DUST Search - level 3 prototype

Logi Bro wrote:

crazy space 1 wrote:

Sloth9230 wrote:

Aurum allows you to do more faster.

No, Aurum is now letting players skip the isk requirements to replace losses.

Logi Bro wrote:

...Well, since you've spent so much time leveling your character (you said as much in your post) then you can use the level 5 proto suits, right? So it's not really pay to win if you can compete with them at their level.

When CCP releases tech-2 and makes it AUR only you can come back and say I told you so.

you are also ignoring how this lets people play without isk. While I lose my level 5 dropsuits that took me so long to get for isk, I take huge loses. However 160AuR is stupidly cheap, it's not even in line with the rest of the items isk/Aur wise.

You fail to see my point. You are saying these neo vk.1 suits are a benefit economically and allow you to forgo ISK, and I'm not arguing that.
I am saying that the definition of P2W is paying to win, and not paying to not use in-game currency. You can get anything with ISK that you can get with AUR, so not P2W.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
THE-C-O-B-R-A Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.03.02 19:23:00 - [1] - Quote Well it appears our worst fears have come to pass, this "free to play" game has officially become "pay to win", seriously CCP? we work hard to develop our characters, hours of playing, earning "Controlled Bonus Points" (SP) and you now allow us to buy a proto so easily? All of a sudden black suits are running rampant on the battlefield, shame shame CCP. I am so curious to see whats next. I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS,
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.03.02 19:26:00 - [2] - Quote ...Well, since you've spent so much time leveling your character (you said as much in your post) then you can use the level 5 proto suits, right? So it's not really pay to win if you can compete with them at their level. When CCP releases tech-2 and makes it AUR only you can come back and say I told you so.
EternalRMG ZionTCD Legacy Rising 235	Posted - 2013.03.02 19:27:00 - [3] - Quote They should raise the skills requirement to lvl 4
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 298	Posted - 2013.03.02 19:29:00 - [4] - Quote Aurum allows you to do more faster.
crazy space 1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 898	Posted - 2013.03.02 19:31:00 - [5] - Quote 100% agree. Making them cost equal amounts isk as prototype + Aur would make them not pay to win.
crazy space 1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 898	Posted - 2013.03.02 19:32:00 - [6] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Aurum allows you to do more faster. No, Aurum is now letting players skip the isk requirements to replace losses. Logi Bro wrote: ...Well, since you've spent so much time leveling your character (you said as much in your post) then you can use the level 5 proto suits, right? So it's not really pay to win if you can compete with them at their level. When CCP releases tech-2 and makes it AUR only you can come back and say I told you so. you are also ignoring how this lets people play without isk. While I lose my level 5 dropsuits that took me so long to get for isk, I take huge loses. However 160AuR is stupidly cheap, it's not even in line with the rest of the items isk/Aur wise.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming 692	Posted - 2013.03.02 19:40:00 - [7] - Quote They really should have it at lvl 4 though. lvl 3 is a little too early.
crazy space 1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 898	Posted - 2013.03.02 19:41:00 - [8] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: They really should have it at lvl 4 though. lvl 3 is a little too early. This would also help a ton. Considering match making is based on total sp, this means people with less sp are using protogear in insta matche, how is that not pay to win ?
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 211	Posted - 2013.03.02 19:43:00 - [9] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: They really should have it at lvl 4 though. lvl 3 is a little too early. Agreed. For those who have the $$$ to drop, and dont care about the vk1, this allows them to use 2M sp into other areas. But yeah, id say make it lv4 as well lance
THE-C-O-B-R-A Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2013.03.02 19:45:00 - [10] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: ...Well, since you've spent so much time leveling your character (you said as much in your post) then you can use the level 5 proto suits, right? So it's not really pay to win if you can compete with them at their level. When CCP releases tech-2 and makes it AUR only you can come back and say I told you so. Thats not the point, proto's have always been the elite suits, why make the so easy to get? doesn't that make sense? It is one of the items that should be a challenge to acquire.

Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.03.02 19:45:00 - [11] - Quote crazy space 1 wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Aurum allows you to do more faster. No, Aurum is now letting players skip the isk requirements to replace losses. Logi Bro wrote: ...Well, since you've spent so much time leveling your character (you said as much in your post) then you can use the level 5 proto suits, right? So it's not really pay to win if you can compete with them at their level. When CCP releases tech-2 and makes it AUR only you can come back and say I told you so. you are also ignoring how this lets people play without isk. While I lose my level 5 dropsuits that took me so long to get for isk, I take huge loses. However 160AuR is stupidly cheap, it's not even in line with the rest of the items isk/Aur wise. You fail to see my point. You are saying these neo vk.1 suits are a benefit economically and allow you to forgo ISK, and I'm not arguing that. I am saying that the definition of P2W is paying to win, and not paying to not use in-game currency. You can get anything with ISK that you can get with AUR, so not P2W.
Veritas Vitae Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 36	Posted - 2013.03.02 19:48:00 - [12] - Quote I'd rather farm ISK in pubs and buy proto suits that way than waste money (AUR) on fake ones, which are only vk0s anyways. vk1 > vk0 all day every day. Besides, I like watching someone in aur proto lose a dollar every match, while I only lose a little ISK.
KryptixX Imperfects Negative-Feedback 331	Posted - 2013.03.02 19:55:00 - [13] - Quote THE-C-O-B-R-A wrote: Logi Bro wrote: ...Well, since you've spent so much time leveling your character (you said as much in your post) then you can use the level 5 proto suits, right? So it's not really pay to win if you can compete with them at their level. When CCP releases tech-2 and makes it AUR only you can come back and say I told you so. Thats not the point, proto's have always been the elite suits, why make the so easy to get? doesn't that make sense? It is one of the items that should be a challenge to acquire. That is the thing, they are not elite suits. Maybe right now they are but they won't be forever. It is more so players can try a suit first before investing a million or so SP. All other items have and now dropsuits.
THE-C-O-B-R-A Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2013.03.02 19:55:00 - [14] - Quote THE-C-O-B-R-A wrote: Well it appears our worst fears have come to pass, this "free to play" game has officially become "pay to win", seriously CCP? we work hard to develop our characters, hours of playing, earning "Controlled Bonus Points" (SP) and you now allow us to buy a proto so easily? All of a sudden black suits are running rampant on the battlefield, shame shame CCP. I am so curious to see whats next. Maybe we should determine what pay 2 win really means to the average merc, I myself think that if I can advance my character using Arum instead of earned SP (which by the way has a cap) then I would say that I am paying to win bypassing the hard earned SP (which by the way has a cap) I don't see a cap put on Arum do you? lmao I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS,

GM Vegas Game Masters C C P Alliance 322	Posted - 2013.03.02 19:56:00 - [15] - Quote Moving this to the feedback section.

Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 300	Posted - 2013.03.02 19:58:00 - [16] - Quote crazy space 1 wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Aurum allows you to do more faster. No, Aurum is now letting players skip the isk requirements to replace losses. . I can grind ambush matches for ISK, all they're doing is replacing time with money. "Time is money", remember?
Dominus Fatali Nox Aeterna Security 34	Posted - 2013.03.02 20:08:00 - [17] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Aurum allows you to do more faster. Please visit your local marketplace kiosk for more information.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 897	Posted - 2013.03.02 20:46:00 - [18] - Quote Proto suits should be unlocked at lvl 5. but on the flip side...I like that players have purchased them early and are using them in pub matches. Because when they die, that means more ISK rewards at the end of the game. So...ball out people :D
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 275	Posted - 2013.03.02 20:47:00 - [19] - Quote I originally felt this way but honestly; meh. Outside of the logi all the vk.0 are crap and at best provide a 4-6 week jump over another player of equal SP. That said it still may be prudent to either raise the price and keep at current level Or make it so its DS 4 which is only 696K SP more than lvl 3 but thats a good solid week and 1-2 days more delay on someone running booster. longer on someone not.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 26	Posted - 2013.03.02 21:02:00 - [20] - Quote I'm okay with the AUR prototype suits on the condition that CCP finally fixes the matchmaking. It doesn't make much sense having guys in AUR proto gear stomp on new players in MLT suits. You're just widening the gap between the vets and new players and therefor making fair matchmaking more difficult to achieve.

DeathStalker Synchro D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 24	Posted - 2013.03.02 22:30:00 - [21] - Quote THE-C-O-B-R-A wrote: Logi Bro wrote: ...Well, since you've spent so much time leveling your character (you said as much in your post) then you can use the level 5 proto suits, right? So it's not really pay to win if you can compete with them at their level. When CCP releases tech-2 and makes it AUR only you can come back and say I told you so. Thats not the point, proto's have always been the elite suits, why make the so easy to get? doesn't that make sense? It is one of the items that should be a challenge to acquire. Totally agree. This should require pure skill. The getting prototype anything should be a challenge without shortcuts. Though, it's very unlikely CCP will remove the Aurum prototypes so the level requirement needs to be pushed up to level 4.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 285	Posted - 2013.03.02 23:09:00 - [22] - Quote Seeing those glowing eyes from the shadows of the war barge used to mean something.
crazy space 1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 901	Posted - 2013.03.03 09:29:00 - [23] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: crazy space 1 wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Aurum allows you to do more faster. No, Aurum is now letting players skip the isk requirements to replace losses. . I can grind ambush matches for ISK, all they're doing is replacing time with money. "Time is money", remember? But one day every item being sold for isk will be player created, Aur bypasses that. It needs to e held to lower tier gear, nothing above advanced or playermade items will be no stronger than something people can buy for money and the ruins the whole point of a real world economy By making the Aur upgrades something players use to create items to then less for isk, Aur is still spent, but isk and manufacturing still come into play. This is important for the long term goals of this game.
crazy space 1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 901	Posted - 2013.03.03 09:32:00 - [24] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: crazy space 1 wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Aurum allows you to do more faster. No, Aurum is now letting players skip the isk requirements to replace losses. Logi Bro wrote: ...Well, since you've spent so much time leveling your character (you said as much in your post) then you can use the level 5 proto suits, right? So it's not really pay to win if you can compete with them at their level. When CCP releases tech-2 and makes it AUR only you can come back and say I told you so. you are also ignoring how this lets people play without isk. While I lose my level 5 dropsuits that took me so long to get for isk, I take huge loses. However 160AuR is stupidly cheap, it's not even in line with the rest of the items isk/Aur wise. You fail to see my point. You are saying these neo vk.1 suits are a benefit economically and allow you to forgo ISK, and I'm not arguing that. I am saying that the definition of P2W is paying to win, and not paying to not use in-game currency. You can get anything with ISK that you can get with AUR, so not P2W. well that opens a whole new can of beans. If we put AUR version of a piece of gear, the AUR not sets the isk price. For instance, 300,000 isk for the Prototype Heavy BUT only 180 AUR for the same items that only needs level 3 instead of 5. Well other items that cost 40 AUR only cost 4,000 isk. So now the whole AUR isk rate is balls crazzy, and the AUR version needs up on the market for less isk than the prototype, and the protoheavy is never used becuase the AUR version is cheaper on the market for isk.
madd greazy OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 27	Posted - 2013.03.03 11:13:00 - [25] - Quote Let me get this straight? You guys are complaining about how instead of losing game money (ISK) on a death, you can lose real money (AUR) instead? wait, wait but your hard earned game money isn't more, "hard earned" than someone else's real money? I quote "Aurum allows you to do more faster", as in oh i don't know... give you early access too in-game content? The worst part is, is that every one of you whiner's probably payed aurum to get active/passive boosters, and that is the only reason you have a proto suit/weapon... so what then, is the difference between using your aurum for boosted SP to gain early access to items, when someone else uses the SP for the item instead of the faster SP gain? the answer is, there is no difference. Anyone whining about this, who has spent aurum themselves should stop being a hypocrite, it's bad character.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 20	Posted - 2013.03.03 11:56:00 - [26] - Quote What the actual? Are we really complaining that it isn't fair for people to use their real money to get a headstart? Are you kidding or what? I understand that some people have more money than others, but you are not being excluded for NOT buying something with AUR, you just have to wait longer and work harder in the game instead of real life. Fork over the beans or quit whining.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 286	Posted - 2013.03.03 18:09:00 - [27] - Quote RINON114 wrote: What the actual? Are we really complaining that it isn't fair for people to use their real money to get a headstart? Are you kidding or what? I understand that some people have more money than others, but you are not being excluded for NOT buying something with AUR, you just have to wait longer and work harder in the game instead of real life. Fork over the beans or quit whining. Edit: FYI as well, I haven't bought anything at all with Aurum, but I will once the game is released or when it is worth spending money on, aka when it isn't broke as hell. The complaint is that this particular instance goes too far. The proto suit is a badge of honour; it's the single biggest sp expense for an infantry player and shows their experience and commitment to the game. Anyone can get a duvolle, but it takes patience & dedication to save up more than a million sp.
Alderstaz Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2013.03.03 19:02:00 - [28] - Quote What is Pay to Win, are items that do not have equivalent Isk versions, or are best versions of Isk variant. A hand full of pennies for an HAV that pretty much guarantees the match right now, that too. Luckily that's not there. Example, the best TAC AR available, the Aur version uses less CPU/PG. One Drop Link variant has the Aur version as best version.(pretty sure, remembering it was one of the equipment items, and I haven't actually looked for all, I know these by accident) That is P2W, you pay money to get advantage only available to Aur players. That's why I'm not in corp, its pay to win right now. Don't expect game to last. The rest isn't 100% cut and dry to me. Eventually you'll be fighting proto suits, they are actually seeding the market, because they are increasing payouts in matches. If everyone was doing it, that would be another story. The game won't be viable if new players have to pay a bunch of extra cash to get caught up when game is out for a year. I expect cha
Nexus Tau Nox Aeterna Security 26	Posted - 2013.03.03 19:05:00 - [29] - Quote THE-C-O-B-R-A wrote: Well it appears our worst fears have come to pass, this "free to play" game has officially become "pay to win", seriously CCP? we work hard to develop our characters, hours of playing, earning "Controlled Bonus Points" (SP) and you now allow us to buy a proto so easily? All of a sudden black suits are running rampant on the battlefield, shame shame CCP. I am so curious to see whats next. I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS, Says the guy I see in aur proto suits
IRuby Heart DIOS EX. 378	Posted - 2013.03.03 20:24:00 - [30] - Quote I didn't know getting my protosuit before you do is pay to win, I thought I was just using my "Aurum to do more faster". People have such a narrow minded view on things. Fact is, in only 1-2 weeks time, If you skill up and stop QQing, you too can get a protosuit without having to pay with real money. I know it's amazing. Meanwhile I support all the guys buying protosuits, CCP needs the money to make a better game.

Chojine Dentetsu Academy Inferno 2	Posted - 2013.03.15 17:33:00 - [31] - Quote What people seem to forget when referencing how the AUR cost of weapons will eventually effect in player market, is the fact that the players will set the accepted pricing through average sales prices and a 'value for money 'ISK' belief'. This is as true for any economy, not just in an MMO. Also, if people want to pay to wear prototype gear early, so be it, as they are not at a high enough SP sink to wear the ISK versions, i'd hazard a guess that their entire skill set isn't as good as a player in an ISK prototype suit. The fact is, even though being killed by an AUR suit wearing player may be somewhat annoying, they only have a certain amount of their suits before they run out and either A. Buy more, which I can imagine would start to hurt the bank, or B. Chock it up to experience and focus on getting to the ISK bought gear. Just let them enjoy their 'paid for' equipment, and smile inside at the knowledge that when their stocks run dry you'll poon them :).
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Orion Empire 42	Posted - 2013.03.15 18:23:00 - [32] - Quote they can pay for the suits, I'll use skill points for it lol. I've never needed proto suits to kill proto's so don't really care.


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