this one as well as Telc.
Question 3. Basically they're 'higher' level discussion that goes into the nuts and bolts of everything working and not working, our main job is to tear everyone's idea apart until we come to a good viable conclusion on how it should go between all the opponents. For example Fan Fest idea I suggested was mauled a short bit but eventually everyone agreed it was a good idea in the end and pushed it forward.
Question 4, you shouldn't that's why I am asking everyone who is interested to join to give fair voice for everything. |
Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.03 22:18:00 -
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Kiso Okami wrote:I've been the the IRC often recently, and I really can't say that I have even the most remote idea of who is members of this "CPM", and honestly, the is fine by me since that means I have no biased pre-conceptions for or against any of you (not that I am not for neutrality even at my own expense). I do have to say one thing...
If you guys want to re-invent your little club, how about you start by giving yourselves a name that actually doesn't feel so constrained and unoriginal. CPM (Council of Planetary Management), to me sounds very much like a rip-off name, as if it didn't take 3 second to come up with based on the idea already established by its inspiring organization, the CSM. Once you get past that, your reinvention might actually have some meaning, because you would actually look to have a name that actually makes you feel like you put effort into coming up with.
So, you get yourselves called "CPM", but what happens if (when?) DUST mercs suddenly start going to battle outside of planets (there's a huge thread with ideas involving battling inside space ships, space stations, wormhole space, etc)? Suddenly your name's meaning is worth nothing. There's also the fact that CSM as it stands covers pretty much planet interaction.
I am pretty sure I've said this over at IRC, but I honestly feel that this needs repeating. More over, I'm not saying this just because I don't like the name and all that, I also say it because I'd like to think from a lore point of view, and "lore" names that are different are far easier to remember.
I remember mentioning that, instead of using initialisms for the DUST council, one could use Acronyms. One could use an acronym that can be read as a one-syllable word (PIE) or even two syllables (CONCORD). I remember mentioning a few of these, altho somewhat in jest, but also with more emphasis on the individual rather than the whole...
MACH (Military/Mercenary Association of Cloned Humans) - This name is all about the DUST clone, their rules of engagement and the standardization of their equipment, treatment among other things. It's also a pun on the speed measures unit, which was meant as a representation of how fast I envisioned this group to be in acting upon the needs of those they sought to represent. Finally, it's a one-syllable word that rolls off the tongue, simple and elegant.
But that's just an example, and not necessarily something that you should consider ultimately, but would actually earn my respect if you do...
As for the actual topic...
I really don't care if the CSM and this organization end up being one entity or if they end up being two separate ones. I just want to have CCP understand that when something is wrong or inapropriate, it needs to be changed for the better.
AS for matters of election... well... that's not really for you or me to decide I guess. I'm certain CCP can figure this one out thmselves. But I think there has to be at least some discussion in finding ways to prevent "alt stacking" for council votes on DUST positions.
I am not the only guy running the shot there naming convention isn't really up to me to name it, I can throw a bunch of names out more appropirate but once again I am not the only guy in that channel at #DustCPM, though most of the current members are also logged on and are the active talkers in #DustIRC.
I will try to raise the topic again in IRC when they're back in session and point your post out since your post is much better at explaining the naming issues more than I could.
As for your second issue its also a valid point and the irc channel has been beating the voting thing to a stalemate where we're left with having to segregate the freebies from the non freebies or wind up with alts galore. So far technically it dose not seem possible to separate accounts either. Ill leave that for another topic later on though.
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Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.03 22:34:00 -
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Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:Who the hell is Cpt Awesome anyway and why have i never heard of him?...
The guy who corralled me and others into the channel, I don't think he plays much though due to his job, however so far hes building a website and is doing a decent job of it and you can basically call him the founder and one of the more reserved voices of the group.
Captain Awesome is probably going to skin me for this since its a work in progress and not done.
http://cpm.neweden.co/ |
Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.03 22:35:00 -
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Beld Errmon wrote:Heh the self appointed leaders of dust requirement to rule: know how to use IRC and slap people with trout. It all resembles a pack of old church hags getting together and electing a president of the decoration committee, oh I do hope Martha's roses are ready for Berthas funeral this saturday.... oh I know. Oh I know
Wait where having an election? since when? |
Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.03 22:37:00 -
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Nova Knife wrote:I'm in this channel, but I don't consider myself a part of this. I'm just keeping an eye on things.
(Because I'm a total information monger)
Honestly? I think that the gun has been jumped on this thing time and again.
When you ask them why they are there and what they are doing, the 3-4 people directly involved will all give you completely different answers. As admirable as Ironwolf's efforts are to keep the forums up to speed.. There's really nothing to bring people up to speed with until you even know what your group is even about.
There's been a half dozen posts and threads mentioning the CPM before now, and pretty much all of them painted it in a completely different picture than the last.
I originally joined the channel because I was told the goal was to allow people who wanted to establish themselves in the community, to help them get known if they were to ever run for CSM or whatever and I was curious who'd show up even if I had my doubts about its success. (Also to log everything they say, because I'm an infomonger)
Later, it was being spread that the purpose was to actually eventually become the official CSM.
Also being said, was that is was just a place for serious talks without the usual banter/trolling of the standard IRC channel to give higher quality feedback.
I'm still not entirely convinced the people involved in this have agreed on what they're even doing, so IMO it's far too early to be making a post like this.
Probably because there is no leadership is the reason why its going 80 different directions. |
Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.03 22:45:00 -
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Mithridates VI wrote:I find that naming yourselves after the CSM gives me an impression of feigned legitimacy which is hard to look past.
Your raison d'+Žtre appears to be "helping to establish an actual council in the future"; a goal which could be satisfied just as well without wearing the council costume or declaring yourselves pre-council.
Starting a thread to say "we've established a group but we can't agree on what our purpose is" suggests that you're doing things backwards. The correct order of activities is to find like-minded fellows who share your aims and THEN start a group...
Sustaining an organisation at the cost of that organisation's cause is already a trap which a group can fall into. This seems even more of a danger when that organisation exists for its own sake before it even has a cause.
Your right which is why the group is at a cross roads on trying to figure out what the hard set goals are and that was the big argument on Friday before end of session. |
Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.03 23:35:00 -
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Samahiel wrote:Kain Spero wrote: I understand where you are coming from, but Beta may end this summer.
I would rather be proactive then have a t20 incident occur to force the issue. The FPS community moves far to fast to survive something like that.
The biggest impediment to a new T20 was CCP's changes to the Internal Affairs division, not the introduction of the CSM. A better example would be the Jump Bridge nerf since that was the kind of sweeping game design mistakes we're worried about. And I'll remind you that happened at the instigation of an immature, unrepresentative, and unprepared CSM.
Proof that a bad council can be just as bad as bad developer decisions. |
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Posted - 2013.03.04 00:01:00 -
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Nova Knife wrote:Kain Spero wrote:
I would rather be proactive then have a t20 incident occur to force the issue. The FPS community moves far to fast to survive something like that.
TBH, Another t20 issue wouldn't force anything. Contrary to what some people say... The Eve CSM isn't a watchdog organization. They're a crowdsourcing feedback method. The implication of the CSM as a watchdog agency is a token PR gesture at best in response to a situation they were not really prepared to deal with. The real watchdog is CCP Interal Affairs, who now perform audits on a regular basis of all employee's activity on their dev and personal characters.. Last I heard, they full on delete any personal characters of a CCP employee if it becomes known to players that they work for CCP. (Though I'm not certain of that) Something like t20 simply could not happen, and even if it did, CCP has systems in place to make it a relative nonissue aside from the relatively brief forum drama during which CCP says "Yeah some stuff happened, and we took action and removed all assets/gains related to whatever it was that happened, and are looking into further actions if necessary" A stakeholder isn't meant to be a watchdog, it's meant to be a party with a direct interest in the success of a product. Implying the need for a watchdog essentially implies that CCP needs to be (or is vulnerable to being) bullied into action.
Hence the IA laser sniper kill team jokes ccp makes in irc. |
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Posted - 2013.03.04 13:31:00 -
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Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:Cpt awesome needs to come to this thread and explain his actions to the community if he's the instigator behind all this.
Where are you cpt awesome? Why the silence? Come and answer my questions.
Ill drag him in here, hes not on during the weekends. |
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Posted - 2013.03.04 21:38:00 -
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Samahiel wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Samahiel wrote:Kain Spero wrote: I understand where you are coming from, but Beta may end this summer.
I would rather be proactive then have a t20 incident occur to force the issue. The FPS community moves far to fast to survive something like that.
The biggest impediment to a new T20 was CCP's changes to the Internal Affairs division, not the introduction of the CSM. A better example would be the Jump Bridge nerf since that was the kind of sweeping game design mistakes we're worried about. And I'll remind you that happened at the instigation of an immature, unrepresentative, and unprepared CSM. Proof that a bad council can be just as bad as bad developer decisions. And this movement is laying the foundation for a bad council. Though I'm not terribly worried because CCP will ignore it for all the reasons my corpmate so eloquently stated above.
Problem is that this is the fifth time a group like this has risen from the ashes of the last one. This is going to be one stubborn phoenix and its light is not going to be stomped out that easily. Ruffling and plucking off the feathers likely but I highly doubt that a total failure of the entire group's agenda is going to be possible. |
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Posted - 2013.03.04 21:38:00 -
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Laurent Cazaderon wrote:CPM is both from IRC and an ego fest and i wasnt invited in ? Jerks !
you're invited :D Everyone's officially invited! |
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Posted - 2013.03.04 22:18:00 -
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Mithridates VI wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:he entire group's agenda The entire group seems to disagree on whether it even exists and, if it does, what its agenda is.
That's true too. |
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Posted - 2013.03.05 20:55:00 -
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I would like to tank Captain Awsome for taking the time to post in a more consistent matter than I could have ever managed.
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Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.05 23:43:00 -
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Leither Yiltron wrote:Captain-Awesome wrote:
5. public opinion of it is that it's a bunch of people that want a cool kids club I think if that ever happens to be true, it will fail.
It is and it has. Your entire "endeavor" is the product of a group of people getting swelled heads and completely failing to understand the key issues with Dust's development at the moment from a community standpoint. If you want to create a fan site and an IRC channel that produces editorials and provides a place for conversation respectively, you're completely free to do so. We call that a "news site" (themittani.com) or a "community project" (#dust514). What you're not going to be able to do is create a "Council" of anything. It's nothing less than almost unanimous public opinion that the timing isn't right for CCP to launch a Dust equivalent of the CSM. Without a voting process, no "Council" has the public legitimacy to match that group's functionality in any capacity. Trying to do so is wasting your time.The real Dust community could use you Captain, and the others in that channel, down in the trenches working to get CCP to realize the real issues in Dust 514. Things like the lack of persistence, lack of content, the need for a market, expanded corporate management, and a suite of other things. Instead, you're just like The Black Jackel: wasting your time trying to do something that has no chance of succeeding its "aims". Why do you think Immobile Infantry, Subdreddit, Dust Uni, PRO, GAC, 843, Zion, and many other large Dust communities aren't represented in your project? I can answer: Because they're actually off accomplishing both in-game management and community management goals within their own organizations. With the people that they trust. That's what you should be doing as well. Look at that list of characters. 4 Imperfects guys. This is just an extension of IMP's persistent and barely constructive forum spam. If you want respect and you want to accomplish something in the community, go mobilize IMP's to do something worthwhile with their forum time, rather than constantly barfing onto the front page. Make a community site and post editorials and blogs. Do something actually constructive. But above all, deflate your ego and try to consult some of the facts. When Cerebral Wolf Jr is talking sense instead of of trolling and you're not seeing it, there's something deeply wrong with your core idea.
Well what's stopping you from joining? just because they're imperfects does not mean you shouldn't join. If anything they should be the reason to join because you don't want their own voice to be over yours.
As one person puts it, Evil Triumphs if good people do nothing... Democracy fails when voters do nothing to stop dictators... Your opinion goes unheard if you never speak... So either nut up or shut up. |
Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.06 01:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Leither Yiltron wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Leither Yiltron wrote:Captain-Awesome wrote:
5. public opinion of it is that it's a bunch of people that want a cool kids club I think if that ever happens to be true, it will fail.
It is and it has. Your entire "endeavor" is the product of a group of people getting swelled heads and completely failing to understand the key issues with Dust's development at the moment from a community standpoint. If you want to create a fan site and an IRC channel that produces editorials and provides a place for conversation respectively, you're completely free to do so. We call that a "news site" (themittani.com) or a "community project" (#dust514). What you're not going to be able to do is create a "Council" of anything. It's nothing less than almost unanimous public opinion that the timing isn't right for CCP to launch a Dust equivalent of the CSM. Without a voting process, no "Council" has the public legitimacy to match that group's functionality in any capacity. Trying to do so is wasting your time.The real Dust community could use you Captain, and the others in that channel, down in the trenches working to get CCP to realize the real issues in Dust 514. Things like the lack of persistence, lack of content, the need for a market, expanded corporate management, and a suite of other things. Instead, you're just like The Black Jackel: wasting your time trying to do something that has no chance of succeeding its "aims". Why do you think Immobile Infantry, Subdreddit, Dust Uni, PRO, GAC, 843, Zion, and many other large Dust communities aren't represented in your project? I can answer: Because they're actually off accomplishing both in-game management and community management goals within their own organizations. With the people that they trust. That's what you should be doing as well. Look at that list of characters. 4 Imperfects guys. This is just an extension of IMP's persistent and barely constructive forum spam. If you want respect and you want to accomplish something in the community, go mobilize IMP's to do something worthwhile with their forum time, rather than constantly barfing onto the front page. Make a community site and post editorials and blogs. Do something actually constructive. But above all, deflate your ego and try to consult some of the facts. When Cerebral Wolf Jr is talking sense instead of of trolling and you're not seeing it, there's something deeply wrong with your core idea. Well what's stopping you from joining?. The same thing stopping all the rational people from joining - better things to do with my time. It's my sincere hope that you guys can go back to your constituent groups and mobilize their community efforts. Those guys trust and know you. That's the key to actually getting your opinions expressed and conveyed to CCP in a way that makes them realize that more than 3 guys have the same opinion.
... Sorry but the people who know me the best are you forum posters...
Betamax. just babysits me and gives me things to do and test and wish no ill will towards, don't make me join another corp I will burn it to the ground. |
Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.07 15:01:00 -
[27] - Quote
Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:That's probably for the best, anything with command or council etc in it will be taken as an attempt at trying to create something luke the csm.
luke? lurk? lark? like?
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Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.07 15:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jaiden Longshot wrote:It sounds to me like you guys are already doing what you intended to do by getting together and discussing the game.
Why do you need a name if you don't have an agenda? Why not just keep meeting, theorycrafting and talking about the game without making a forum post annointing yourselves as a council?
If you think the forum signal to noise ration is too bad to get your point across then simply email the Dust 514 team with your ideas and concerns.
***The one thing you want to avoid, IMO, is insinuating that you represent the majority community opinion in some way.
This is why I posted the thread too. |
Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.07 15:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:I think its about time CCP weighed in on this... Until CCP says anything on this matter the whole 'CPM' is a pipe dream As it is now the 'CPM' in my eyes is made up of ppl who mainly want more power and to change DUST to suit them and the corps that they represent They may yap about things in the IRC with devs and say 'we are helping the game' when in fact it was proved that the IRC is run by an individual for ther own gain and to inflate that ego a bit more with the promise of more power later on like a seat on the CPM Have a different view in the IRC and you get banned, or they just mute everyone so only certain questions are asked so you might aswell be banned, you have no voice if you are outside of the club We dont even have the list of representatives in this 'CPM' No one knows who they really are and what they stand for, they are hoping that when CCP finally decide to get involved that the 'CPM' looks organized and official enough that they all get places at the table As it is now CCP would be best to leave it and deal with it themselves at a later date
it was posted a page or two back captain awsome listed all the current people in channel. There is no password and anyone reasonable is allowed in. |
Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.07 15:56:00 -
[30] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:it was posted a page or two back captain awsome listed all the current people in channel. There is no password and anyone reasonable is allowed in. Just give it up now. You theory crafting from a few will never be accepted by the community.
Beers perfect the example of a fan boy elitist. Its his views or nobody's views.
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Iron Wolf Saber
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Posted - 2013.03.07 16:01:00 -
[31] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:I think its about time CCP weighed in on this... Until CCP says anything on this matter the whole 'CPM' is a pipe dream As it is now the 'CPM' in my eyes is made up of ppl who mainly want more power and to change DUST to suit them and the corps that they represent They may yap about things in the IRC with devs and say 'we are helping the game' when in fact it was proved that the IRC is run by an individual for ther own gain and to inflate that ego a bit more with the promise of more power later on like a seat on the CPM Have a different view in the IRC and you get banned, or they just mute everyone so only certain questions are asked so you might aswell be banned, you have no voice if you are outside of the club We dont even have the list of representatives in this 'CPM' No one knows who they really are and what they stand for, they are hoping that when CCP finally decide to get involved that the 'CPM' looks organized and official enough that they all get places at the table As it is now CCP would be best to leave it and deal with it themselves at a later date it was posted a page or two back captain awsome listed all the current people in channel. There is no password and anyone reasonable is allowed in. Hm yea i dont believe you If you dont agree with the club you get kicked and banned from the clubhouse and its happened already a few times Also half of that list is in some way associated with IMPS, other half is ppl i have never heard of at all and why is that? its because they dont post on the official CCP forums and a couple of other ppl are only ther to inflate ther ego and get something for themselves So a 'Council' which happens to be run by one alliance with maybe a few ppl who are also in it for themselves with a few other names that no one has ever heard of The 'CPM' needs shutting down and for CCP to take control of it
Proof or STFU. Current ban lists on #dust514 channel and #dustcpm channel are empty.
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